1000w Coco Multi-strain Medicinal Grow

t0rn said:

guess you could say I "lollypopped" the plants.

Click to expand...

I guarantee someone will coin that phrase at some point...I like it allot b/c it's a very accurate word for the pruning..also the calc is operational...I'll shoot you the link..let me know how you like if and if you do I"ll tell you how to save it as a program.

http://maynard.homelinux.com/indymaynard/CAN.html

Heh, to lollypop a plant is already a phrase that was coined. It's one I do use because it's easier than saying I pruned the bottom branches of the plant. Monstercropping however sounds like shit and doesn't even convey close to what it actually is, at this point I'd say I took a clone from a flowering plant.

Hell yea man! That site is great, it doesn't even need to be turned into a program. Dude, your friend is the man, tell him I said thanks. Did he add the roughly 15% of micro nutrients and other stuff that may be in there other than listed on the bottle as Snow had said? Also, would the program only run on a Linux machine? I think it's great as a website alone, easy enough to bookmark it and use it.

glad you like the porgram I"m still tweaking it with him RE: what he should include the only things left are Ca, and MG, but everything else is as snow had laid out and as best as I could explain it.

No you don't have to have a linux machine at all..just shoot me a PM with your email and I"ll send it over ASAP tiny tiny file BTW

You should definitely add what's on the bottle, those are "guaranteed" amounts. Snow said roughly 15% after that as he's looking at his PPM meter, it must be some other trace elements or magic that the companies put in the bottle.

Damn, let me go see what's actually listed on the bottles.. brb

Ca, and Mg are not listed on any of my bottles but I know certain things do list them..the only thing I Have extra is Humic acid..about 1% or so.

Cal and Mag are on the back of the bottles of Botanicare.

Bloom has Ca 2.5% and Mg at 0.5%, so 3% roughly. The other elements comprise of less than 1.2% and could be generalized. If you went with just the NPK ratios alone and added say 4.5% for the rest of the trace elements as a general rule you'll be doing fine there.

Another thing to be considered is the PPM of the water you're using. RO water can range from 15-30 PPM where as my hard water at my house is closer to 200-300 PPM of random elements in the water.

wow you have really hard water bro...sorry to hear that...look on amazon for a oaktown ppm meter..they're dirt cheap (for a good meter) around 50 bucks..obviously your doing fine without it but something to consider for the next grow.

I have quite a list of toys I need to pick up, a pH meter, an EC meter, a min/max thermometer with RH, an inline fan.. etc. I just do what I can with what I have right now. When I do get them I want them to be good durable ones, I like nice toys. I just don't have the fundage for anything for this grow right now.

I'm not noticing any issues with the water yet. I do let my water sit out for at least 24 hours before I use it though in hopes that some of the chlorine with evap out.

Let me give you guys the ppm levels after I mixed in my nutrients last time around.
To 15 gallons of ~58-60ppm 7.4pH tap water rested for 24+ hours:

Canna A 90ml 4-0-1 4.5/0 Predicted ppm increase 65-0-16 73/0
Canna B 90ml 1-4-2 0/1.2 Predicted ppm increase 16-65-33 0/20
Actual Results: 820uS 410ppm 6.4pH
Deviance of Actual subtracted by predicted+66


Liquid Karma 5ml .6-0-.6 0/0 Predicted ppm increase 8-0-8
Actual Results: 928uS 465ppm 6.4pH
Deviance of Actual subtracted by predicted:+39

Calplex 3ml 0-0-0 3/0 Predicted ppm increase 0-0-0 24/0
Actual Results:1030uS 535ppm 6.4pH
Deviance of Actual subtracted by predicted +34


SeaMag 2ml 1-3-4 0/1.5 Predicted ppm increase 6-16-22 0/8
Actual Results: 1120uS 580ppm 6.3pH
Deviance of Actual subtracted by predicted -7

Nirvana 2ml 0-0-1 0-0-6 Predicted ppm increase
Actual Results: 1130uS 585ppm 6.3pH
Deviance of Actual subtracted by predicted -1


Protekt 2ml 0-0-3 Predicted ppm increase 0-0-16
Actual Results: 1160uS 600ppm 6.8pH
Deviance of Actual subtracted by predicted -1

Liquid KoolBloom 3ml 0-10-10 0/? Predicted ppm increase 0-81-81
Actual Results: 1325uS 680ppm 6.7pH
Deviance of Actual subtracted by predicted -82

pH down 1.66ml 4?-0-0 20?-0-0 1415uS 700ppm 5.8pH

Total of predicted ppm levels (w/o adjusting for .44 phosphate and .83 potassium anhydride) 95-162-176 97/28 583ppm +60ppm =643ppm

Total solution settled down to about ~1.38 EC, 690ppm

Deviance of Actual subtracted by predicted: 57ppm


The reason the numbers are so close though is because while some nutrients tested heavier than expected, others tested MUCH lighter. Even my measurements, as accurate as they can be, are still only approximate. I made sure to allow for plenty of time between each nutrient to be sure everything mixed evenly. It could be that I'm over calculating the ppm levels I expect the meter to read. The meter might be reading elemental phosphorus and potassium rather than their oxide state listed on the bottle. Calculating out for this actually resolves the ppm reading for the liquid koolbloom.

I'm also not really compensating for iron, manganese, silicon, or the unknown amount of magnesium in the LKB. Still, interesting that I can predict it within an amount of deviance.

Take from it what you will. So long as you find a method of measuring and prediction that proves at least reliable then the values you get will have a comparative value for you to apply to future gardens. It might be better to calculate for Phosphorus and Potassium, rather than P2O4 and K2O, when doing these predictions. I could be over compensating and there could be quite a bit more "mystery" extra elements in the nutrients I added first...

57 ppm off from what you predicted isn't bad man, wish I could give you rep but I need to spread is around, whatever that may mean.

Again, you're making me feel bromantic with all the numbers.

Hey 420, your buddy added the Ca and Mg on there, fucking nice work~

Got this page bookmarked for sure.

420Marine said:

I guarantee someone will coin that phrase at some point...I like it allot b/c it's a very accurate word for the pruning..also the calc is operational...I'll shoot you the link..let me know how you like if and if you do I"ll tell you how to save it as a program.

http://maynard.homelinux.com/indymaynard/CAN.html

Click to expand...

This link provides levels that are way too high. Almost 3x what they should be.

Something is up with the math.

I put together a spread sheet in openoffice spread sheet.

Plugged in the known elements, compensated for my water ppm level. I got within 10ppm of my actual results... which is CRAZY!
I've just figured out that my ppm levels are just 1/2 of my uS (more accurate version of EC). So I'm actually just looking to hit a ppm range that corresponds with a healthy EC. Canna suggest 1.4EC on the heaviest of the light feedings. It is probably a good idea to never do that with your own nutrients.

If I can find a way to get this spreadsheet to you guys I'll throw it up.

I'd like it Snow, or you could collaborate with 420 and get that site working correctly

I'd like it too..all info is great and as you so eloquently put it it gives me a broner..lol. Anyway I think I know what the math problem is and it's being corrected hopefully by days end.

Okay, I saved the spreadsheet as an .xls (to work in excel hopefully).
Uploaded it to Rapidshare, just click on the free download button.

http://rapidshare.com/files/442223750/TDS_calc_by_snowcrash.xls

To use the spreadsheet there are a few things you'll need to input.
Start with an estimation of your tap water starting point. This helps the formula's calculate your water hardness value and applies it to the Ca ppm level. Other tap water contaminants, from bromine to chloride, are taken into account but their ~ppm levels are not displayed.

Once you enter the starting ppm level you can then change the name from "Nutrient A" to whatever nutrient you are using.
Under the "label" column insert the element levels listed on the bottle. You only need to fill in the P2O4 and K2O boxes. The Phosphorus and Potassium boxes will fill themselves in.
Phosphorus and Potassium levels represent the elemental concentration in ppm of those elements, and not their oxide compounds which are listed on the bottle.
Some bottles will list Molybdenum at 0.0005%, which even at 20ml per gallon doesn't add up to a single ppm, and I've decided to omit that element from my analysis, as well as a few other trace elements not usually provided in any high amount.
Change the ml/gallon level to represent what you are adding. You cannot put a Zero as your used level (working that out) so for the time being just use "0.00001" in place of a Zero.

If you flip to sheet 2 you'll see some (older) tables that I have filled in with my own levels.

I recommend you copy the table from the first sheet, and paste it to the second or third sheet, and work on it there. Preserving the "master table" for you to make changes to later on.

Pretty unreal how accurate it is for several items all mixed together.
I forgot to add back in the ppm total for the finished mix, you'll need to do that. It's pretty easy.

Wow man, looked at the spread sheet for a few minutes, scratched my head, then proceeded to my daily gardening.

Looks like I'm going to have to up-pot the 2 poison clones I have going, the rootmass has been getting quite thick in the bottom holes of the 1ltr pots. My little room is full and some of the veggers aren't going to have a chance to flower for another 4 weeks. It looks like it's time to start working on training and pruning techniques. The 2 poisons are already 5 headed dragons and the 2 plants I up-potted a week ago are showing roots at the bottom.

After smoking a joint and taking a couple minutes to look over the spreadsheet I can see you put some time into it. I like the fact that you put up deviance for the percentile of certain elements. I have it saved and I'm going to start tinkering with it now. Botanicare has good charts on their website so I don't have to go bring the bottles in and I'm going to start inputting numbers and see what I get. I'll let you know if I have any suggestions on it.

Alright~ after tinkering a bit I found that the ppm of the solution I'm currently using is about 850. Using the spreadsheet I was able to calculate how much of each nute to use to bring my ppm up ~120 (12ml Bloom, 10ml Ripe, 2ml Hydroplex) in my transition feeding for next week. I wanted to transition Bloom to Ripe instead of the suggestion on the back of the bottle to go straight to ripe at week 4 in order to keep a little more nitrogen in the media for a greener finish.

We'll see if the plants can take 970 ppm (fingers crossed)

Thanks again for the spreadsheet man!

The ppm levels presented are based on the percentages provided by the company. These percentages are actually made from a ratio based on an EC calculation. My EC meter calculates as a 0.5 ratio, while European meters use a 0.7. So it could be that there are more calculations which can be done to provide a more accurate estimate... lol.

If you take your final ppm of NPK, Ca, Mg, Su, and anything else, and double that number that should give you the uS. Divide the uS by 100 and you get your EC.

So a ~970ppm feeding could be a 1.9 EC (easily), and that's probably a bit excessive.

I have the CNS 17 coco nutrients on page 2 (among others). What I'd do, personally, with your stuff is more like a 12 Bloom, 5 Ripe, and 2 Hydroplex. This should keep your EC under 1.4, which is about as I as I think you want it. My run off has been in excess of 1,000 on all my plants, so if you're at under 1,000 in and 1,000 out, that might work out great, and you could have the right idea of ~970ppm with just a bunch of run off.

As I've been watering with 20% to 30% I've noticed the levels in my run off are coming down. I could have gotten a lot more run off the first two feedings in the planters they are in now. Run off is just too important to underestimate. In 4 or so waterings I should have balanced out. I plan on using about a 700ppm to 650ppm, 1.3 to 1.4 EC, for my full strength solution from here on out. Every time I go over 700 it seems like none of my plants benefit for long. It takes time I think for the buildup to have effect. Gradually I'll scale down to about 500ppm around week 7. Then I'll be doing 1/2 strength feedings like you are between the full strength ones. Right now my plants need a watering every 4-5 days in the 3 gallon planters. In 2 weeks that should be once every 3 days, and then eventually once every other day. At that point I'll feed full strength once a week and run half strength the rest of the time.

Over feeding in coco is just too easy. The media retains a lot of what you add. Run off is key to keeping the levels in check and keeping those girls happy. I wish I had all those drain tubs like you have, that's like $200 in plastic tub though.

Based on what you've been doing, and what you got going on, then I say don't fix it till it is broken. Your plan is as good as any other. Maybe your nutrients will work fine at that level... only one way we're going to find out

Hmm, now I'm going to have to go through some hydro grow journals and see what sort of ec they're feeding at and why..

What rubber tubs?