1st Grow - Waterfarm - CFL- DIY Stealth Box - Spoetnik #1

SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Hi peeps,

I created a Grow Journal about a month ago when I was still in the planning stages of my first grow.

I'm now further forward, but the original plans (2-3 Easy Ryders, soil grow with more CFLs) have changed somewhat.

I'm using the same grow box dimensions (110 cm H x 60 cm W x 40 cm D), and I've stuck with using 2 x 120 mm PC fans (one intake near the bottom left, one exhaust near the top right) for ventilation. The fans have variable speed, so I can adjust the rpm of each fan if it gets too hot/cool in the box.

I have lined the entire inside of the box with diamond mylar.

I've been monitoring the temps and humidity in the box, and I'm reading a high of near 90 F with the lights on, and 60 F with the lights off. Are those ok? I'm a little worried about how cool it gets in there without any heat from the lights... I hope I won't need to fork out for a mini heater. I'm trying to keep these escalating costs down, and have already spent more than I would've liked.

I have 2 x 125W Ecolights (blue for veg, and I have 2 reds which I'll swap for flowering). The 2 bulbs give a total of about 18,000 lumens. I think that should be sufficient for the one Spoetnik #1 I plan to grow.

I also went and bought a single complete Waterfarm unit, with pump and 10 cm airstone. I've followed the advice on this forum, and drilled extra holes in the top bucked for better drainage/root penetration into the reservoir, and connected another air pump to the airstone. I'm not sure I'll need to use this until the roots start growing into the reservoir, but I'm open to suggestions.

I have a pH pen, but I'm still waiting for the calibration fluid, plus pH up/down to arrive. I bought VitaLink Hydro nutes for soft water.

I think I'll be germinating a feminized seed this weekend, once the pH stuff arrives.

I'm both nervous and excited. This is my first grow, and I hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew by choosing a hydro grow, but I couldn't resist the challenge. The other thing I'm worried about it the space - the box is pretty low, so I'm going to have to learn how to LST as I go. An experienced grower advised me against scrog simply because the veg time was too long, and this one plant grow could take up to 4 months. I guess I'll stick to LST for this one and see how I go.

Because I have no idea of the eventual size of the plant, I really hope it doesn't outgrow the box part way through the flowering cycle, but again I'll just have to wait and see.

The Waterfarm is sitting on a stack of books, which I'll remove one by one as the plant grows, rather than messing around with the lights too much. I'm quite prepared to adapt this approach if I think the lights aren't close enough to the plant. 5 - 10 cm away from the top is a maximum, as although the bulbs get hot, my hand 2 cm away doesn't feel the heat.

Here are some pics of the box and the accessories:



















So there it is. Thoughts? Anyone see anything alarming, or might this work? I'm hoping for 1-2 oz off of this one plant.. Realistic?

SunnyJim out.


 
cannatari

cannatari

Well-Known Member
Hmm... I think you would have better results with a DIY DWC hydro. You can pick up a 16 quart Sterilite container for under 5 bucks. The reason I say this is because in you small enclosure every cubic inch must be used to its best potential. A flatter and wider hydro would increase your resivoir size and increase your vertical space allowing you to grow taller. 2 medium sized plants in 3.75" net cups with 2 gallons of nutrient water would do well in the Sterilite container all for under 10 bucks. Sorry if you waste money on the Waterfarm unit but I strongly believe that the DWC will work better for you.

Here's the link on that Sterilite, looks like you can gain 5-7 inches in vertical space with it:
http://www.sterilite.com/ProductDetail.html?ProductId=443&Section=Storage
 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I figured the height would be a major issue, and totally agree that I should utilize every inch of space efficiently.

Having spent the money on the waterfarm, I think more than likely I'll try it and see how the grow goes. If the plant looks like it will outgrow the box well before harvest, I will probably build a taller box over changing the grow system - I've read great things about waterfarms and how much they assist in getting decent yields.

The advice is much appreciated. Keep your eyes on this - once the grow starts (hopefully in under a week) I'll be needing more of this kind of feedback.

SunnyJim
 
cannatari

cannatari

Well-Known Member
I will keep an eye on your grow. Happy to give my input. Best of yields to ya.

By the way, if you change your mind, buy 2 of the Sterilites. It will make res changes much easier plus you'll have a back-up lid.
 
cazman

cazman

Member
Great looking box ya have going on there. I have had troubles with the temps being that high as well, I think it had a lot to do with the room it was in. Very small fairly air tight closet, so I moved it out into a larger room for more circulation and near a window for ventilation.

By the way, where did you pick up the diamond Mylar material you have there?
 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Thanks, dude. I spent a couple of hours taping up the mylar on the inside of the box - I was super obsessive about getting it to line up just right.

I bought it from a local Hydroponic shop, but if you don't live near one, google 'diamond mylar' and you should get loads of hits to buy it online. It is pretty cheap, at about £4.00 ($6.00) per meter. I've read that it is really worth buying decent reflective material, and this one comes highly rated and is cheap enough to line a small/medium grow box (like yours).

I'm still running the lights, the waterfarm without anything in it but water, and the fans for a few hours a day as trial runs to monitor the temps and water flow though my waterfarm. Messing around with the fan speeds, so I hope to be able to keep the temps in check before I start my grow. Fingers crossed I find a good balance. Keeping them down doesn't seem to be as difficult as keeping them up during dark cycle. I think anything above 80 F isn't great, and below 50 F is equally bad. If I can keep the dark temps nearer 60 F, I'll be happy. Warmer weather coming, so hopefully that should help. I'll keep posting my records every couple days. If I figure anything out I'll let you know.

@cannatari

The more I think about it, the more I like your idea of making my own system out of a wider, lower tank. And having a 2nd container as backup for res changes/cleaning would be super helpful. I've already been thinking about a replacement bucket for my waterfarm for that exact reason. I'm not too enthusiastic about having to clean the res once a week without a spare bucket, so I might have to think about that one. Else I'll just have to suck it up and spend a little more time than I had planned maintaining my grow.

Like I said, I think I'm going to try using the waterfarm for this first shot at a grow. It should be a good learning experience, and I hope to get better as the grow progresses. I'm looking forward to trying my hand at some serious LST, too. Keeping the plant low should be interesting, so get ready for some crazy wires appearing in the box, and the plant being tied in all sorts of directions.

The guy who sold me the Spoetnik seeds said they grew to be pretty resilient plants, and they don't mind being bent around. I'll be putting that to the test.

As far as the sterilites go, using a wider and lower box could mean I might be able to fit 2 plants in there.. I'll know more after I get a successful single plant grow under my belt. Then I'll start fine-tuning stuff to maximize space, time, and yield efficiency. You really got me thinking, though.

Build a 2nd box and keep a mother in the waterfarm, and grow clones in a DIY DWC. Maybe.
 
cazman

cazman

Member
Right on ... Thanks Sunny. I think I have an Alt Garden Supply near me... Noticed it on goog maps this evening. Can't believe I never even thought to look there. Gotta love the internet. Will be making a stop there tomorrow. The space blanket reflects ok, but I need something better and more clean and professional looking.

My shit looks intensely ghetto right now, haha.
 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Sorry for my absence.

I germinated two seeds about 4 days ago using the paper towel method. They both took approx. 48 hrs to crack, although one had a much longer root than the other. That said, both were progressing really slowly and the longer root of the two was only a few mm long.

I moved my seeds to the cupboard where my boiler lives (nice and warm) to try to speed things up. They both seem to be doing well. One has completely broken though the top of the rockwool and looks like it is almost ready to show its first leaf. With the other seed, I can see the root forming just below the surface of the rockwool, so hopefully though the night she'll sprout too. They definitely seem to like the warmth of that cupboard as opposed to a drawer I had them in (ambient temp in the drawer about 60 F. Perhaps a little to chilly for baby seeds).

I think I'll leave them both in the cupboard over night, and put them under my lights first thing tomorrow morning.

Should I be giving them nutes as soon as they go under the lights tomorrow, or continue with just pH balanced water [5.8] for a couple days?

I'm really not sure how much/often I should be watering them, so I guess I'll have to keep my eye on them until I find a good schedule. So far, I've only had to water them once a day (the rockwool seems to retain water quite well). Also, when should I transplant the seedling rockwool into a larger 4 inch cube?

Peace









 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
So yesterday morning I took the seedlings out of the boiler cupboard and but them into my grow box.

26 hours later, and here are my babies:





The one on the right is about 3 cm tall, the one on the left about 2 cm. Both have some sexy looking baby leaves starting to develop.

They're on an 18/6 light cycle, currently 4 hours into their second day of light (2 x 125 W envirolights 6400k). I have them on a watering schedule of 15 mins every 4 hours during lights-on. They aren't being fed any nutes yet, just pH balanced water.

I might put them on nutes in a couple days, but I'll keep my eyes on them and hopefully they'll let me know when they need them. I'll probably put the seedling cubes into larger 4 inch cubes at the same time (nute introduction).

As you folks can see, I attached some cable ties to the feeder ring, because I was afraid the little cubes wouldn't get any water. Now the water drips down the cable ties directly onto the cubes. When I transplant into bigger cubes, I won't need the ties anymore (I don't think), because the larger cubes will be buried below the hydroton and the water should trickle though to reach the larger cubes.

I'm winging this - I really have no idea if I'm watering too much or too little, or if I should start them on a weak solution of my Vitalink Max nutes already. They seem to be doing well so far, so I'm pretty stoked.

Peace
 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
I think I might be over-watering my seedlings.

Up until this morning (well, last night actually) they were being drip watered for 15 mins every 4 hours during 'daylight.'

I noticed the baby leaves on both plants drooping down.



As this is my first grow, I'm not too sure what the warming signs mean, but I'm pretty sure this looks like over-watering. I stopped watering them last night (they only got 3 watering cycles yesterday instead of 4), and I don't think I'll be watering them at all today. The rockwools are still wet, so I think I'll let them dry out a little before I start the watering again.

Any advice? Is this over-watering, or are my babies telling me that they need to be started on some nutes?

Help would be awesome.

Peace.

 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Really? Sweet. I just thought a couple of leaves looked a little droopy and darkish. I'm probably just micro-managing this too much.

Thanks for the quick response, dude.
 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Does anyone know when I should introduce my seedlings to some nutes?

How old/tall should they be, or how many leaves/nodes should they have before I do?

Thanks.

 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member

I'm having some teething problems with my first grow - nothing major, but a couple of things I'd like advice on.

The first thing I'm a little worried about is the lack of growth. This isn't a catastrophe, but I planted these babies about 10 days ago, and I sort of expected more growth by this stage. It has to be said, however, that most of the new leaves have appeared in the last 3-4 days, so things look like they're picking up.

The second (and more concerning) issue is the discoloration to the tips of a couple of the larger leaves. I'm not sure what this is.. Nute burn?

My watering schedule is all over the place. I started off on a schedule of 15 mins every 4 hours in my waterfarm, but I think that was too much because the leaves were really droopy. Once the leaves started getting the problems with the discolored tips, I stopped the auto water feed (with 1/2 strength nutes) and now I manually water with pH balanced water only once a day (sometimes once every 2 days). They don't seem to want much water at this stage.. I'm not giving them nutes because I'm afraid that's what's causing the leaf tip problem. Might wait another week or so before putting them back on the nutes to see if the leaves recover with plain water.













My apologies for the quality of some of the pics - using my Berry camera.

Peace

SunnyJim
 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
A few days ago I created a separate thread in the Problems section because my plants were looking a little rough.

I decided to change the water in the reservoir about four days ago, not that I had really been using that water as a source... I had switched back to watering by hand with pH'd balanced water only until I could diagnose my plant problems.

Still, I changed the water in the tank and added a weak mixture of nutes, about half the strength I gave them a few weeks ago. I had no idea how long the roots would get either as the plants are quite short, but they had already grown through the hydroton and into the reservoir. I think it's about time I connect my airstone..

I still don't really know why my plants were/are suffering, but I think I might have introduced them to nutes too early and with too high a dose. I stopped the nutes for probably around 2 weeks, so I took a gamble when they looked like they might pull through and started them on the weak nute mix. I think it is paying off and they're liking it, because they are looking healthier.

One is doing better than the other in every sense - more leaves, more nodes, and fewer signs of stress in general. Both are improving, though, which I'm happy about because I was really worried about them. First grow jitters... I never know if what I'm doing is quite right, and if I'll do something they can't recover from.

I'm not sure if I should dump the less healthy one of the two, or keep them both. I just don't know if I'll have space for both of them flowering in there... Even if I LST to take care of the height issues, my box is only about 2 ft wide and 1.5 ft deep. Tight squeeze.

If anyone is reading this and knows anything about LST, I'd appreciate some tips on how to start it on my babies, with my particular set up. I figure as they've doubled in size over the last 5 days, they're starting to grow quickly now, so the first tie-down shouldn't be too far away. A week tops, I think.

Here are some pics. Please let me know if you know what might be causing the discoloration and wilting of my ladies' leaf tips, or if you see anything glaringly wrong with my grow.

The first four pics were taken 4 days ago when they weren't doing so well. That day I changed the water and started a new watering cycle with 1/3 strength nutes. The next six pics were just taken, ladies doing better and recovering from the stress I'm putting them through (I had an accident changing the reservoir water which I'll not mention..).

Comments welcome, as usual.

Peace

 

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SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member

-- Day 31 (from seed) --

Picture update for those interested, but also for me to monitor growth. It's super hard to determine how much they're growing when you're checking on them several times a day.

I think they're liking the nutes they're on - I think it was about 8 ml (Vitalink Max)/ 10 L of water. Looks like great leaf growth, although they're still pretty short at just under 5 in. One is clearly healthier than the other, spreading her leaves wide.

The bottom leaves on both ladies are still yellowing with dark tips, so I'm not sure if I should be worried or if this is normal behavior.. I read somewhere that lower leaves can die, so I'm a little relaxed about it.

The top leaves look nice and healthy, healthy enough to give me a hard-on every time I open my grow box.

I'm going to struggle with LST, with the main concern being the water ring on the waterfarm which cannot be lowered anymore than it is now, or it simply won't drive water through the pipe (design flaw IMO). In retrospect, I should've modified the pipe by cutting about an inch off the bottom of it before I connected it all together and started my grow. This would've allowed me to lower the ring right to the level of the hydroton. For anyone thinking about using a waterfarm, that's worth noting.. The problem with the height of the ring is that it is in the way of bending my plants. They're super short, but bushy. As such, they won't clear the height of the ring at their current height.. A little stumped at what to do. I don't want to modify my waterfarm mid grow - without a spare reservoir and with roots growing through the top bucket, it is really problematic.

One solution would be to remove the ring entirely. the waterstone in the reservoir should aerate the water enough, and the roots are already growing into the reservoir from the top bucket so they should be ok. I'm not sure if the bottom part of the plant and the upper part of the root system will dry out if I stop feeding them from top to bottom. Won't the submerged roots be enough to drive moisture up the root system and up the plant? I'm happy to hand water once every 1-2 days (as and when they need it). By doing that, I'll be able to bend the plants over (and away from each other) without the obstruction of the ring.

Another solution could be to leave the ring, and forget LST entirely. Maybe doing a scrog for this grow would be better. I could put a screen 12in above the base level and wait for the plants to grow into it. When they do, I'll be able to make them grow away from each other and fill opposite sides of the screen.

The most obvious blunder with this grow (it is my first, sue me) is trying to get two plants into one waterfarm. I really didn't realise how quickly they would spread (horizontally). I'm worried they might suffocate each other, so I really need to get them to start growing in opposite directions.

I was maybe being greedy with two plants. I was worried with it being the first time I had tried any of this, that I would probably kill one early on, or it wouldn't germinate, or that one of the two would turn out hermie, or something... you get the idea. The last one I just mentioned is still a possibility, and that would really suck if it turned out to be the case. I also wanted a decent crop, and fearing 14 weeks work on 1 plant might only yield me an ounce, I thought I could do better with two. Seeing them growing together in that one bucket, I think I might just stick to one plant for my next grow.

I'd really like it if someone posted a message. This is starting to feel like a personal diary, but I'd rather it be a discussion on how to improve my growing technique.

Pics:

--EDIT--

After having posted this, I thought it would be good to ask for opinions on whether I should dump the smaller plant to leave room for the bigger one to flourish. This is also not without problems, and the roots are pretty tangled now. Leaving dead root material could rot and cause untold issued later in the grow for the remaining plant. Feedback would be appreciated quickly - every day that passed makes it more impossible to even attempt to remove a plant.

Peace.

Pic # 8 gives me wood.

 

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SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
-- Day 34 --

Update:

I started both ladies on some LST, after having removed the feeder ring entirely.

This waterfarm is now strictly a DWC system, supplemented with an airstone in the reservoir on 24/7 to aerate the solution. Speaking of which [nute solution], I will be emptying and refilling the tank with a slightly stronger nute solution within the next day or two. I'll monitor closely and revert back to a weaker mixture if they start to burn.

Some of the earlier (lower) leaves haven't fully recovered from the first burn they suffered (entirely my fault, poor babies..). I'm hoping they will eventually die and drop off - they're fucking with the green symmetry of the rest of the plant(s).

You'll notice from the pics that both plants are only tied down in one place on the main stem for now. I'll let the top grow out for another 24-48 hours, then make a new tie higher up on the stem where the new growth has occurred. These ladies will be short and bushy, using as much of the horizontal space I have available in my tiny grow box (just under 2 ft). At least now that I've removed the feeder ring, they are now able to be tied away from each other. Things are looking good.

Rough guess: another 10 days - 2 weeks of veg, they I'll throw them into flower. I don't want to make the mistake of filling the box when they're vegging, or I'll absolutely run out of space during flower. That would blow.


50 bucks to the next person who posts on this thread.

Peace

 

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patlpp

patlpp

New Member
How much are you feeding her? 1-2 ml or 3-4ml? I think you should go ahead and let all plants grow as they are. Why stress the plants cutting roots out. They are dwarfs so I don't think competition should come into play since they are not depleted of nutes.
 
SunnyJim

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
KayAreOEnnEyeSee said:
Can't wait to see the results. Thinking about doing a bit of LST myself. Mind if I pull up a seat? Keep up the good work! +rep
Click to expand...
Not at all - welcome!

Yeah, I'm pretty stoked. The grow seems to be going well so far. A few teething problems, but nothing too bad. I'm going in blind - no idea what I'm doing, but trying to learn as I go.

LST, from what I've read, is a good thing to try, especially if you have height and light issues. I have both - a small box, and CFLs, which aren't great for canopy penetration. I'm going to try to spread my ladies fairly flat so the light gets to the lower nodes and eventual bud sites.

I post updates every couple days, so keep checking.

Peace
 
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