A Batch of Clones in Rockwool

Al B. Fuct said:

yeah, drop the pump in a knee-hi nylon stocking. Good enough. Check often if there's enough debris around to plug the filter.

Nylon stocking material is a pretty good all-purpose air & water filter for particulates down to about .01mm.

Tell the gf you want her old stockings (mind the ones with really bad runs, they go in the bin).... but it's not because you're a chair sniffer or anything...

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Niice.. thanks.. there are three trays already acquired of the Jiffy cube things.. in all it cost $0.09 per jiffy cube (including the two trays and lids).

That was a steal in my opinion.. I think I will just have to get a nice pump with a nice filter and put plenty of clay pebbles around it in 3" pots.

The plan is a monthly harvest with two rubbermaid/sterlite opaque tubs with aero sprayers. Two rez's, two pumps, running 24/7.



Thanks again Guru,

E

well, hope it goes OK.

I do have to say that I CRINGE every time someone calls me 'guru,' etc. I fuck it up OFTEN. I am faaaaaaaaar from perfect.

I can call you Eddie, and Eddie, when you call me, you can call me Al.

Al B. Fuct said:

well, hope it goes OK.

I do have to say that I CRINGE every time someone calls me 'guru,' etc. I fuck it up OFTEN. I am faaaaaaaaar from perfect.

I can call you Eddie, and Eddie, when you call me, you can call me Al.

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Haha, I hear ya. We all live and learn.. it is just that I look at your perpetual op.. and my itty-bitty tent..

You cut clones every week, with great success.

You produce enough in one cycle to last me a year.

When I have a question that I can't find the answer to first, I come to one of four people:

Al B. Fuct
Earl
CALIGROWN
Garden Knowm

There is a reason why they are listed as such.

I'm building on your design.. I've wanted a perpetual grow for years, I've had to settle with guerilla ops.. which has made me very security concious.

Earl, another hyrdo/aero op.. very strict in calculations and design.. a premier example of my linear track of thought.

CALIGROWN, for the pure fact of yield and simplicity.

Garden Knowm, the fact he produced such nice bud and numbers using CFL's.. I love fluoro's for their advantages.. but I agree with you in the perpetual side of the HID's.

Shit, the only reason I purchased the cooltube was from your example. The batwing to be bought later, or built. 400w for mum's.. 48" Quad T5's for two 10"x20" clone trays.. 24" Dual T5's for seedlings.

The 600w was great for the size, a 400w would suffice.. but I like a little overkill (75w per sq. ft.).

I was thinking.. maybe the jiffy cubes could be used to root them.. then wash away the material and place them into the clay pebbles using the aero sprayers.. no need to water from the top since they will be sprayed continually in the rooting tub. I can also use the cut-out plastic from the lid to cover the 3" net cups to prevent light from damaging roots!



E

you could wash it out, why bother? You probably can't get it all out without damaging the roots and none of it will stay suspended, it will either float or sink to the bottom, and as Al has stated a nylon over the pump will keep it from getting into the pump. If it washes out let it. VV

VictorVIcious said:

you could wash it out, why bother? You probably can't get it all out without damaging the roots and none of it will stay suspended, it will either float or sink to the bottom, and as Al has stated a nylon over the pump will keep it from getting into the pump. If it washes out let it. VV

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I was going to get a pump with a filter anyways from the local aquarium shop.

I think I might use the nylon (sterlized of course) around the jiffy cubes.. letting the roots go through that and then through the peebles into the aero tub.

Thats great info you have posted. im in need of some couse my clones suck dick and keep dieing on me!
Are you feeding your moms up till and threw cloning or just for the first week after taking cuts?

ryan miller said:

Thats great info you have posted. im in need of some couse my clones suck dick and keep dieing on me!

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Overwatering is newb mistake numero uno. Slow rooting, slow growth, yellow leaves, last about 14 days before croaking? Overwatering.

Are you feeding your moms up till and threw cloning or just for the first week after taking cuts?

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The mums live in a tray which is flooded 2x/day (every 12h) from a tank running Canna Vega, 1500-1800ppm @ 5.8. Never changes.

I think we will use up these Jiffy cubes in soil first.. we have so many and plenty of soil.. first we need to see if these things will allow for roots.

The directions say to fully soak them.. but I know if they are they will promote root rot. I'm thinking just enough moisture to get them to expand and then clone from there.

Even RW cubes have to be soaked for 24h before use, The trick is not to keep the cloning media saturated post plugging stems in them. You'll certainly get roots in jiffy pots, they just can be problematic later on in a recirculating system. You won't be using recirculation with soil, so don't fret.

Al B. Fuct said:

Even RW cubes have to be soaked for 24h before use, The trick is not to keep the cloning media saturated post plugging stems in them. You'll certainly get roots in jiffy pots, they just can be problematic later on in a recirculating system. You won't be using recirculation with soil, so don't fret.

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I'll keep that in mind.. 24 hours.. and I'll use my scale to see what kind of water-mass needs to be in them before rooting clones!

Someone might want to know this...



E

Use your scales, yeah- but what weights are you shooting for in jiffypots? I have no idea what the water content by weight should be in those things to make them damp and not saturated. Come to think of it, I actually think it may be hard to saturate a jiffypot because of the nature of them.

I can give you chapter and verse on how to make roots pop (nearly with a BANG! ) in RW cubes in 7 days every time, but with jpots, you're pretty much on your own.

Al B. Fuct said:

Use your scales, yeah- but what weights are you shooting for in jiffypots? I have no idea what the water content by weight should be in those things to make them damp and not saturated. Come to think of it, I actually think it may be hard to saturate a jiffypot because of the nature of them.

I can give you chapter and verse on how to make roots pop (nearly with a BANG! ) in RW cubes in 7 days every time, but with jpots, you're pretty much on your own.

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Well, I said RW cubes.. someone got Jiffy.

It seems like your recorded success wasn't enough to convince someone.. oh well.

Besides, I think it worked out for the best.. a hydro op is out of the question.. the funds won't allow anything more. There is plenty of soil to go around.. and Jiffy-thingies are made for soil.

I will play with them and see how much is needed to fully expand one.. I might just have to squeze some moisture out of them when they are fully expanded.

The scale will help with determining the optimum mass of cube to water ratio.

Right now I've got a razor blade, denatured alcohol, and rooting hormone in powder form. The only thing I think is left is a heating mat for the 10x20 tray, which has a huge dome just in case. The light in the clone box is a 24" Dual T5.. I think that will be enough.

Should I get some H2O2 for the water used in expanding the Jiffy cubes?



E

Yep, get a heatmat, but I have my reservations about how well the heat will be conducted into the rootzone with jpots. Can't hurt.

Wouldn't squeeze them. That would crush the material and remove airspaces.

Skip the dome. A clonebox which is several times the volume of a typical plastic humidome, with a thermostatically controlled exhaust fan, is better for controlling the leaf area air temp and doesn't allow sauna-like 80-100% humidity levels, which are simply not needed- and often cause problems.

Bear in mind that the air temp isn't as critical as the rootzone temp when cloning. A clonebox is really just as good for keeping drafts from removing heat from your cloning media as it is for moderating the leaf-area air temp.

Yes, use 50% grade H2O2 at 1ml/L in all solutions. I'm not so sure that jpots should be soaked for 24h before use as are RW cubes, though. You'll have to ask someone who has used them more than I have, which is only a few times, many years ago.

Save your pennies. Hydro is very much worth doing when the budget permits. Try to accumulate the gear slowly so it doesn't pain your wallet so much at once.

Al B. Fuct said:

Yep, get a heatmat, but I have my reservations about how well the heat will be conducted into the rootzone with jpots. Can't hurt.

Wouldn't squeeze them. That would crush the material and remove airspaces.

Skip the dome. A clonebox which is several times the volume of a typical plastic humidome, with a thermostatically controlled exhaust fan, is better for controlling the leaf area air temp and doesn't allow sauna-like 80-100% humidity levels, which are simply not needed- and often cause problems.

Bear in mind that the air temp isn't as critical as the rootzone temp when cloning. A clonebox is really just as good for keeping drafts from removing heat from your cloning media as it is for moderating the leaf-area air temp.

Yes, use 50% grade H2O2 at 1ml/L in all solutions. I'm not so sure that jpots should be soaked for 24h before use as are RW cubes, though. You'll have to ask someone who has used them more than I have, which is only a few times, many years ago.

Save your pennies. Hydro is very much worth doing when the budget permits. Try to accumulate the gear slowly so it doesn't pain your wallet so much at once.

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My clone box isn't muc more than a book-stand and some panda film with velcro.. I'll test it with and without.

Is it worth spending the extra on the thermostat heat mat.. or just go with one that is preset?

Hydro is an option.. the main problem now is ventilation.



E

Is there no way to use the off-the-shelf H2O2?

I heard it has other chems that are bad stuff.. and does the aquatic store have everything for pH up and down and H2O2 that is safe for plants?



E

hey on a side note-ish....my ph up and down doesnt give instructions on how much to put in...is there a formula i can use to determine how much is needed? i would hat to just dump and sample!

ya a ph pen to test the water after adding a little bit....invest in one now, a digital waterproof one to be safe. YOULL need one anyway. eventually youll figure out how much goes in your tanks.

ph is different in every city as every city has different water filtration and mineral additions.

Enigma said:

My clone box isn't muc more than a book-stand and some panda film with velcro.. I'll test it with and without.

Is it worth spending the extra on the thermostat heat mat.. or just go with one that is preset?

Hydro is an option.. the main problem now is ventilation.

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Sounds like a great way to cook up a clonebox, very creative.

The fixed temp mats are generally good enough. They are usually fixed at 30C.

Ventilation is problem #1 for any grow op. It should be your very first consideration when deciding on a location for your grow.

Enigma said:

Is there no way to use the off-the-shelf H2O2?

I heard it has other chems that are bad stuff.. and does the aquatic store have everything for pH up and down and H2O2 that is safe for plants?

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3% H2O2 from the pharmacy is impractical to use because of the volumes required. At 1ml/L, my 125L tanks need 125ml of 50% grade H2O2 per application. You need 17x more (!) of the 3% stuff to get the same concentration of H2O2, so 2125ml (2.125 litres) for a 125L tank.

Common pharmacy 3% grade H2O2 packaging size is about 250ml. I'd need 8.5 bottles per tank, per application, every 3-4 days. I have 4x 125L tanks and a 50L for the mums. That would be more than 9 litres of 3% per treatment. Do you think I'd raise any eyebrows at the local chemist if I bought 38 bottles of their 3% H2O2 every 3-4 days?

I've also heard mention of stabiliser chems added to pharmacy grade H2O2 but no one seems to know what these chems are nor do such things appear on the label. I frankly would not worry about it if you had to use 3% in a pinch.

Look for 50% 'horticultural grade' H2O2 at hydro shops. You may also find 35% 'food grade' H2O2 which is used for sterilisation of food prep equipment. Application rate for 35% is 1.4ml/L.

bugsrnme said:

hey on a side note-ish....my ph up and down doesnt give instructions on how much to put in...is there a formula i can use to determine how much is needed? i would hat to just dump and sample!

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I'd hate for you to 'dump and sample,' too! It only takes about 10ml of pHDown to adjust my 125L tanks from about 7 to 5.8. You should be applying with a 10ml syringe or even an eyedropper for small tanks, not dumping it out of the bottle!

Yes- you need an electronic pH meter. Strips get you in the ballpark but are just not very accurate. I've compared strips to a calibrated meter- strips can vary as much as .5 from the meter reading.

Correct pH AFTER adding nutes to water. Many (if not all) hydroponic nutrients include pH buffers already. I run Canna Flores at 1400ppm in my flowering tanks (400ml each parts A&B in 125L tapwater). At 1400ppm, pH sets right about 5.8-5.9, requiring no correction, when my tapwater is at 7.1. Sometimes the pH of my municipal tapwater jumps up to about 8 after heavy rains. I suspect this is due to the water util more heavily treating water for pathogens as heavy rains tend to wash junk out of the catchments. When the tapwater pH is that high, it will require some downward correction.

question for you man. I tried cloning several clones without a heat mat and i oversoaked the rockwool. they were at like 70 g's. I cut them an inch shorter, redid the process with 30g damp cubes. I dont have an agricultural heat mat. Can i use my girlfriends period heating mat instead? also, how often should i change the rockwool water and how do i do this without getting them to damp and up to 70 g's. thanks.

Lestat2888 said:

question for you man. I tried cloning several clones without a heat mat and i oversoaked the rockwool. they were at like 70 g's. I cut them an inch shorter, redid the process with 30g damp cubes. I dont have an agricultural heat mat. Can i use my girlfriends period heating mat instead? also, how often should i change the rockwool water and how do i do this without getting them to damp and up to 70 g's. thanks.

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Heating pads for people are not ideal- they usually get too hot. You might be able to mickeymouse it by putting your cubes in a tupperware or other heavy plastic container and separate that from the heat mat with a couple layers of bath towel.

When the cubes have lost about half their water weight, water by dipping only a corner of the cube quickly, for about a half a second or so, in pH 5.8 water with 1ml/L 50% grade H2O2. Should get up and go for you if the rootzone temp runs about 28-30C.