Tags High Efficiency Lighting Garden

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Plasma lacks the red-far red necessary for flower. So the need for HPS to provide those spectrums in flower is not in debate and in fact recommended by Gavita to add the DE1000 to their 300 watt plasma to achieve full spectrum for flowering. This puts us @ 1300 watts per ~5 x 5. The reason they want you to run the plasma and the DE1000 together is because the added UV-B from plasma, which the HPS alone does not produce, is going to increase trichome production.

To adequately mix the plasma and HPS it's going to require an alternating placement pattern of multiple fixtures as these are both point source technologies. But take away that portion of the equation and hypothesize that a single plasma and DE 1000 will deliver the greatest quality and yield that a grower can ever hope to achieve indoors. Better than any other technology available. If that ends up being the case where does that leave the 1000 watt screw in base HPS lamps? Why would one give up a traditional screw base 1000 watt HPS and invest in a DE HPS of the same wattage unless the DE1000 significantly outperformed a screw base HPS? To achieve these results the DE1000 spectrum would have to be different in that it is pushing farther into the R-FR than the screw base HPS. And if that is the case, there is nothing about a DE1000 HPS lamp that cannot be recreated, should it be warranted, by a screw base HPS lamp that would mimic the exact same spectral distribution as the DE1000 lamp.

Now on to the 1500 watt HPS Ultra Sun. Since we're not considering watts/sq meter efficiencies this is a lamp that would emit ~2200 uMlole at 24" compared to the the DE 1000 that emits ~1500 uMole at 24". If one were to evacuate the heat and raise the 1500 watt lamp by 6" I've actually outproduced the area coverage/intensity of the DE as measured in uMoles by 50%. When dealing in a plasma/hps solution where watts/sq meter is a non factor and one seeks a higher PPFD value the DE1000 is not going to deliver, on paper, like the 1500 watt ultra sun lamp would. And these HPS PPFD values have not been adjusted up for the plasma contribution which under a field measurement will add another 20-30% to the total PPFD. I think it's also worthy to note that Sunlight Supply sells both the 1500 watt Ultra Sun advertised at a 206,000 (ahem) lumen output and the DE1000 on their website and they don't reciprocate by providing lumen output on the DE1000. https://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-15078-digimax-double-ended-lamp.aspx

The average gardener, who buys a limited number of grow lights and lamps over the course of their career, can be influenced by; what the hydroshop salesman tells them is the best way to go, what their grow buddy has been doing 'forever', slick advertising/marketing, or from their own research. If they dig in a little bit and learn what PPF and PPFD means they likely are going make their purchasing decision on which technology has the highest PPF/PPFD values. Yes they will get results but compared to what? Had they chosen to go with an AT or an IG, which approaches plant lighting differently, they would have yielded respectable weights, high quality herb and saved themselves a boat load of money over the years in utility and replacement lamp costs. But they won't know that because the higher PPF/PPFD being advertised won over their purchasing decision.

So I go back to V-C-F as a way of bringing this point back home. See Page 6 @ http://www.inda-gro.com/pdf/MeasuringPlantLight.pdf

If one were to look at the Lumigro 650 it would, on paper, be considered game over. It would appear we found the best light for plant growth as it wallops every other competing technology with a PPF of 1.8 uMole/Second/Watt. The problem for Lumigrow has been that when trialing a Lumigrow 650 against the competing technologies the plant response has not been positively influenced by the marketing claims of 1.8 uMole/S/W value and will yield according to the combination of spectrum's (or lack thereof) and the intensities which their panel produces.

If manufacturers and wholesalers are going to tout the virtues of their lamps with who has the highest lumen, lumen/watt, lux, uMole, PPF, PPFD values they will continue to perpetuate the myth that these values can somehow define which technology works better when in side by side garden trials the lower PPFD value light can be a much better deal when comparing efficiencies and actual plant photomorphology between the technologies. Which of course is why these forums (really the only place) showing real garden results with a wide variety of strains, i.e, party cup competitions, is critical in dispelling deeply ingrained notions such as >60 watts/sq foot can somehow spell the successful formula for determining the 'best' light or technology for an indoor garden.
You and I just need to sit down and session one day.
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Well things are underway, here's the plan...
Space/enviorment- 9x11 room, using 4x4 for this. Reflective styrofoam walls and open air system. 6" inline w/carbon filter
Plants- 16 Blackberry Kush clones
Containers/media- 3gal fabrics W/ local 420 organic blend and roots potting mixed 1bag(2cuft):1bag(1.5cuft)
Nutrients- Just teas as necessary. As a back up, General Organics. I will be trying the Indagro ESC treatment. It is organic and from the small scale test I did to save some scragglier clones, it works great and I would like to treat them all. But some will not be treated for reference. Pretty simple, not too many variables and all organic.
Lights-
-Veg- Two at120aw's for a few days. Then up to the Indagro 420 till they are filling the space. For the last week of veg, the at600 to get them ready.
-Flower- Will be the at600 the whole time. I will be shooting for 1000µmols-1200µmols in flower. And also maintaining outer edge intensities.
IMG_0319.jpg
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Awesome grow about to start in here Mr genes!^^^.......the ESC treatment being 100% organic leads me to believe its a certain extract *cough yucca cough*and clarified (hydrophobic) to make it look proprietary:-P ......just a guest though.

Chaz knows damn well that ultra sun bulb ain't putting out those #s even at initial fire........nice discussion between you two though.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
You and I just need to sit down and session one day.
That is long overdue. What part of the world are you in?

Awesome grow about to start in here Mr genes!^^^.......the ESC treatment being 100% organic leads me to believe its a certain extract *cough yucca cough*and clarified (hydrophobic) to make it look proprietary:-P ......just a guest though.

Chaz knows damn well that ultra sun bulb ain't putting out those #s even at initial fire........nice discussion between you two though.
Hiya P! The uMole numbers I was presenting were illustrative only. At a 24" lamp:canopy spacing from dead center they may very well be that high. That was not the point I was trying to make though. What I was getting at is that the PPFD values of the 1500 watt Ultra Sun when including the plasma are going to come in considerably higher than any other technology you would compare this arrangement to. Hell you can drop that 1500 down to the DE1000/plasma combo and most likely will still have PPFD values higher than any other technology out there. Which was the point I was actually making. If one were to base their purchasing decision on who has the higher PPF/PPFD than there would be no need for further discussion. The higher wattage wins as long as it emits between 400-700 uMoles.

As far as ESC Treatment it is not Yucca. There is no mystery. It is an 80% anionic linear polyacrylamide (PAM) and 20% Thiamine (B1). You can see the MSDS @ http://www.inda-gro.com/pdf/MSDS-ESCTreatment.pdf

The ESC side by sides are in a FB gallery @ https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.450771055043980.1073741833.211664092288012&type=3
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
That is long overdue. What part of the world are you in?
Norcal. Any time your up here or passing through let me know.


I couldn't wait. The IG went up today at lights on. The coverage is great and super even. It's the perfect light to get these girls ready.

Pics are right after lights on and the light got put up. All aboard the veg express.
IMG_0326.jpg
IMG_0327.jpg
IMG_0325.jpg
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
I will be trying the Indagro ESC treatment. It is organic and from the small scale test I did to save some scragglier clones, it works great and I would like to treat them all. But some will not be treated for reference. Pretty simple, not too many variables and all organic.
Blueberry getting repotted @ day 20.

ESC Side by Side.jpg
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
More roots=more fruits.
Before
IMG_2650.jpg

8 days later after treatment...second day after transplant
IMG_2673.jpg

9 of my 16 plants are treated with ESC. I had to get 2 new cuts to fill the space, so 2 are a different sourced blackberry kush...hopefully it's the same or close. I treated on of the new ones and left one untreated. So 8/14 of the first cuts, and 1/2 of the second are treated with ESC. All in their final 3galllon containers.

The two corners on the close side are the new cuts. And the dying one it saved is second from the right in front, it's about to hit it's stride.
IMG_2672.jpg
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
I definitely think rock wool and cool temps don't have the best results. They were ready to blow but wouldn't.
I pulled them all and put them in the aero...most have blown roots all over what was stunted in the rock wool. The aero isn't the fastest but I have success with it and should keep to it. Straight water.
These ones are all blowing out of the growth
IMG_2680.jpg
This one hasn't got anything yet, but this is how they all were when I pulled them out of the rock wool.
IMG_2681.jpg
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
So Mendo Dope's new album is out. It's called 10 pack, and produced by TGA/Subcool and Jill. I have been waiting since I first heard the tracks on the nerd, and all of them about herb(and a TGA strain). It's a super dope album...specially for us stoners. Mendo dope are really cool guys. 3.99 on iTunes...hard not to buy it. Plus they could really use the help aft they got raided.

[video=youtube;mguaLCzM9yQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mguaLCzM9yQ[/video]
 

FuckJeffGoldbloom

Well-Known Member
Producer fund the money necessary to get the project done.

There are music producers who produce music i.e. songs, then there are engineers who mix and edit the music tracks.... but also there are just producers.
Producers get/give money. Much like movie or tv producers.

I'm betting they were the producers who funded the album type.


FJG
 

El Tiberon

Active Member
I heard one of the songs from the album. The music was from an Eminem track. I wonder if they bothered to get permission to lace the track, reproduce it, and then sell it. If not, somebody could end up in court. Copyright laws are pretty clear about that sort of thing.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I heard one of the songs from the album. The music was from an Eminem track. I wonder if they bothered to get permission to lace the track, reproduce it, and then sell it. If not, somebody could end up in court. Copyright laws are pretty clear about that sort of thing.
there is no precident for copyright infringement on beats or intsrumentals. Any song used. If every 3rd bar is changed, no sample rights, or royalties have to be paid. That's what they did on the 70's show. One of my teachers in audio school was the music engineer for the 70's show. There's 2 type of copyrights, state and federal. Copyrights on music do not hold up outside the U.S. Unless you have paid for copyrights in every country that does it. On instrumentals its pointless to copyright. Its almost impossible to prove in court. There has never been a case won or precident set over instrumentals. Any song with lyrics is a whole different scenario.

there's all types of producers.

executive producers - money
beat producers - makes beats and dj's(vinyl)
engineer producers - mixing, mastering, recording, post production, video editing, etc..
 

El Tiberon

Active Member
This is the track they made at the beginning of the video.

[video=youtube_share;TVexVjvQ1i4]http://youtu.be/TVexVjvQ1i4[/video]
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Produced? Do you know what music producers do and the skills required? This isn't as easy as taking someone else's soil recipe and calling it their own. Playing air guitar doesn't qualify you as a "producer".

http://www.conradaskland.com/what_does_music_producer_do.html


I heard one of the songs from the album. The music was from an Eminem track. I wonder if they bothered to get permission to lace the track, reproduce it, and then sell it. If not, somebody could end up in court. Copyright laws are pretty clear about that sort of thing.
This is the track they made at the beginning of the video.
Seems like you need a hug,

They produced it as in paid for it, not to mention own all the strains that every song is named after/about...never did I said(or they) that they did anything for the actual music. If you look on the album it's probably got all the credit to who and where it is deserved. They talk about their DJ and mixer and all other shit that made the whole thing possible in the episode where they are in the studio.

Mendo dope has tons of original samples they use too. Just because they did one parody(and it's great) doesn't mean they rip things or can't make good music. You obviously have some dislike for with mendo or TGA. But you can hate all you want...free country bro. The song you are talking about is the one I posted in the first place...takes 2 seconds to look.

I like the whole album and most of the "planters of the trees" album, plus I support TGA. So I shared for others to enjoy in case they liked it like I do. And other than looking for the stupidest things to nit pick at...you never actually said you didn't like it either.

As for super soil...my dad has had pretty much the exact SS recipe for over 35years. SS is no secret to any long time grower or any normal(non-ganja) farmer. It has been around way before sub or vics high were online, or there even was an online. Sub had great success and shared with others for years and still does. When someone gets great results, people want results like them too, no matter who you are. Sub's recipe it is still out there for anyone to make their own, and so is vics, and a couple others with a name. But it was a great idea to officially bag it like TGAsupersoil(owned by dioxide, not Sub or Jill) did...someone had to do it.
 

Loonquawl

Well-Known Member
Produced? Do you know what music producers do and the skills required? This isn't as easy as taking someone else's soil recipe and calling it their own. Playing air guitar doesn't qualify you as a "producer".

Producer fund the money necessary to get the project done.

There are music producers who produce music i.e. songs, then there are engineers who mix and edit the music tracks.... but also there are just producers.
Producers get/give money. Much like movie or tv producers.

I'm betting they were the producers who funded the album type.


FJG
I heard one of the songs from the album. The music was from an Eminem track. I wonder if they bothered to get permission to lace the track, reproduce it, and then sell it. If not, somebody could end up in court. Copyright laws are pretty clear about that sort of thing.
there is no precident for copyright infringement on beats or intsrumentals. Any song used. If every 3rd bar is changed, no sample rights, or royalties have to be paid. That's what they did on the 70's show. One of my teachers in audio school was the music engineer for the 70's show. There's 2 type of copyrights, state and federal. Copyrights on music do not hold up outside the U.S. Unless you have paid for copyrights in every country that does it. On instrumentals its pointless to copyright. Its almost impossible to prove in court. There has never been a case won or precident set over instrumentals. Any song with lyrics is a whole different scenario.

there's all types of producers.

executive producers - money
beat producers - makes beats and dj's(vinyl)
engineer producers - mixing, mastering, recording, post production, video editing, etc..
Untitled.jpg

Do these guys search all forum post for "Subcool" once an hour? They must get a badge for being the first to fire a negative post at their "We hate everything to do with Subcool" club.
 
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