welcome to arizona

[minnesmoker]

You do not have a right to a "public" trial. In most cases you do, but this is completely to the discretion of the presiding judge. This has been the case for a long time.

Free speech has not been muted.

Enhanced interrogations, yea, well, thank Cheney for that one.

All the others are just feelings, nothing substantive to support those. And only when it favors some and not others.

Can you name a few examples of each outlined above? Unreasonable search and seizure, can include the Arizona immigrant laws and enhanced interrogations can include Guantanamo Bay. Both Republican mainstays. And since when has the government interfered with Sigmund Freud and his postulation of free association?

The sixth amendment, text:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence [emphasis added]

A "free speech zone" limits your right to speech outside that area. And, the crime of "sedition" shows that speech HAS been muted.

We shouldn't THANK Cheney, we should publicly try him for treason and terrorism, and have him executed upon conviction, right along with the rest of the administration, and the current administration.

 

[cannabineer]

I humbly agree to your definition of free association, but will ante with the notion that none of this is any more true now than it has been for decades. A former boss of mine was Pope AFB Commander charged with implementing NSA satellite communications in the 80's. I am almost positive if we (the people) dive down this NSA rabbit hole further, we will see that we (the people) have been "tapped" for quite some time. Unreasonable search and it's subsequent seizure have been common practice for decades as well. I do not dispute this, and I do not argue that it is right. I only ask why complain about it now? Why only during the Obama (Democratic) Presidency? Why has this become such a right wing klingon?

I don't know why or even if this is a right-wing talking point.

I have only recently become aware of the depth of the civil betrayal. I've always had faith that the system would balance itself and return to a republic by, of and for the people. That faith has been shaken by things I essentially refused to examine and believe until recently. They aren't about red v. blue.
I agree that the NSa has always been watching us. But only in the last few years has its capability become such that it can listen to and watch everything everywhere. Also, realtime data processing has become such that the raw data can be comprehensively followed on demand. There is nowhere left to hide, not even the former fact that they can only mind a representative sample beyond channels marked "priority" for some reason.

I don't personally think this is unique to or characteristic of Obama's administration. I think Bush's Pat Act is the even bigger feature in this terrain. I've said it before - I think this exceeds anything partisan in implementation or solution.

 

[minnesmoker]

The ability to watch, along with their intentionally corrupting our ability to remain "free of unreasonable searches and seizures" is the act that most betrayed us. Not to mention spending tax payer dollars to undermine the integrity of the American cryptography and Information Security industry.

Bush wasn't the first, he just was the most boisterous and open about it, recent history.

 

[UncleBuck]

Why do you call a mixed race person "black"? Are you a racist?

because that is how he self identifies.

i never recall hearing him describe himself as a mulatto, which is the racial slur you chose to call him by.

 

[see4]

The sixth amendment, text:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence [emphasis added]

A "free speech zone" limits your right to speech outside that area. And, the crime of "sedition" shows that speech HAS been muted.

We shouldn't THANK Cheney, we should publicly try him for treason and terrorism, and have him executed upon conviction, right along with the rest of the administration, and the current administration.

We should examine a little further what "public" means.

Free speech is that until you incite.

 

[see4]

I don't know why or even if this is a right-wing talking point.

I have only recently become aware of the depth of the civil betrayal. I've always had faith that the system would balance itself and return to a republic by, of and for the people. That faith has been shaken by things I essentially refused to examine and believe until recently. They aren't about red v. blue.
I agree that the NSa has always been watching us. But only in the last few years has its capability become such that it can listen to and watch everything everywhere. Also, realtime data processing has become such that the raw data can be comprehensively followed on demand. There is nowhere left to hide, not even the former fact that they can only mind a representative sample beyond channels marked "priority" for some reason.

I don't personally think this is unique to or characteristic of Obama's administration. I think Bush's Pat Act is the even bigger feature in this terrain. I've said it before - I think this exceeds anything partisan in implementation or solution.

I just think we fundamentally disagree. Do I think NSA and the government are going a "little" far? Yes, of course. I actively subvert their ability to continually track me, if they are even paying attention. But I do not think it is the straw man in the crumbling nation that is the United States of America. I don't think we are crumbling, I don't think we are a police state, I don't think we are socialist, and I don't think we are anything the Fox News is frothing at the mouth about. You will see soon enough. If a Republican becomes President next term, Faux Noise will be talking about dogs in parks and little Johnny's baseball league instead of tyranny, socialism and the crumbling of society.

I'm just not buying the hype. Sorry.

 

[Nutes and Nugs]

I just think we fundamentally disagree. Do I think NSA and the government are going a "little" far? Yes, of course. I actively subvert their ability to continually track me, if they are even paying attention. But I do not think it is the straw man in the crumbling nation that is the United States of America. I don't think we are crumbling, I don't think we are a police state, I don't think we are socialist, and I don't think we are anything the Fox News is frothing at the mouth about. You will see soon enough. If a Republican becomes President next term, Faux Noise will be talking about dogs in parks and little Johnny's baseball league instead of tyranny, socialism and the crumbling of society.

I'm just not buying the hype. Sorry.

LOL, You haven't been watching Fox or Cspan or any other political agenda for very long.

I'm sure the nsa is enjoying this site.

 

[minnesmoker]

We should examine a little further what "public" means.

Free speech is that until you incite.

as to "public" there is no examination, there is no "interpretation" of "PUBLIC."

Can you show me that in this:

Fist Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Because, if you can't, than your statement is incorrect -- just because Congress Made a law restricting speech doesn't mean I'll abide by it, because it restricts my right to free speach.

 

[abandonconflict]

Freedom to infringe upon the rights of others is not liberty but tyranny.

 

[minnesmoker]

LOL, You haven't been watching Fox or Cspan or any other political agenda for very long.

I'm sure the nsa is enjoying this site.

As I've said, over and over: FUCK THE NSA. Fuck them in their secret little asses. Fuck them with 14" rusty bread knives. Fuck them with little boxes that make big messes.

 

[abandonconflict]

Fuck the entire fucking gov't. Stop believing in authority and believe in humanity.

 

[kelly4]

because that is how he self identifies.

i never recall hearing him describe himself as a mulatto, which is the racial slur you chose to call him by.

Whose the best Asian golfer ever?


Yep, Tiger Woods.

 

[kelly4]

We should examine a little further what "public" means.

You are reaching. We were taught about trial rights in junior high. Nice try, Clinton.

 

[futant]

I don't know why or even if this is a right-wing talking point.

I have only recently become aware of the depth of the civil betrayal. I've always had faith that the system would balance itself and return to a republic by, of and for the people. That faith has been shaken by things I essentially refused to examine and believe until recently. They aren't about red v. blue.
I agree that the NSa has always been watching us. But only in the last few years has its capability become such that it can listen to and watch everything everywhere. Also, realtime data processing has become such that the raw data can be comprehensively followed on demand. There is nowhere left to hide, not even the former fact that they can only mind a representative sample beyond channels marked "priority" for some reason.

I don't personally think this is unique to or characteristic of Obama's administration. I think Bush's Pat Act is the even bigger feature in this terrain. I've said it before - I think this exceeds anything partisan in implementation or solution.

Correct and now Canna add to this that NOW and never before in order to save labor costs government (regardless of political association) is implimenting poorly tested and in many cases poorly designed Artificial Intelligence programs to filter, flag, and interpret above said data in order to charge criminal or suspiscious or even opposing thought, speech, and behavior.

 

[Antidisestablishmentarian]

Fuck the entire fucking gov't. Stop believing in authority and believe in humanity.

Humanity is what got us government because humanity is fucked up.

You can believe what to want about humanity, but I'll go with reality: humanity is fucked up.

 

[futant]

Humanity is what got us government because humanity is fucked up.

You can believe what to want about humanity, but I'll go with reality: humanity is fucked up.

You are correct it is the value systems of each individual that has to change in order for changes to occurr for real; not changes in authority or regulation. until then we are fucked.

 

[minnesmoker]

Correct and now Canna add to this that NOW and never before in order to save labor costs government (regardless of political association) is implimenting poorly tested and in many cases poorly designed Artificial Intelligence programs to filter, flag, and interpret above said data in order to charge criminal or suspiscious or even opposing thought, speech, and behavior.

Oracle, Google, Microsoft, IBM, RSA, Raytheon.

These are the companies that write the search algorithms. NSA and CIA analysts are recruited from MIT, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, University of California, Berkeley, among others.

It's NOT Artificial intelligence, though. Artificial Intelligence is only intelligent if it can pass a Turing test.

 

[abandonconflict]

Humanity is what got us government because humanity is fucked up.

You can believe what to want about humanity, but I'll go with reality: humanity is fucked up.

Because people believe in authority.

 

[Antidisestablishmentarian]

Humanity has been fucked since our cave man days.

Btw, someone has to make the decision for the group no matter how small that group is. That's authority.

 

[futant]

Oracle, Google, Microsoft, IBM, RSA, Raytheon.

These are the companies that write the search algorithms. NSA and CIA analysts are recruited from MIT, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, University of California, Berkeley, among others.

It's NOT Artificial intelligence, though. Artificial Intelligence is only intelligent if it can pass a Turing test.

Agreed I stand corrected for using the wrong word. algorythm in place of Artificial Intelligence in my post would be accurate.

And its inability to pass a turing test is what makes it a dangerous and flawed solution.
Can most police officers, prosecutors, judges, & federal agents actually pass a turing test more often than they fail it?