5 x 5 light set up

Frank Cannon

Well-Known Member
Chur bro, yeah I've seen plenty of this style but I know you can get them with a graduated number on them which I would prefer if I can find em, I am being a bit anal now:mrgreen: but I want it to easy for the missus (yeah I know she should be able to look at the power meter, and as you mentioned once I get the hang of it it will prolly only change from seedling stage, veg stage and then full power.

Without taking us off topic too much, I use the canna range which I have just started supplemented with calmag, silica and humibooster, is the Quadrant board nut requirements much diff from HPS?

Out of curiosity PC what flavour nuts you running?
FC
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I've always used Canadian Xpress (CX). They're hybrid organic nutes. I also use Budlink and CalMag. Only started using CalMag since I started growing under LEDs. Never used it with HPS, as CX has plenty, but LEDs are more demanding.
 

Frank Cannon

Well-Known Member
Hey ya go @Prawn and AW16, couldn't wait any longer so i screwed it together this arvo 29" outside to outside of QB96s for my 4ft 6 tent.
Still waiting on WAGOs and then a quick wire job and she all done, what a piece of piss to put together......:cool:
FC
 

Attachments

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
That's awesome! Be sure to show us what it all looks like set up in your room if you can. I've mounted all my drivers remotely (like HPS ballasts) to keep excess heat out of my tents and rooms. You might appreciate that in summer if you don't have aircon and want to keep things even cooler. Otherwise, looks like you've built a nice set-up.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Hey ya go @Prawn and AW16, couldn't wait any longer so i screwed it together this arvo 29" outside to outside of QB96s for my 4ft 6 tent.
Still waiting on WAGOs and then a quick wire job and she all done, what a piece of piss to put together......:cool:
FC
Where did you get the drivers with the Aussie plugs? I've been buying from OS (Arrow, Mouser) and having to attach my own plugs.
 

Frank Cannon

Well-Known Member
ADM Instruments, they are more exy than arrow, but they threw in the dimmers ans it keeps everything tidy.

Im worried about the heat from the drivers now, (I mounted them to the box section to act as heat sinks tho) guess I'll wait and see. Worst case I will remote mount with dimmers. Did you use a connector when you remote mounted or hard wired?
 

Frank Cannon

Well-Known Member
Prawn can you give me a couple more points of reference pls cob.

I been ok with heat with the 600 but ballast is outside tent.
Will my new setup generate more heat ?

I like the 600 for winter temp hence why I stuck with inside, thinking maybe drivers outside for summer inside tent for winter now maybe..

Whats the deal with best daytime vs night time temps? In summer my night time temps can get 40 deg lights off..
 

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
ADM Instruments, they are more exy than arrow, but they threw in the dimmers ans it keeps everything tidy.

Im worried about the heat from the drivers now, (I mounted them to the box section to act as heat sinks tho) guess I'll wait and see. Worst case I will remote mount with dimmers. Did you use a connector when you remote mounted or hard wired?
You need a connection make it easy. That way, you can actually just run the ends through the holes in your tent and connect them.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I use connectors with 4-5m of 14AWG double insulated wire. I'm not sure if you have a tent, but Airwalker is right about the connectors making it easier to run wires in and out.

I've always run my lights at night. Over the years I've tried running them during the day in winter to see if it makes any difference, but found the lower overnight temps retarded growth more than the added warmth during the day accelerated it. So I simply aim to keep my grow area reasonably warm at all times during winter, and reasonably cool during summer (no easy task with overnight temps in the high 30s).

If you run remote drivers, then you have the option of moving them inside or out depending on time of year. Regardless, the cooler you keep your LEDs, the more efficient they will run. So if you want more warmth in the room to help with growth, the the best place for the drivers is somewhere near a fan that will mix the warm air. The LEDs themselves will also produce heat, but you don't want to add heat to them with the drivers.

600W of LED will generate a similar amount of heat to 600W of HPS, but the HPS heat will be more concentrated. The advantage of LEDs is they will generate more usable light for the same power draw (also, LED light always points in one direction - HPS light is usually reflected, making it less efficient - unless you grow vertically), so you can either grow more plants (more yield) with the same 600W, or turn the LEDs down to 400W or so to produce similar yields to the 600W HPS with less generated heat.

There's a bit of a debate about "heat vs light" in one of the other threads here that I've waded into. Simply put, light is thermal energy, and any time energy is transferred, it is in the form of "heat". Light reflects off other objects (which is why we can see them), but is slowly absorbed as it continues to reflect and refract. If it reflects off an object (mirror, reflector), or passes through it (glass, air), or is diffused, then it does not transfer much of its energy to that object - the temperature does not rise by much - and will continue to bounce and reflect off other objects until it is all absorbed (with a corresponding rise in temperature over all those objects).

Thermal energy can also be transferred directly - that is, "heat" (as we typically know it) being conducted from one object to another by coming into contact with it. Metals conduct heat very efficiently - that's why they get hot! Air also conducts heat, but not as efficiently - that's why a metal object will heat up a metal surface next to it, and to a lesser extent, the air around it.

What I'm trying to say is, it seems counter-intuitive that 600W of LED will produce the same "heat" as 600W of HPS, but they just produce that heat in different ways. Some of the heat (light energy) gets bounced around and absorbed by plants and converted into stored energy (sugars and starches). Some of the heat (conductive energy) is absorbed by metal and other fixtures and the surrounding air directly from the element itself (HPS bulb, ballast etc). Some of the heat circulates around the room in the form of hot air (convective energy), heating up other things it comes into contact with.

In a sealed environment, eventually everything heats up to the same temperature, and thus all the energy in the environment returns to a state of equilibrium.

All you need to know is the more energy that can be converted to usable energy by the plant in the form of PAR (photosynthetically active radiation), the less total energy (heat) you need to introduce to the environment to get the same results. That is the advantage of LEDs. The other is they produce less conductive heat than other light sources due to their efficiency and smaller size for the same light output. So they are "cooler" to the touch and do not concentrate heat as much in one spot as a HID element.

Hope that all makes sense :bigjoint:
 

Frank Cannon

Well-Known Member
Gotta love your tutorials! :idea:
I've seen the various debates and what you have said makes sense to me.
Yeah I'm thinking of another separate frame for the drivers and dimmers outside the tent now and run with twin core flex to WAGOs.

My lights on is always evenings for precisely the reasons you mentioned. If I struggle for warmth in winter I'll move the frame inside down low near a fan to try and radiate a bit of heat around.

Plsd I went do it myself now, will be a much better end result once I get sorted.

Thankyou PC
 

Frank Cannon

Well-Known Member
So finally got a chance to scratch my nuts and get a few jobs out of the way:

All wired up on the frame

20181110_100021.jpg
Wired up for remote drivers as advised by the wise ones, if I find it is too cool I will mount drivers back on frame
20181110_131413.jpg

Remote drivers mounted
20181110_150255.jpg

Needs a bit of a tidy up which I'll do tomoz.

320w at the wall full blast per driver, these little mf are bright!

So I been running a 600w HPS full noise in the early stages of veg, do I run these things full blast or wait till flower, I understand the 600 ppfd thing for veg vs 1000 ppfd for flower, but since I am changing like for like power wise, more or less what do you think? Put em at 160w per driver for the change over 2 ft away at the mo.

FC
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Do you normally veg and grow in the same area? I run my 2.5'x2' veg chamber at about 120W at the moment (vs just under 200W for the same flowering area). My mate runs 200W over his 4'x2' veg area.

So yeah, half power, or a little more would work. Depends what stage of growth and how fast you want to veg. I'm guessing the extra red may lead to a bit more stretch, but light intensity will counter that a bit.

While you've replaced a 600W HPS with 600+W of LED, they're not really equivalent - the LED will be closer to a 750-1000HPS due to efficiencies, but mostly due to beam angle. Most LEDs are focused down at 120 degrees, while your HPS bulb (unless you have it hung vertically) is reflecting about 1/4-1/3 of its light off a hood.

So is 320W the maximum those B drivers will pull from the wall with the pot turned up full? The A drivers exceed their specs - in some cases, by quite a bit. Have you tested the voltage draw? I'm curious to know what max voltage and amperage you're getting to the lights. My figures above are at the lights, not the wall.
 

Frank Cannon

Well-Known Member
Hey Prawn, yeah I get it that I have more light hence why I'm wondering about power. Tent is a one stop shop, so veg for 4-5 weeks and then flip, if i can speed up veg cycle a bit that would be cool but I don't wanna burn the buggers...

Pro rata off your 2.5x2ft at 120 w for my 4.6ftx4.6ft = 480w, you will be more dialled in than me but I'm guessing I could probably run 4-450w at 24" ok?

Yes 320w was at the wall full noise on dimmer. If I disconnect the dimmer and driver runs at 100% will I get slightly more? - I thought I read this somewhere but could be wrong.

I have a multi meter so tell me what, where and how to measure and I can give you some further numbers if your interested, hopefully I don't fry myself in the act.

Really noticed a big difference in temps this morning when I checked, I know its only 320w at the mo, but definitely noticeable

FC
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Hey mate, I just checked the HLG website and noticed they've put a new warning up about the thermal pads not being adhesive and the boards needing to be screwed on to the heatsinks - I noticed you hadn't used any screws.

https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/quantum-boards/products/qb96-elite-v2-quantum-board-engine

This ^ also contradicts what is stated on another page that the thermal pads ARE adhesive > https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/quantum-boards/products/qb96-v2-quantum-board

Go figure! HLG's mounting instructions aren't always clear and they don't always include the correct hardware with their boards, so perhaps best to screw them on.

Those drivers are up to 95% efficient on 230V power when dialled up, so 320W at the wall should be 304W at the lights. The Wagos have holes in the back of them, so you can test them there for voltage. I'm just curious to know how many volts they drop at that wattage.

I'm thinking 400W should be plenty for those plants in veg. I'm basing that off the fact you were running a single 600W HPS in that space and getting about an elbow off four plants (4oz each), so I'm guessing they don't need to be that big before they go to 12/12. You probably veg for about 3-4 weeks, is that right? I'd be expecting you to pull at least 5oz per plant with the new set-up. Probably closer to 6.
 
Last edited:

Frank Cannon

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the heads up re pads, thing is the light holes dont line up with heatsink holes otherwise I would have screwed:oops:
Yes pretty much on the money re veg times, 6 would be ideal!
I'll get some voltages and amps for ya tonight if I get a chance...
FC
 
Top