1000watt hps vs. 220 watt CFL ROFL

1982grower

Well-Known Member
The fact that you are bringing heat into the equation is rediculous. heat? what does that mean? you see the pics. i have a 17 watt hepa cooling the 400 + watts. Does heat even look like an issue in my setup? i have 40000 lumens at a higher par than hps at 1/2 inch away. how many lumens is that. The number doesn't fit on my calculator. Its math. do it!!!
 

homegrwn

Well-Known Member
no worries its a great setup and you can find that thread on RIU too.. I have problems with the crappy wallyworld airstones...bought way to many already...From things Ive read about ferts being mj specific I do feel that they can increase the performance of the plant in producing buds.. Also is a good way to keep the plant strong and its immune system strong but I wonder about the micro feedings and bacteria feeders.. Ive always looked at ferts as a way to control the N*P*K ratio and help flowering and growth.. but now theres talk about vit. B and all this micro feeding... Give me Co2 and some lights and let em shine.
 

1982grower

Well-Known Member
Par is sales crap. you are clearly a newb. besides you flash pics around of everything. no one can believe that someone with your intelligence could possibly grow weed. par doesnt mean anything? par is the factor that determines how muh of the lumens are actually being used by the plant. go read some real info and then come back. i pride myself on the cleanest most efficient grows and my pics are really mine. you have shown so many picsthat you say are yours that i don't believe for a minute that any of it is. you must have 5000000000 plants.
 

9inch bigbud

Well-Known Member
Par is sales crap. you are clearly a newb. besides you flash pics around of everything. no one can believe that someone with your intelligence could possibly grow weed. par doesnt mean anything? par is the factor that determines how muh of the lumens are actually being used by the plant. go read some real info and then come back. i pride myself on the cleanest most efficient grows and my pics are really mine. you have shown so many picsthat you say are yours that i don't believe for a minute that any of it is. you must have 5000000000 plants.
they are my plants and i can prove it on another forum where i have done a grow gernal. you miss under stood me about PAR what i was saying is light makers tell lies to sell you their lights they talk about PAR lumens to try and make shit CFL and LED lights look better than HPS lights and try to say how inefficient HPS are compeard to their cool 100% PAR rating lights, but the fact they dont grow more bud means nothing to you? its all bull shit sales banter proof is in the growing not what it says on the box or web page.
 

homegrwn

Well-Known Member
they are my plants and i can prove it on another forum where i have done a grow gernal. you miss under stood me about PAR what i was saying is light makers tell lies to sell you their lights they talk about PAR lumens to try and make shit CFL and LED lights look better than HPS lights and try to say how inefficient HPS are compeard to their cool 100% PAR rating lights, but the fact they dont grow more bud means nothing to you? its all bull shit sales banter proof is in the growing not what it says on the box or web page.
I agree it is very much in the grow and the user.. but it produces bud and better then anyone thought they would.. Im happy with cfl just hard not to enjoy one light one mover. Apples to apples they both do a banger job of getting someone that normally have to pay out the ass for smoke some good quality high :leaf:
 

9inch bigbud

Well-Known Member
i will agree with that. flouro guys will bash hps and vice versa but all are great for growing bud
I agree, but when ppl post rubbish like this 220w CFL 4'x4' floor plan, superior to 400w HPS

220w CFL better than 400w HPS that makes me laugh! the pics speak for them self not what it says on paper. the 2 grow rooms with the same amount of power the hps won in yeild.

now if what the poster who clames that 220w is 2x superior as a 400w HPS then the CFL grow should have yeilded almost 800g and not 270g

its quotes like this
220w CFL 4'x4' floor plan, superior to 400w HPS
that people read and think CFL's are better than HPS, but in fact they are not. you woud need to use more power to get the same yeild that a HPS would return.
400w cfl grew 20% less for the same power used.
 

onemorebowl420

Active Member
CFL's have a better spectrum for cannabis plants, but the problem is their light intensity. CFL's just arent' strong enough, unless you have a shit ton of them. The fact that everyone seems to have overlooked though is that CFL's are way cheaper to run. The best solution is LED's though, best spectrum and low power costs.
 

Brick Top

New Member
I used to be a member of the old Cannabis World and there were many very experienced growers there and a number of breeders too. Some were fairly big name but not the most famous, though some have since gained more fame, and some were very talented hobby/basement breeders and some were basically pollen tossers but the consensus opinion there was CFL’s are a terrible choice to make for grow lights. CFL’s have improved some since then but not dramatically and many that are mentioned by people here were available then and they have not changed in the least since.

I have been a member of numerous pot growing sites and am a member of four right now and I have never seen a site with so many people in love with CFL’s like I see here.

If used correctly, if the proper lighting, as in wattage to cover the full area needed to be covered is used, and all other conditions being equal HID lighting will beat CFL’s every day of the week, month and year when it comes to plant growth and bud growth/yield and the quality of the bud, as in density of the bud. For some reason many here do not believe that or just refuse to believe it and claim otherwise but that is just how it is, that is how the mop flops.

Many people hear write terribly about LED lighting but if high quality LED’s are purchased and purchased in large enough numbers and if used properly they will beat HID lighting and leave CFL’s so far behind in the dust that it is ridiculous but due to people having purchased low quality LED’s and not having enough of them and not knowing how to use the properly they have had poor results and then blamed LED’s for their own failures when it came down to not making the best choices and not knowing how to use LED’s.


There is a place for CFL’s when it comes to growing. If someone is growing in a PC case or small cabinet or something and they are incapable for some reason or reasons to supply adequate ventilation for the heat HID lighting will produce and they cannot afford high quality LED’s then CFL’s are their only other option. In any other growing scenario where there are other options CFL’s are the worst option to pick if someone wants the most from their plants.

I sometimes chuckle to myself when I read threads and messages where someone is all excited about the ultra-expensive high quality beans they just received in the mail and then they go on to tell what their lighting is and it turns out to be CFL’s and often times small amounts of CFL’s and they write as if they will be getting some super great crop of super killer weed. Well it just is not going to happen, at least not when compared to the results they would get if they used HID lighting.

I tend to believe that what has happened is many people who got into growing went into it with low budgets and others with what they believed were constraints that where they could not use HID lighting and what they ended up with to them appeared to be great results and they were impressed and they were happy so they then told others that CFL’s are the way to go. But then they never saw the results of HID lighting to go by and compare to so they do not know that what impressed them would have been far more impressive had they used HID lighting.

Unless HID lighting is positioned to low and it cooks the plants it is much more forgiving than CFL lighting. It puts off much more light and penetrates much better so if someone is off a little with the positioning of their HID lighting, again as long as it is not to low, the amount of light they put off is still enough that they do not see any problems unless they are way off with their positioning.

If someone does not believe that stop and think how many threads are seen here with pictures of stretching plants and then how the person says what they use for lighting and it is always CFL’s. The responses are usually lower your lights 2 inches or lower your lights 3 inches. Well if 2 or 3 inches will make that much of a difference in plant growth when that 2 or 3 inches is totally unobstructed how well will CFL lighting penetrate when plants grow taller, far more than that 2 to 3 inches, and have foliage that will obstruct light? What happens is every time you grow 2 to 3 inches you have created another 2 to 3 inches on the lower portion of your plants that does not receive adequate light.

Of course the answer to that is buy more inexpensive CFL’s and put them around your plants at lower levels and that will fix things. Well if CFL’s penetrated like HID’s do there would not be a need for that in the first place so right there you find evidence of how inefficient CFL lighting really is when it comes to putting off usable light and penetration.

Roughly 50% of the total amount of usable light that is created by CFL’s never leaves the tubes, it does not penetrate the coated glass. So while some say they only use a small amount of electricity compared to HID lights what they do produce in total only half of it makes it out of the tubes so if someone wants to talk about efficiency you have to ask if they mean efficiency as in low electricity usage or high output of usable light per watt used and if it is the later then HID lighting wins hands down every time.

The major disadvantages of compact fluorescent light bulbs are their inefficiency and poor light penetration. A bank of several compact fluorescent light bulbs can use as much energy as one HPS bulb, but will not produce anywhere near as much usable light for your grow. CFL’s will never equal the efficiency or output of HID lights. HID lights are the most efficient source of light a grower can use. HID lights produce five times as much light energy per watt of electrical energy than any incandescent lights.

You see messages that say lumens, lumens, lumens and some that say PAR lumens but what you have to do is figure out lumens per square foot.

Distance from Source to Meter: d (feet)

Light Source Output: Lo (Lumens)

Light Meter measures Illuminance: I (foot-candles)
Area of Sphere: A = 4 p d2

Illuminance is the measurement of how bright a point source of light appears to the eye. It is measured in foot-candles (or lux). The foot-candle is defined as the illuminance on a uniform surface one-foot away from the light of one candle and is equal to one Lumen/ft2. Which means a light source's output of 1 Lumen flowing through a sphere with a surface area equal to 1 ft2 would produce an illuminance of 1 foot-candle on the surface of the sphere.


Example: What light source output Lo (Lumens) would be required to produce an illuminance of 1 foot-candle at a distance of 1 foot?


Illuminance: I = Lo/A where Lo is the Light Source Output (Lumens) and A is the surface area (ft2) of a sphere centered around the light source.

At a distance of 1 foot, A = 4 p ft2, and so when I = 1 foot-candle, Lo = IA = 4 p Lumens (approximately 12.57 Lumens)

In other words, for a light meter to read 1 foot-candle from a uniform point source of light that is 1 foot away, a light source of about 12.57 Lumens is required.

In general terms: I = Lo/(4 p d2) assuming the light can be considered a uniform point source (no reflector).

From this, one can determine a light bulb's minimum peak illuminance (foot-candles) when one knows its specified initial output rating (Lumens) and the distance (feet) to the observer.

For a light bulb with an output rating of Lo (Lumens) and a code limiting illuminance to less than I (foot-candles), the minimum allowable distance from property line to the bulb would be d, where:

d = sqr_root(Lo / (4 p I))


When you do that you find that HID lighting is by far the better option.

When someone growing pot considers efficiency what they really should be considering the most is grams yielded per watt. The gram/watt ratio is lower with CFL's than with HID's. Since that is the case where is the most important efficiency factor for pot growers found, in using CFL’s or using HID’s?
 

homegrwn

Well-Known Member
Great info +rep.. there is always a solution unless the problem is ignorance, even then we learn. Im glad to see interest in these topics.. Keep em coming@
 

homegrwn

Well-Known Member
If you were id say tell them mother f'ers to up the anti with better lumens per watt and make some kits cheaper to draw in the buyers... I like the enviro 300 with reflector but 350.00 wtf? How do you guys feel about the DIY Co2 with yeast and sugar...? Seems like it would add suficiant increases ppm to get better healthier plants? Keep it real I love weed!
 

1982grower

Well-Known Member
never heard of the yeast idea but i am going to look into it for sure. 300 watt led for 350? thats cheap as hell. wheres it at. i'll buy five if the specs are right. and no i don't care about its lumens. i know better.
 

skiweeds

Active Member
I used to be a member of the old Cannabis World and there were many very experienced growers there and a number of breeders too. Some were fairly big name but not the most famous, though some have since gained more fame, and some were very talented hobby/basement breeders and some were basically pollen tossers but the consensus opinion there was CFL’s are a terrible choice to make for grow lights. CFL’s have improved some since then but not dramatically and many that are mentioned by people here were available then and they have not changed in the least since.

I have been a member of numerous pot growing sites and am a member of four right now and I have never seen a site with so many people in love with CFL’s like I see here.

If used correctly, if the proper lighting, as in wattage to cover the full area needed to be covered is used, and all other conditions being equal HID lighting will beat CFL’s every day of the week, month and year when it comes to plant growth and bud growth/yield and the quality of the bud, as in density of the bud. For some reason many here do not believe that or just refuse to believe it and claim otherwise but that is just how it is, that is how the mop flops.

Many people hear write terribly about LED lighting but if high quality LED’s are purchased and purchased in large enough numbers and if used properly they will beat HID lighting and leave CFL’s so far behind in the dust that it is ridiculous but due to people having purchased low quality LED’s and not having enough of them and not knowing how to use the properly they have had poor results and then blamed LED’s for their own failures when it came down to not making the best choices and not knowing how to use LED’s.


There is a place for CFL’s when it comes to growing. If someone is growing in a PC case or small cabinet or something and they are incapable for some reason or reasons to supply adequate ventilation for the heat HID lighting will produce and they cannot afford high quality LED’s then CFL’s are their only other option. In any other growing scenario where there are other options CFL’s are the worst option to pick if someone wants the most from their plants.

I sometimes chuckle to myself when I read threads and messages where someone is all excited about the ultra-expensive high quality beans they just received in the mail and then they go on to tell what their lighting is and it turns out to be CFL’s and often times small amounts of CFL’s and they write as if they will be getting some super great crop of super killer weed. Well it just is not going to happen, at least not when compared to the results they would get if they used HID lighting.

I tend to believe that what has happened is many people who got into growing went into it with low budgets and others with what they believed were constraints that where they could not use HID lighting and what they ended up with to them appeared to be great results and they were impressed and they were happy so they then told others that CFL’s are the way to go. But then they never saw the results of HID lighting to go by and compare to so they do not know that what impressed them would have been far more impressive had they used HID lighting.

Unless HID lighting is positioned to low and it cooks the plants it is much more forgiving than CFL lighting. It puts off much more light and penetrates much better so if someone is off a little with the positioning of their HID lighting, again as long as it is not to low, the amount of light they put off is still enough that they do not see any problems unless they are way off with their positioning.

If someone does not believe that stop and think how many threads are seen here with pictures of stretching plants and then how the person says what they use for lighting and it is always CFL’s. The responses are usually lower your lights 2 inches or lower your lights 3 inches. Well if 2 or 3 inches will make that much of a difference in plant growth when that 2 or 3 inches is totally unobstructed how well will CFL lighting penetrate when plants grow taller, far more than that 2 to 3 inches, and have foliage that will obstruct light? What happens is every time you grow 2 to 3 inches you have created another 2 to 3 inches on the lower portion of your plants that does not receive adequate light.

Of course the answer to that is buy more inexpensive CFL’s and put them around your plants at lower levels and that will fix things. Well if CFL’s penetrated like HID’s do there would not be a need for that in the first place so right there you find evidence of how inefficient CFL lighting really is when it comes to putting off usable light and penetration.

Roughly 50% of the total amount of usable light that is created by CFL’s never leaves the tubes, it does not penetrate the coated glass. So while some say they only use a small amount of electricity compared to HID lights what they do produce in total only half of it makes it out of the tubes so if someone wants to talk about efficiency you have to ask if they mean efficiency as in low electricity usage or high output of usable light per watt used and if it is the later then HID lighting wins hands down every time.

The major disadvantages of compact fluorescent light bulbs are their inefficiency and poor light penetration. A bank of several compact fluorescent light bulbs can use as much energy as one HPS bulb, but will not produce anywhere near as much usable light for your grow. CFL’s will never equal the efficiency or output of HID lights. HID lights are the most efficient source of light a grower can use. HID lights produce five times as much light energy per watt of electrical energy than any incandescent lights.

You see messages that say lumens, lumens, lumens and some that say PAR lumens but what you have to do is figure out lumens per square foot.

Distance from Source to Meter: d (feet)

Light Source Output: Lo (Lumens)

Light Meter measures Illuminance: I (foot-candles)
Area of Sphere: A = 4 p d2

Illuminance is the measurement of how bright a point source of light appears to the eye. It is measured in foot-candles (or lux). The foot-candle is defined as the illuminance on a uniform surface one-foot away from the light of one candle and is equal to one Lumen/ft2. Which means a light source's output of 1 Lumen flowing through a sphere with a surface area equal to 1 ft2 would produce an illuminance of 1 foot-candle on the surface of the sphere.


Example: What light source output Lo (Lumens) would be required to produce an illuminance of 1 foot-candle at a distance of 1 foot?


Illuminance: I = Lo/A where Lo is the Light Source Output (Lumens) and A is the surface area (ft2) of a sphere centered around the light source.

At a distance of 1 foot, A = 4 p ft2, and so when I = 1 foot-candle, Lo = IA = 4 p Lumens (approximately 12.57 Lumens)

In other words, for a light meter to read 1 foot-candle from a uniform point source of light that is 1 foot away, a light source of about 12.57 Lumens is required.

In general terms: I = Lo/(4 p d2) assuming the light can be considered a uniform point source (no reflector).

From this, one can determine a light bulb's minimum peak illuminance (foot-candles) when one knows its specified initial output rating (Lumens) and the distance (feet) to the observer.

For a light bulb with an output rating of Lo (Lumens) and a code limiting illuminance to less than I (foot-candles), the minimum allowable distance from property line to the bulb would be d, where:

d = sqr_root(Lo / (4 p I))


When you do that you find that HID lighting is by far the better option.

When someone growing pot considers efficiency what they really should be considering the most is grams yielded per watt. The gram/watt ratio is lower with CFL's than with HID's. Since that is the case where is the most important efficiency factor for pot growers found, in using CFL’s or using HID’s?
thank you for that! fucking pisses me off how im always arguing with ppl on why setup of several 600w hps will blow any CFL setup out of the water anyday! the people with the big warehouses full of plants, there is a reason why they use mh and hps, not CFLs.
 

BradyBoe

Active Member
How many watts does the sun produce in September at noon?? Where are you located during September at noon? When did you conduct this study? lmFao

Another guy who hates on CFL's because he's never used them. lol
 

BradyBoe

Active Member
that goes for all light eevry foot away from the light will lose 1/2 the light, when shining a 1000w - 140000+ lumns at 2 feet its still putting down 35,000 lumens + its over a larger area if you stick the 1000w in a cool tube and get it down to a foot above the plants and your giving your plants 70,000 lumens CFLs cant put out no ware near the amount of light an HPS light can. watt for watt CFL give off more heat than HPS you put 5 x 200 CFLs in a small set up and put a 1000W in the same set up the 5x200watt CFL room will be hotter although you can get the lights closer to the plant the heat from 5x200watt CFL is higher than a single 1000w bulb. for the home grower the most efficant light watts of power to light is the HPS
Incandescent aprox 20 - 24 lumens per watt and is the least efficient of all the bulbs.

Halogen aprox 30 - 36 lumens per watt make it more efficient than incandescent bulbs; bright light burns very hot.

Fluorescent (tubular) aprox 60 - 100 lumens per watt, bulb burns cooler; very efficient, comes in different color temperatures.

Compact Fluorescent 60 - 80 lumens per watt

Metal Halide 80 - 125 lumens per watt extremely efficient; give a brilliant light, good color rendering

Mercury Vapor 40 - 63 lumens per watt lowest efficiency of the HID type bulbs; dims rapidly; bad color rendering

High Pressure Sodium 100 - 140 lumens per watt extremely efficient, long lasting produces yellowish light; slowly lose their brightness with time

back to PAR its sales banter most of it. proof is in the growing not what a pice of paper tells you
hps have been used gor growing for a long time they are proven lights that grow lots of bud thats why almost every professional grow room green house use them over any other light they are more efficient at growing plants than any other light

more light for the same power used = more bang for the buck.
Please excuse this guy. He has ZERO clue what, "efficient" means.
 

BradyBoe

Active Member
I agree, but when ppl post rubbish like this 220w CFL 4'x4' floor plan, superior to 400w HPS

220w CFL better than 400w HPS that makes me laugh! the pics speak for them self not what it says on paper. the 2 grow rooms with the same amount of power the hps won in yeild.

now if what the poster who clames that 220w is 2x superior as a 400w HPS then the CFL grow should have yeilded almost 800g and not 270g

its quotes like this
that people read and think CFL's are better than HPS, but in fact they are not. you woud need to use more power to get the same yeild that a HPS would return.
400w cfl grew 20% less for the same power used.

It's a science. Put the BEST HPS grower up against the best CFL grower & average out yields, best out of 20. After that's done, there won't be any more arguing at all. MATH and SKILL will show which is more efficient. :) (:
 
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