2x400w versus 1x1000w

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Revolution Micro said:
We're going to send you one to play with, and another grower also wrote and wants to try the Allstart. I think it'll be a good project!
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Thank you! I can't wait to put it up against the rest of my lights and see how it works!

If our preliminary investigations with LFSW ballasts are confirmed, this combo could easily be a thousand watt version of the 315W CMH system.

If the first one works, we'll have to work out a deal on 4 or 5 more, so I can build out a whole rack and do the full scale test. People will want to know what the performance difference is between magnetic ballast and a proper square wave driver. If the difference is 25%or more in terms of final yield, it won't matter how much they cost (BTW, they're the least expensive 1kW LFSW I've ever seen), it will be worth it!
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
MCOB said:
Hey, I just saw your post. Which COB (Chips on Board) LED are you referring to and can you post the link to your thread here?
There are lots of COB LEDs coming up and a lot of the companies advertising them don't advertise the actual draw - they just advertise total watts.
LEDs don't run at the total watt amount but rather 40-60% less. Companies from China, Amazon, Ebay listings will advertise total watts so they get more short-term sales but end up with unhappy customers. Always make sure you know what the actual watts are before buying something. If you are unsure, contact them. If they don't reply then you shouldn't even deal with them because if your product that you bought stops working then you are SOL when it comes to getting your money back - stuck with a paperweight.

COB LEDs aren't bad. 550 Watt Scorpion COB side by side with a 1000 Watt HPS
http://www.cobgrowlights.com/blogs/news/77794757-growthstar-scorpion-cob-grow-light-trial-enters-final-weeks-notes-from-3rd-party-cultivator
If you want more photos /closeups just pm me and I'll send the latest.
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If you were asking me, the link to my thread is in my signature line.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:

My hps ballasts are getting old and ive been thinking about replacing them... and with both you and Gro Err raving about these LECs... think im going to go that way.

So... how to cover a 5x9 space with those? And... what might i need to cool em? As i understand they dont have a/c hoods...
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They really kick butt over a 3x3, so if you want to kill it in your space you might consider as many as 6 of them.

For HPS in this 5x9 space you'd need 2 thouies or half a dozen 400W lamps.

I'm running half a dozen of these in a room and I'm not using AC, just flow thru ventilation.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Flagg420 said:
They 'can' ..... I have seen some OG hoods that would work...

Issue is the LEC/CMH or whatever they finally choose to call them..... Mount vertical, not u need a hood designed for vertical bulb mounting.
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The 315W CMH system uses universal mount lamps. The 860W CDM Allstart is vertical only.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
They really kick butt over a 3x3, so if you want to kill it in your space you might consider as many as 6 of them.

For HPS in this 5x9 space you'd need 2 thouies or half a dozen 400W lamps.

I'm running half a dozen of these in a room and I'm not using AC, just flow thru ventilation.
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So 6 of those 315s with just fans for cooling. That is very attractive...

I run 2 thouies air cooled right now and i have a window a/c... all dialled in and doing a great job. But like i say... those ballasts are old and its time for something new...

Now that i finally got everything dialled in why not change it all up and start all over? Lol
 
lawlrus

lawlrus

Well-Known Member
I'd go with a 600w horizontal in a 4x4 with proper training realistically...most "bang for the buck" and easiest to control going into warmer months. You could easily make a 1000w work in that space particularly if it was air cooled but if you're asking, you would be pushing the point of diminishing returns past 600w in that small of an area in my opinion.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
So 6 of those 315s with just fans for cooling. That is very attractive...

I run 2 thouies air cooled right now and i have a window a/c... all dialled in and doing a great job. But like i say... those ballasts are old and its time for something new...

Now that i finally got everything dialled in why not change it all up and start all over? Lol
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315W CMH is easier to grow with than 1kW HPS any day of the week. For openers, how about a spectrum the plants actually like?! LOL Next, they're almost 40% efficient and they'll last a few years per lamp. They run nice n cool because of this. Third, six light sources instead of only two is much better for spread!

I'll hear from you after your first run, thanking me.
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
HydroRed said:
That side by side study really means nothing unless there are no variables different between the 2 rooms meaning
- same strains of clones cut from the same momma in both rooms
-the same feed schedule
-same feed strength
-same medium
-same temps/humidity, etc.

This side by side mentions none of this.
Also, can you provide links to the rest of the side by side grow?
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side by side comparison with everything the same, nutes,cuts,and conditions,,only difference was lighting... the 315 watt cdl's or cmh, whatever you want to call them blow away hps yields and gpw... 3 315watt cmh or 945 total watts yields better than 2 600 watt hps totaling 1200 watts...PERIOD!!!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-315-watt-cdl-grow.880895/page-1
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
side by side comparison with everything the same, nutes,cuts,and conditions,,only difference was lighting... the 315 watt cdl's or cmh, whatever you want to call them blow away hps yields and gpw... 3 315watt cmh or 945 total watts yields better than 2 600 watt hps totaling 1200 watts...PERIOD!!!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-315-watt-cdl-grow.880895/page-1
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You were saying you thought that a 315W CMH system was worth roughly 500W of HPS, was that correct?
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
You were saying you thought that a 315W CMH system was worth roughly 500W of HPS, was that correct?
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easily 500 watt hps,,, covers the 4ftx4ft area very well at 2ft above, but ive seen many putting it 3ft above canopy and getting even better coverage,,i just dont have the height,wish i did... im still working on gram per watt, best ive got was 1.5 so far but im thinking that 2gpw is achievable with time and expierience.. its nice that it takes a week off flowering times too..
do the cob led's finish plants faster too?? thanks tty!!

if gram per watt is 1.75 or better than it truly is compareable to 1 600 watt hps getting 1gpw,,, but as of now id say its more like 500watts or better hps
 
HydroRed

HydroRed

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
side by side comparison with everything the same, nutes,cuts,and conditions,,only difference was lighting... the 315 watt cdl's or cmh, whatever you want to call them blow away hps yields and gpw... 3 315watt cmh or 945 total watts yields better than 2 600 watt hps totaling 1200 watts...PERIOD!!!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-315-watt-cdl-grow.880895/page-1
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I wasnt doubting this. My comment was regarding the link MCOB put up in his post with a "side by side grow". If were gonna be talking about footprint over wattage though, how would that experiment work with 3- 400W HPS since the footprint will be better than that of just 2-600W HPS?
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
HydroRed said:
I wasnt doubting this. My comment was regarding the link MCOB put up in his post with a "side by side grow". If were gonna be talking about footprint over wattage though, how would that experiment work with 3- 400W HPS since the footprint will be better than that of just 2-600W HPS?
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ok,, ive done this too.. i have a 4ft x6ft f&d table, i started with 3 400 watt hps, then 2 400hps and 1 400 mh, the addition of the mh kept yields the same with better finished product.. then ran a single 1k hps run and the 3 400's produced way better, then tried 2 600 watt hps,,all grows got 1 gpw and the 2 600's produced a bit more than the 3 400's, actual yields are written in a folder somewere. i stuck with the 2 600's for years as they produced best yields, i also tried 1 600 hps and 1 600mh..i liked the mixed spectrum as it reduced stretch and closer node structures..i ran hps/mh for over 20 years,, believe me i was very scepticle of the claims comparing a 315watt cmh to a 600 watt hps,, but i had to give it a try..my results were very good, less wattage and better gpw's with cmh,, however 1 315 has not produced 600 grams so far so its more compareable to 500 watts hps just the coverage of a 600, covers a 4x4 area well.. but if you run more than 1 315 things get better,, 2 315's or 3 315's seem to really kick some ass, 3 or 945 total watts producing over 1200 grams dry weight,,,,id say they are clearly more efficient,, my thought is the more 315's you run, the larger the area covered, the gram per watt will continue to grow and 2 gram per watt is achievable, not with a single unit, but running multiple cmh's it is deffinatly possible
 
WeedFreak78

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
I'm going with 2 600's over a 4x4. I couldn't find a dual bulb hood to fit so I made a custom hood by splitting 2 cool tube hoods and using the left of one, the right of the other, tubes running parallel to each other and made a filler piece for the middle out of aluminum. Now it's 33Lx36W and the cool tubes are 11" apart and centered. The bulbs are mounted on opposite ends. 1200W to cover a 4x4, and I should be able to get closer than a 1000. I don't know why hoods like this are so difficult to find.
 
MCOB

MCOB

Member
TheChemist77 said:
ok,, ive done this too.. i have a 4ft x6ft f&d table, i started with 3 400 watt hps, then 2 400hps and 1 400 mh, the addition of the mh kept yields the same with better finished product.. then ran a single 1k hps run and the 3 400's produced way better, then tried 2 600 watt hps,,all grows got 1 gpw and the 2 600's produced a bit more than the 3 400's, actual yields are written in a folder somewere. i stuck with the 2 600's for years as they produced best yields, i also tried 1 600 hps and 1 600mh..i liked the mixed spectrum as it reduced stretch and closer node structures..i ran hps/mh for over 20 years,, believe me i was very scepticle of the claims comparing a 315watt cmh to a 600 watt hps,, but i had to give it a try..my results were very good, less wattage and better gpw's with cmh,, however 1 315 has not produced 600 grams so far so its more compareable to 500 watts hps just the coverage of a 600, covers a 4x4 area well.. but if you run more than 1 315 things get better,, 2 315's or 3 315's seem to really kick some ass, 3 or 945 total watts producing over 1200 grams dry weight,,,,id say they are clearly more efficient,, my thought is the more 315's you run, the larger the area covered, the gram per watt will continue to grow and 2 gram per watt is achievable, not with a single unit, but running multiple cmh's it is deffinatly possible
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Do these nug shots look ok with what you typically see for results? Grown with 'cheap blurple' GrowthStar MCOB grow lights.
https://www.facebook.com/growthstar/

Let me know. If there is a better product I would want to know about it before I invest more money.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/222074684831?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D53601919689_324272%26itemid%3D222074684831%26targetid%3D154774675689%26rpc%3D0.12%26rpc_upld_id%3D67951%26device%3Dm%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252Flike%252F222074684831%253Flpid%253D82%2526chn%253Dps%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D1016367%26poi%3D9028770%26campaignid%3D239125209%26adgroupid%3D14978428809%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-154774675689%26gclid%3DCj0KEQjw3Le4BRDxx5bk4aDn9t4BEiQAfmxQGfMYBUJ6cSo6TcPeBaCUaz9H7XRebTet5hqMetxRkdAaAlP38P8HAQ%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1014319155368&ul_noapp=true

Not sure it's "better", but it's new!
 
MCOB

MCOB

Member
Hmm? That is HPS though. I don't use them anymore since switching. The energy costs for LED are half that of HPS and has less cooling requirements. You still need a fan but it doesn't get as hot. But even costs aside, plants are also healthier. I have thousands of photos of various grow trials if you need proof of that.

If you do try LED, you will also get a better blended light (spectrum) and no hot spots on the plants. HPS can kill plants because of the heat and you may get yellow spotting among other things. It has been easier to do my job growing without HPS.

The cost to replace bulbs on HPS which runs from $22 to a few hundred dollars needs to be switched out every few months. If you do big grows, HPS is outdated.

I attached some pics from GrowthStar in one of their 2013-2014 grow trials with MCOB/COB filling one side of the room and HPS on the other side. The plants on the LED side are bigger. I have more closeup shots but the file sizes are like 8mb per image for the closeups. The ones below are only 4mb
 

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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
MCOB said:
Hmm? That is HPS though. I don't use them anymore since switching. The energy costs for LED are half that of HPS and has less cooling requirements. You still need a fan but it doesn't get as hot. But even costs aside, plants are also healthier. I have thousands of photos of various grow trials if you need proof of that.

If you do try LED, you will also get a better blended light (spectrum) and no hot spots on the plants. HPS can kill plants because of the heat and you may get yellow spotting among other things. It has been easier to do my job growing without HPS.

The cost to replace bulbs on HPS which runs from $22 to a few hundred dollars needs to be switched out every few months. If you do big grows, HPS is outdated.

I attached some pics from GrowthStar in one of their 2013-2014 grow trials with MCOB/COB filling one side of the room and HPS on the other side. The plants on the LED side are bigger. I have more closeup shots but the file sizes are like 8mb per image for the closeups. The ones below are only 4mb
Click to expand...
Whoa.
 
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