20,000 Watt Medical Grow Op Construction
- Thread starter collective gardener
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recirculator
Active Member
Before you chuck your system...consider how nice of a drip system (recirculating or drain to waste) it makes...simply leave the controller on drain mode, add drippers (I use the DRIP CAPS on 4" cubes on top of 6" cubes), run your return hose to a drain (for DTW obv.) and elevate the plant buckets about an inch off the floor for better drainage.
I built a E&G styles system and decided I hated hydroton and found the croutons even worse so I decided to convert it to a recirculating drip as described above and am super happy with it.
When I needed to build a second system I made a "drain only" controller using a 5 gallon bucket with a Little Giant RS-5LL diaphragm switch.
Regarding the CAP system itself, I'm not aware of how the buckets are built, but I know the one from Green Trees (called multi flow) has lower buckets designed to drain really nicely. The bottom is slanted towards a recessed area where the hose fitting goes. Go look at their website you'll see what I mean. http://www.hydroponics.net/i/273005
If the Cap is similar that's great but if not the plants may have too much water sitting underneath them in my opinion.
I built mine with drains on the bottom for that very reason. If they had buckets like the green trees at the time I built mine, I'd have just bought that system instead of building my own. I also didn't want 1/2" plumbing now they seem to have changed that to 3/4" too.
Happy Happy and careful with those WMD
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collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Here's a few pics for the gang:
I guess the theme is really "perpetual". I'm one of a small handful of growers who runs a perpetual. If you look at the pics you'll se we have several plants in just about every stage of growth. The key in our op is to always have plants ready to go into bloom. The last of the heavily stunted plants are flushing. Everything else is looking quite well. The nute pics show how easy it can be.
I guess the theme is really "perpetual". I'm one of a small handful of growers who runs a perpetual. If you look at the pics you'll se we have several plants in just about every stage of growth. The key in our op is to always have plants ready to go into bloom. The last of the heavily stunted plants are flushing. Everything else is looking quite well. The nute pics show how easy it can be.
Hey CG, just finishing up week 7 with floranova bloom, floralicious plus, dry koolbloom, and yellow bottle final bloom and they started to foxtail. last run during week 7 i only used over drive and yellow bottle final bloom with no foxtail. you think the foxtail will make a big impact on yield and quality? what are your thoughts on foxtail? good or bad? thanks
Fnominon
Active Member
Hi CG, Thanks for the pictures with the nute rack, I always like to see what others are using. One thing I noticed absent on your shelf was a silicate? Do you not use silica blast or similar product? I also have to agree with jpill your advice to start using yellow bottle final has increased yields and quality bringing the plant back to life at the very end. I find that it adds about a week of growth and flushing leading to a superior product. I really appreciate all this information you give away freely on your forum, I have adopted your canopy system as well and the results I am getting are incredible.
tommyo3000
Well-Known Member
I think this is a do at your own risk kinda thing... I did somewhere between 5mL and 15mL per gallon .... Not sure, but I may have run it for a day or two or three...
I remember reading everything I could about the main ingredient, looking up other products and working it out...
I used it for fungus gnats... Not sure how effective it is for aphids, but it is mainly used for aphids.
This product makes spider mite problems WORSE... Not sure how much, but it is in the literature out there... It is systemic, too.. So it will kill root aphids, fungus gnat larvae, and then go systemic and keep whiteflies and shit away.. but not spider mites...
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
OK. Lots of Yellow Bottle Bloom talk. I have been playing with this stuff for a while. One thing for sure, this is an extremely powerful additive that can help you or hurt you...depending on when you use it. First off, what does it do? Well, in a nutshell, it forces new bud growth. I have used it before flush, in flush, and in week 5ish. Before the flush it can start new growth right through the existing bud and really fuck up bag appeal. Although new weight is there, it's not worth it. During flush it can add a little weight with no effect on bag appeal.
The best way to use it IMO is right after the plant stops the fapid growth phase around weeks 4-6. Basically, when the pistils are still clear white, but growth has slowed. I have found that Final can promote an additional 10 days of that rapid growth phase. Any foxtailing is incoorporated into the initial bud mass and does not affect bag appeal. It's best described as a "rapid growth extender". I keep pouring it on until the plant has given all it can and the pistils start to dry up. At this point a graduated flush begins.
I know I have promoted using it differently in previous posts. Like any powerful additive is takes testing to identify its best uses. Furthermore, the way different strains react can vary greatly. DO NOT just do what I do. Chances are it won't work as good as if you do some testing on your strain in your room.
I advise having AT LEAST one test going and no more than 3 going all the time. I do testing as a single elimination. I am not looking for some huge result. I am looking for 20 very small improvements over the course of years in the same room. Here's some of my rules for testing:
1. Isolate test plants under their own light if possible. I have a couple 600's used just for testing.
2. Use at least 2 test plants and 2 control plants. I like either 2 on 2 or 3 on 3.
3. Test only one thing. A single variable is an absolute necessity.
4. After a successful test, repeat it with more plants before applying to entire crop. Yes, it takes time. But, it's the prudent path.
5. Have fun. Run only as many tests as you can while still having fun. Currently I'm not running any tests because I'm in the middle of a complete shop renovation. Testing now would consume time I don't have. That's not the attitude I want when testing.
Many folks will see that I've changed many things since starting this op. Part of this is because I had taken some time off growing before setting up this show and many things have changed. Part of this is because every room and every strain is different. Testing is just a part of the growing process. The industry is moving forward as a whole. If you're holding still, you're losing ground. Continued improvement is a necessity to survival. I don't care if you're pulling 1.5 grams/watt of the best OG. If you stop improving, you'll soon be overtaken. We are the R&D in this industry. Any one of us can discover a new method or technique.
Good luck to everyone with thier testing. Please be sure to share what you've learned.
The best way to use it IMO is right after the plant stops the fapid growth phase around weeks 4-6. Basically, when the pistils are still clear white, but growth has slowed. I have found that Final can promote an additional 10 days of that rapid growth phase. Any foxtailing is incoorporated into the initial bud mass and does not affect bag appeal. It's best described as a "rapid growth extender". I keep pouring it on until the plant has given all it can and the pistils start to dry up. At this point a graduated flush begins.
I know I have promoted using it differently in previous posts. Like any powerful additive is takes testing to identify its best uses. Furthermore, the way different strains react can vary greatly. DO NOT just do what I do. Chances are it won't work as good as if you do some testing on your strain in your room.
I advise having AT LEAST one test going and no more than 3 going all the time. I do testing as a single elimination. I am not looking for some huge result. I am looking for 20 very small improvements over the course of years in the same room. Here's some of my rules for testing:
1. Isolate test plants under their own light if possible. I have a couple 600's used just for testing.
2. Use at least 2 test plants and 2 control plants. I like either 2 on 2 or 3 on 3.
3. Test only one thing. A single variable is an absolute necessity.
4. After a successful test, repeat it with more plants before applying to entire crop. Yes, it takes time. But, it's the prudent path.
5. Have fun. Run only as many tests as you can while still having fun. Currently I'm not running any tests because I'm in the middle of a complete shop renovation. Testing now would consume time I don't have. That's not the attitude I want when testing.
Many folks will see that I've changed many things since starting this op. Part of this is because I had taken some time off growing before setting up this show and many things have changed. Part of this is because every room and every strain is different. Testing is just a part of the growing process. The industry is moving forward as a whole. If you're holding still, you're losing ground. Continued improvement is a necessity to survival. I don't care if you're pulling 1.5 grams/watt of the best OG. If you stop improving, you'll soon be overtaken. We are the R&D in this industry. Any one of us can discover a new method or technique.
Good luck to everyone with thier testing. Please be sure to share what you've learned.
Fnominon
Active Member
I will share what I have learned so far with the Yellow bottle with the two strains I have tested it on; White Widow and a NL x Trainwreck strain. The White Widow does the best with it at week 6.5 to 7 if I wait until after week 7 the plant is to far gone for the stimulating effect to take hold. Application around day 45 will cause growth to start right back up and I use this growth spurt to deplete the nutrient stores in the plant and soil along with the flushing, so far I have not had any odd bud formation with the widow.
My NL x Trainwreck I have been using the same way as the widow and the growth results are excellent, however, with this strain the main top buds tend to grow vertical forming a tear drop shaped bud that looks sort of odd. I am going to try and advance the use of it to week 5 and see if this helps round out the formation of the buds, my only fear is combining this product with nutrients. I know when I used gravity by Humboldt in the past while still running nutrients the plant would get sever nutrient burn, growth would grind to a complete halt, and the plants would stop up taking water. I have also just began running yellow bottle on my first widow coco grow with first application beginning at week 7 and flushing is now underway.
My NL x Trainwreck I have been using the same way as the widow and the growth results are excellent, however, with this strain the main top buds tend to grow vertical forming a tear drop shaped bud that looks sort of odd. I am going to try and advance the use of it to week 5 and see if this helps round out the formation of the buds, my only fear is combining this product with nutrients. I know when I used gravity by Humboldt in the past while still running nutrients the plant would get sever nutrient burn, growth would grind to a complete halt, and the plants would stop up taking water. I have also just began running yellow bottle on my first widow coco grow with first application beginning at week 7 and flushing is now underway.
Yellow Bottle is some powerful stuff. first run was week 7 with over drive and final. this run was week 7 with nutes mixed in. i have another room thats finishing up week 4. im planning to use it during week 6 and see how it goes. mine has that new growth which looks pretty cool. my colas look way bigger than last week. When you used it during week 5 did you use it with nutes or did you use it during week 5 flush? i will try to get some pics up for you on how mine looks when i get the chance. thanks for all the information CG, information like this helps out everyone
Fnominon
Active Member
2 oz of what? I think flushing would be in order regardless.
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
The Gravity is totally different than Final. I have found that Gravity can affect quality. I am now just adding the Final to my reg nutes around week 5ish. It's very obvious when my plants begin to slow down. I go from daily waterings to every other day. Thats when I use the Final. Within a couple days I'm back to daily waterings.
Yes, I'm using a 1000 watt ballast for my mothers dimmed to 600 watts. More than enough power.
Yes, I'm using a 1000 watt ballast for my mothers dimmed to 600 watts. More than enough power.
Fnominon
Active Member
I wouldn't be surprised to find that gravity effects the quality of the final product and I am not much of a fan of it. The only time I use it now is when my plants seem to be running a bit long "over 9 weeks" and I want them to finish quickly. I actually quit using it for a long time, however, with the yellow bottle adding additional growth time I find that it may be useful if you want to accelerate the finish or in some cases with yellow bottle even out the finish time. It is reported to be a flower hardener and may put on weight, but these results are definitely strain dependent. When I used it on my skunk strain it seemed to put on weight, my trainwreck x NL strain gravity will make the nugs much denser, and my white widow strain it pretty much just kills the plant. Like the Yellow Bottle Final its a powerful product that I do not recommend for beginners and I am extremely cautious with its application.
tommyo3000
Well-Known Member
I would switch out that erz if it has been 4 days.. bugs should be dead, and this stuff lasts a while residually....
Glad it worked!!
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
Hey cg when you start finale in week 5 for how low do yo add it?
koolshades
Member
Thank you for the advice on the Avid. You have a Great Journal. I have read every page and learned tons of info from everybody.