2200 Watt Hydroponic 4 Table Perpetual 4X8 Tent Grow

Naw, I don't need a second res I just need a new one. Going to swap it out with either a strongbox, or a cooler. It's way overfilled. I was trying to lessen the PH swings caused by the hydroton before I got rid of the shit. PH is stable now. I'm also running H202 from start to finish so I should be alright until I get a new res. I know it's a eyesore, but it's serving it's purpose for now.

I'm running a bunch of auto's right now just to fill the tent, and get a grow off while I veg the plant I'll be using for the perpetual setup. Some people like to harvest every six weeks, I want to harvest every 2. I'm going to group up the pheno's so as soon as I can get a tray empty I can start running clones perpetually from there.
You want to have swings from 6.0-5.3 right? The chart I linked below shows different nutrients getting locked out if you keep a steady PH so it needs to swing up and down. I wonder how often it should swing from the higher to lower range? 1 day high, 1 day low?

http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?11726-Ph-Lockout-Chart
 

Taviddude

Well-Known Member
You want to have swings from 6.0-5.3 right? The chart I linked below shows different nutrients getting locked out if you keep a steady PH so it needs to swing up and down. I wonder how often it should swing from the higher to lower range? 1 day high, 1 day low?

http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?11726-Ph-Lockout-Chart
Yeah, a slow PH movement can be good, but the charts are be misleading.
Many hydroponic nutrients are Chelated which allows them to be taken up at a much wider PH range.
Many will also have Humic, or Fulvic acids which act as Chelating agents, again making nutrients more available to the plant at different PH levels.

I like to run 5.5 to 5.8 in Veg, and 5.7-6.0 in bloom.
I guess it could be different for different nutrients.

Generally PH will go up as plants eat.
PH going down indicates overfeeding, or infection.
Dialing into plants and getting EC/PPM stable should keep ph movements to a minimum.
5.5 to 5.8 should take 2-3 days if you've got enough nutrients in the water.
It may not move at all in 2 days if you get perfectly dialed into your plants.
In that case I'd stay at 5.8.

I kind of rambled a bit.
I hope I made sense, lol.
 
Yeah, a slow PH movement can be good, but the charts are be misleading.
Many hydroponic nutrients are Chelated which allows them to be taken up at a much wider PH range.
Many will also have Humic, or Fulvic acids which act as Chelating agents, again making nutrients more available to the plant at different PH levels.

I like to run 5.5 to 5.8 in Veg, and 5.7-6.0 in bloom.
I guess it could be different for different nutrients.

Generally PH will go up as plants eat.
PH going down indicates overfeeding, or infection.
Dialing into plants and getting EC/PPM stable should keep ph movements to a minimum.
5.5 to 5.8 should take 2-3 days if you've got enough nutrients in the water.
It may not move at all in 2 days if you get perfectly dialed into your plants.
In that case I'd stay at 5.8.

I kind of rambled a bit.
I hope I made sense, lol.

Yes that makes a lot of sense, thank you very much. Keep rambling for me. Hey if one were to do a 4x4 1 plant perpetual scrog. 1 flower and 1 veg room. What is the least amount of light you could you use for the veg room? Let's say for example the strain needed to be moved to flower when 80 -90% of the screen is full and you have been vegging into the screen ( screen and everything on wheels). Could you get away with using a 400w mh to veg 80-90% of a 4x4 scrog? How about 250w mh with a kick ass hood? How about if you wanted this same 4x4 veg room to supply 2 4x4 flower rooms but still only use 1 400mh for veg? Could you just pack the 4x4 with more plants so that you don't have to fill up the screen 80-90% since more plants would cover the 4x4 in flower more quickly. For example have 4 plants in the 4x4 veg room instead of one. 2 plants for each flower room. Or maybe it would have to be more like 6-8 in veg? To use the least amount of light possible during veg would it be better to not train into the screen during veg but grow plants tall and then when ready to flower, bend them over and throw a screen on? I'd really rather not run more than 400 in veg if I can get away with it and not sacrifice too much quality/yield.
 

neo12345

Well-Known Member
No offence Denvergirl but I've seen you ask this same question at least 3 times in 3 different threads, I and others have answered this question but you're still asking it.

I find it quite disrespectful that you haven't replied to any of the answers and are still asking the same question to others, we've taken the time to reply to your question so a little acknowledgement would be nice?
 
No offence Denvergirl but I've seen you ask this same question at least 3 times in 3 different threads, I and others have answered this question but you're still asking it.

I find it quite disrespectful that you haven't replied to any of the answers and are still asking the same question to others, we've taken the time to reply to your question so a little acknowledgement would be nice?
Ohhhh I'm sorry Neo, I should have thanked you taking the 4 seconds out of your busy day to partially answer the lesser part of my post. I probably shouldn't ask the same questions to get answers from different people in different threads either huh. Your word must be golden and I should follow it as if you were Jesus himself and I should take that wealth of knowledge you left me and run with it for the rest of my life. Is there a like button or something I need to hit on your post so you can get your post points or something? Don't bother replying to this or any other questions I may have Neo, I just can't give you all the attention that you require and your answers are very insufficient.
 

bigworm6969

Well-Known Member
i agree with denvergirl i think its good to ask the same questions a couple of times, cause you might get different answers, nothing wrong with that
 

neo12345

Well-Known Member
Ohhhh I'm sorry Neo, I should have thanked you taking the 4 seconds out of your busy day to partially answer the lesser part of my post. I probably shouldn't ask the same questions to get answers from different people in different threads either huh. Your word must be golden and I should follow it as if you were Jesus himself and I should take that wealth of knowledge you left me and run with it for the rest of my life. Is there a like button or something I need to hit on your post so you can get your post points or something? Don't bother replying to this or any other questions I may have Neo, I just can't give you all the attention that you require and your answers are very insufficient.
No wonder nobody else has bothered wasting their time replying to you if that is your attitude! Why bother asking questions at all as you clearly know everything already?

Your questions are incoherent and you answer most of them yourself, the only question in there that made any sense to me was the one about whether a 400w would cover a 4x4 space.

Use a 400w or don't use a 400w, I couldn't care less. Use a candle if you like, or the sunlight coming from your backside?

You don't have to take my or anyone else's advice on here, but if someone takes the time to reply to you then a little acknowledgement that they have done so is just polite at the very least. Do you have manners in Denver?

You could of course just start your own thread and ask your questions instead of ruining other peoples, just click on the newbie section and ask away.

Apologies to Taviddude for taking his thread off course.
 

Taviddude

Well-Known Member
Yes that makes a lot of sense, thank you very much. Keep rambling for me. Hey if one were to do a 4x4 1 plant perpetual scrog. 1 flower and 1 veg room. What is the least amount of light you could you use for the veg room? Let's say for example the strain needed to be moved to flower when 80 -90% of the screen is full and you have been vegging into the screen ( screen and everything on wheels). Could you get away with using a 400w mh to veg 80-90% of a 4x4 scrog? How about 250w mh with a kick ass hood? How about if you wanted this same 4x4 veg room to supply 2 4x4 flower rooms but still only use 1 400mh for veg? Could you just pack the 4x4 with more plants so that you don't have to fill up the screen 80-90% since more plants would cover the 4x4 in flower more quickly. For example have 4 plants in the 4x4 veg room instead of one. 2 plants for each flower room. Or maybe it would have to be more like 6-8 in veg? To use the least amount of light possible during veg would it be better to not train into the screen during veg but grow plants tall and then when ready to flower, bend them over and throw a screen on? I'd really rather not run more than 400 in veg if I can get away with it and not sacrifice too much quality/yield.
I couldn't see using much less than 400 watts for a 4x4, but if ya want, give a 250mh a try.
400 would probably be perfect if you are trying to fill a screen as you'll likely still get some stretch from your plants with a 400.
I would definitely rather go with 4-5 plants in a 4x4 myself to cut down on veg time.
It could take a long time to fill a 4x4 screen with 1 plant.
30-40 days is all it would take with 4-5 plants.
A lot of your Scrog training is going to begin after flip during the stretch.

I have decided to put on a Screen late and bend down some plants, but that's definitely not ideal.
Your plants will branch out more and fill in the ScrOG in faster if you put the screen on earlier.
The faster you get the top shoot bend down under the screen, the faster all the side branches will shoot up to the top.
When you get those down under the screen, their secondary shoots will start to shoot up.

With two tents or rooms you could kill it.

Not sure if I'm reading you correctly, but if you have a couple tents, just start one 6 weeks after the other.
( I did read your whole post, I swear. I didn't catch the Scrog on wheels thing though, That's killer. Disregard the rest of this post about moving lights, lol. Much easier to roll a scrog right into the room.)
When you pull your flowering plants, replace them with veg plants and switch the lights from the flowering room to the veg room/ veg room to flower room. That would be a good pound or more every 6 weeks.

If you have 3 tents/rooms, just do the same thing. Just keep replacing your harvest plants with veg plants, and swap the light out.
That would give you a 30 day veg which would be pretty good if you were using 4-6 plants in a 4x4
Should pull a pound or more every 30 days running like that with 3 rooms.

My very first real hydro grow was a 4x4 and I pulled a pound and a half with 1200 watts.
I also had root aphids, spider mites, temperature issues and had no idea what I was doing with PH and Feed, lol.
 
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Taviddude

Well-Known Member
First grow ever not in ScrOG. (other than some outdoor plants and a bubble bucket failure)
Haven't done much to these plants at all.
I didn't have any bloom ferts for them about a week ago. That's going to hurt yield quite a bit.
7 plants (1 is a total runt right in front all the way to the right)
4- 600's
9 weeks from seed with 3 weeks to go.

Strain- Think Different Autoflowering Dutch Passion






Side project.



 

bigworm6969

Well-Known Member
man i like ur style, is ur hydro setup an under current where u have a control bucket hook to rez i always wantted to do that style, i hate when i get runts it happenes man, i wish i was a clone and mom grower, all the strains ive ran i came across alot of nice plants thats when i should have clone that bitch and make it my mom and run a whole room of that strain for profit, thats the smart and cheap way of doing it u dont have to buy that many seeds and ur not wasteing time on plants that might be a runt, im just a strain whore and the more the merry but i need to change my ways u know work smarter not harder haha
 

Taviddude

Well-Known Member
Haha. Those are damn Beautiful!
They just grow so pretty on cakes. They're all over the place in bags.
Hell, they look like white snakes a lot of times, lol.

Yeah, I'm definitely looking for those keeper Moms.
That's been the ONLY downfall of growing auto's for me.
When I get that PERFECT plant I just have to watch it die with it's genetics.
(Sure, I could reverse it with CS and try to stabilize it myself but I'm not that into it)

That and every plant is a bit different so I've always got plants that want more feed, and some that want less.
I'd like to be able to dial into a whole table full of clones.

That system is actually a DIY Ebb N Flo bucket system.
Control bucket has a float to set fill level, and a pump to empty all buckets back into the reservoir.
 

Taviddude

Well-Known Member
Thanks Bro. I couldn't believe it myself. They twirled down about 10 inches into the drain. That was a SICK mat of roots for sure. I may run that system again. I've been thinking of giving it to a bud, but you know how it is with DIY stuff. If you didn't build it you don't know the inns and out of it, and he'd just expect it to work. I had to clear the roots from the drains weekly at least. I went in with a knife a couple times and just cut a 3 inch diameter chunk out around the drain. Filled back in within a week. That system did take a little maintenance but it was good to me in the end.

I saw this system a while back, and it looked easy enough to DIY.
Only thing that got me for a minute was that you need to poke a hole in the tubing from the pump in the reservoir to the control bucket to break the siphon after the pump shuts off or it'll just keep on flooding anyway without the pump. Not sure how they do it on their systems, bit that's how I had to make it work. I'm sure they do something.
Not sure if it's the larger size of pump and tubing I use, but I use 5 gallon instead of 3 and it only takes about 5 minutes to flood. 10 to drain fully
 
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I couldn't see using much less than 400 watts for a 4x4, but if ya want, give a 250mh a try.
400 would probably be perfect if you are trying to fill a screen as you'll likely still get some stretch from your plants with a 400.
I would definitely rather go with 4-5 plants in a 4x4 myself to cut down on veg time.
It could take a long time to fill a 4x4 screen with 1 plant.
30-40 days is all it would take with 4-5 plants.
A lot of your Scrog training is going to begin after flip during the stretch.

I have decided to put on a Screen late and bend down some plants, but that's definitely not ideal.
Your plants will branch out more and fill in the ScrOG in faster if you put the screen on earlier.
The faster you get the top shoot bend down under the screen, the faster all the side branches will shoot up to the top.
When you get those down under the screen, their secondary shoots will start to shoot up.

With two tents or rooms you could kill it.

Not sure if I'm reading you correctly, but if you have a couple tents, just start one 6 weeks after the other.
( I did read your whole post, I swear. I didn't catch the Scrog on wheels thing though, That's killer. Disregard the rest of this post about moving lights, lol. Much easier to roll a scrog right into the room.)
When you pull your flowering plants, replace them with veg plants and switch the lights from the flowering room to the veg room/ veg room to flower room. That would be a good pound or more every 6 weeks.

If you have 3 tents/rooms, just do the same thing. Just keep replacing your harvest plants with veg plants, and swap the light out.
That would give you a 30 day veg which would be pretty good if you were using 4-6 plants in a 4x4
Should pull a pound or more every 30 days running like that with 3 rooms.

My very first real hydro grow was a 4x4 and I pulled a pound and a half with 1200 watts.
I also had root aphids, spider mites, temperature issues and had no idea what I was doing with PH and Feed, lol.
Ok thanks a bunch, I'm not too worried about veg time as long as it's 8 weeks or less, that way I could have a nice steady rotation going. They would be in DWC buckets. The staggering thing you mentioned may be the way to go for me. I was wanting to harvest at the same time that way there's only a few weeks with the smell but what you suggested sounds good. So when filling a 4x4 scrog you would flip to flower at the same time no matter how many plants you have under the screen? For example if a particular strain needs to be flipped at 90% full using 1 plant, you would still flip at 90% full with 4 plants? What I had hoped was that I could use more plants so that I could flip at half the percentage of filled screen ( 45% full and then flipping to flower). Which would let me use less light for veg. Like a 250w covering a 2x2 area or a 400 watt covering a 4x4 that would supply 2 4x4 flowering rooms under 1000s. I'm gonna go ahead and start a thread to see if anyone else has something to say about this. Nice cubensis by the way. Do you order those bags with the substrate already in them and then just inject with spores? That looks way better than the jar/perlite aquarium method I used a long time ago. Only did it once but had 100% success rate with 24 jars. I was proud haha. Screwed most of them up when I tried to make an outdoor patch from the cakes though :( You have me thinking of doing that again. Last time I ate some, oh it was one of the most memorable experiences of my life! We went camping and after we got there we found out there was to be a super rare meteor shower that night with 2-4 meteors a minute. It was so goddamn awesome. We had lawn chairs that laid flat and we were in a field so that when we laid down, there was nothing but beautiful clear country night sky in our peripherals as we looked straight up. It was so crazy seeing those big ass bright flaming balls rip silently through the night sky. I do highly recommend trying that sometime. The other crazy part of that night was when we were standing on the river bank. The moon was lighting up the shallow water so I could see the bottom and all the little creatures in it doing their thing. I was leaning over just gazing into it when I noticed a tiny (maybe 5 inch) snake in front of my face just laying on the bottom waiting for minnows to swim by. I dropped a tiny pebble in the water and the snake ate it before it hit the bottom....... ( mind blown).
 

SFguy

Well-Known Member
damn Tavi. looks like u got some Spore issues... lol

i like the DIY ebb/flo buckets how big is your res for the system? topoffs how often?
 

Taviddude

Well-Known Member
Ok thanks a bunch, I'm not too worried about veg time as long as it's 8 weeks or less, that way I could have a nice steady rotation going. They would be in DWC buckets. The staggering thing you mentioned may be the way to go for me. I was wanting to harvest at the same time that way there's only a few weeks with the smell but what you suggested sounds good. So when filling a 4x4 scrog you would flip to flower at the same time no matter how many plants you have under the screen? For example if a particular strain needs to be flipped at 90% full using 1 plant, you would still flip at 90% full with 4 plants? What I had hoped was that I could use more plants so that I could flip at half the percentage of filled screen ( 45% full and then flipping to flower). Which would let me use less light for veg. Like a 250w covering a 2x2 area or a 400 watt covering a 4x4 that would supply 2 4x4 flowering rooms under 1000s. I'm gonna go ahead and start a thread to see if anyone else has something to say about this. Nice cubensis by the way. Do you order those bags with the substrate already in them and then just inject with spores? That looks way better than the jar/perlite aquarium method I used a long time ago. Only did it once but had 100% success rate with 24 jars. I was proud haha. Screwed most of them up when I tried to make an outdoor patch from the cakes though :( You have me thinking of doing that again. Last time I ate some, oh it was one of the most memorable experiences of my life! We went camping and after we got there we found out there was to be a super rare meteor shower that night with 2-4 meteors a minute. It was so goddamn awesome. We had lawn chairs that laid flat and we were in a field so that when we laid down, there was nothing but beautiful clear country night sky in our peripherals as we looked straight up. It was so crazy seeing those big ass bright flaming balls rip silently through the night sky. I do highly recommend trying that sometime. The other crazy part of that night was when we were standing on the river bank. The moon was lighting up the shallow water so I could see the bottom and all the little creatures in it doing their thing. I was leaning over just gazing into it when I noticed a tiny (maybe 5 inch) snake in front of my face just laying on the bottom waiting for minnows to swim by. I dropped a tiny pebble in the water and the snake ate it before it hit the bottom....... ( mind blown).
I know people flip at different times. Me personally would flip at about 75%. Most of your training will happen after you flip and the plants start to stretch. Every strain would be different so what works for one won't work for another. I spend everyday for about 2 weeks training during stretch.
The more plants you have in the scrog, the sooner you could fill the screen and flip.
You'll do fine with a 400 if veg time isn't an issue for you.

That's hilarious, I just got back from campin this last weekend with a campsite right on the river. Watching fish and all. The only thing missing was the meteors, lol. It was an awesome time. 7 of us all just vibing in the outdoors. I played guitar while my buddy played a hand drum. We had some wild stuff going on. Awesome Times.

Shoot me a link if you start a new thread.
Tav
 
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Taviddude

Well-Known Member
damn Tavi. looks like u got some Spore issues... lol

i like the DIY ebb/flo buckets how big is your res for the system? topoffs how often?
Yeah, but definitely a good issue. ;)

It's a 50 gallon res, and I have to add back around 10 gallons every other day or so. Really a slick system.
I had some of the stuff on hand like pumps, timers and the 55 gallon reservoir so it only cost me about 125 bucks to build. just 12 buckets, some grommets, tubing, and a large float valve. I'm only running 7 plants now, but I originally built it as a 12 bucket system. I put a gallon jug of water into each 5 gallon buckets to take up some space and it worked great. Otherwise a 50 gallon reservoir won't fill all 12 buckets.

Works great though.
 
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