Free enterprise

[canndo]

Sounds like a scam and it's small enough financially to not be prudent to fight. You'd have to fight on principle. I'm guessing the scammers are counting on people not doing that.

I'm talking about the exorbitant fees to get your car out of the hostage situation, they have the right to not let you park there.

I think, by the nature of the tow guy's sly, slightly appologetic response that many wind up in my situation. No, it isn't really enough to fight, I would have to sue in that city or county. I would have to locate the owner of the property and serve him, I could sue only for the cost of the tow and perhaps my wife's gas. I would be unlikely to be awarded compensation for any time or further money and the entire trial would rest upon the definition of "commuter". In the most technical sense, I WAS a commuter. I left my car in order to ride with another for a purpose other than to perhaps get the parts to fix my car, or make arrangements to have it moved from that spot.


The worst part, as pointed out by my wife, is that there was a home depot two blocks away. (although I suspect that the no commuter provision would still hold, who could suspect in that case that this was a commuter car)

Still, the point or issue is the abuse of free enterprise without governmental regulations. This is not a speed trap and ultimately there is a case where the "consumer" has no ability to adjust his options. I could (and will) boycott the businesses but were I to do so, it would only hurt innocent business owners. I could complain about the towing company but they did nothing wrong, towing a car under a fairly negotiated contract with the other party (not me). I could of course try to prove a kickback but how exactly could I accomplish that? and how culpable is the towing company in that situation? It is likely that had the owner of the towing company refused such an arrangement, another one would surely take it, and that one might well be further from the scene.

That presents another question. The owner of the property is well within his rights to hire any towing company at any distance from his lot. He could (I believe) have commisioned a towing company 100 miles from his lot, increasing not only his but the towing companies ultimate "take" to many times the rate I paid.

 

[canndo]

There is also an emotional aspect to this.

I was in the midst of a difficult divorce - VERY difficult. My wife at the time worked in the same place I did. She had title to my car. While we were dickering over who owned what, I gave her the money each month to pay for the car. I had only a few more payments left and I had outfitted the car as I usually do upon finishing payments - new tires, new brakes, lots of extras - almost like a new car, but now free - no payments. I was awarded the car in court but discovered that she had not made the payments. All the while I was hiding my car on a back street and walking from there to work. After I had the court award, AND made arrangements to pay the car off, I thought it was safe to park at the company lot.

Sure enough, the car was towed that very day, while all of my fellow employees looked on. We know my ex had called the lender. I stopped the tow truck and demanded they call the finance company. Nope, no check (it arrived the next day). Of course my wife, in whom's name the car was registered refused to go to the impound.

The towing company, in their haste, sheared the rear view mirror off of the car. I stopped payment on the check ($1200) knowing that I would never convince my soon to be ex to help. I found that I was dinged driver points for the "accident" with the mirror, which drove my insurance up when I had to get a piece of junk in order to drive to work.

So I am still bothered about this sort of thing.

 

[desert dude]

Last weekend I agreed to attend a permaculture seminar with a friend. I was running a little late and we decided I should park my car at a half way point so we could go together in his car.

It was a Saturday.

I rounded a Mcdonalds, looked for a place where my car would not take up a valuable parking space and found a row of businesse that were closed on the weekends. I studied parking limitation sign.

No vehicles over 2 tons
No over night parking
No posting for sale signs on cars
No commuters.


I was none of those, so I parked.

When I got back, my car was nowhere to be seen, nor was any car in the two rows in front of those closed busnesses.

I called the police thinking it might have been stolen and they recommended I call the number of the towing company. Sure enough, they had my car.

Now a tow in this part of the country isn't but a few dollars a mile and half a hundred for the service. They make an honest living that way.

But, over the phone I found out that my car was going to cost $430 to get out of impound. When I got there I saw the schedule, $186 dollars an hour.

When I asked the tow guy when he had picked it up, he pointed to my release slip, my car had been parked an hour. He said that they had been called from his home. Hence the extra charges, pluss the extra charge for his coming down to let me have my car. I asked if there was some sort of fine he relayed to the county or city and he said no. I asked how I could have done anything wrong, parking in an empty parking lot on a Saturday morning and he shrugged. "we are under contract and we tow when we are called". Because I was not angry with him, simply accepting that he had nothing to do with my misfortune, I asked "so.... how much do the owners of the property get out of this... contract". He then gave this half apologetic smile, a shrug, and said "well, kickbacks are illegal".

I don't know how much of this inordinant cost they gave back to the owner but I do know that towing a vehicle 7 miles and storing it for 7 hours doesn't cost $430. I also know that I had no choice, I could not shop for a cheaper deal, every day I spent looking for a legal method of fighting this extortion would cost me 52 more dollars and after three days a lein would be placed on my vehicle.

How, in a country where free enterprise magicaly reigns itself in, and everything in this system winds up being equitable, might this bit of extortion be preempted? Or.... might it take some government regulation to protect us from such theft?

Sue them in small claims court, both the business owner and the towing company. You have a reasonably good case. You should sue and ask the court to award you the difference between a normal tow and this extorted tow. They fucked you over, now it is your turn to fuck them over. It will cost you about $50 to sue in small claims court and they will have to come to court to defend themselves or lose by default.

I sued General Steel (they make metal buildings) in small claims court and they gave up and refunded my money rather than waste their time in court. By the way, if anybody here is considering buying/erecting a metal building I highly caution against doing business with General Steel, they are complete crooks. You can Google them to see for yourself.

 

[beenthere]

About 3, I was another hour from there. At first I suspected that it was simply an issue of time. A car left unatended for an extended period is a hazard, a draw to undesirables. Were I operating such a place I am sure that I would consider having a car taken away after 8 or 9 hours perhaps. That is exactly why I asked when the car was towed. It was towed at aprox. 9:20. I parked at almost exactly 8:00. No one could have known if I intended to park for two hours or ten.

Then I agree with you, that's pretty fucked up dude.

 

[abandonconflict]

There is also an emotional aspect to this.

I was in the midst of a difficult divorce - VERY difficult. My wife at the time worked in the same place I did. She had title to my car. While we were dickering over who owned what, I gave her the money each month to pay for the car. I had only a few more payments left and I had outfitted the car as I usually do upon finishing payments - new tires, new brakes, lots of extras - almost like a new car, but now free - no payments. I was awarded the car in court but discovered that she had not made the payments. All the while I was hiding my car on a back street and walking from there to work. After I had the court award, AND made arrangements to pay the car off, I thought it was safe to park at the company lot.

Sure enough, the car was towed that very day, while all of my fellow employees looked on. We know my ex had called the lender. I stopped the tow truck and demanded they call the finance company. Nope, no check (it arrived the next day). Of course my wife, in whom's name the car was registered refused to go to the impound.

The towing company, in their haste, sheared the rear view mirror off of the car. I stopped payment on the check ($1200) knowing that I would never convince my soon to be ex to help. I found that I was dinged driver points for the "accident" with the mirror, which drove my insurance up when I had to get a piece of junk in order to drive to work.

So I am still bothered about this sort of thing.

I'm sorry to hear that. It is a hard time. Love the piece of junk. I hope you don't let any of your future girlfriends or wives own your testicles. I mean your car. Sorry, I didn't mean to type that.

 

[ginwilly]

There is also an emotional aspect to this.

I was in the midst of a difficult divorce - VERY difficult. My wife at the time worked in the same place I did. She had title to my car. While we were dickering over who owned what, I gave her the money each month to pay for the car. I had only a few more payments left and I had outfitted the car as I usually do upon finishing payments - new tires, new brakes, lots of extras - almost like a new car, but now free - no payments. I was awarded the car in court but discovered that she had not made the payments. All the while I was hiding my car on a back street and walking from there to work. After I had the court award, AND made arrangements to pay the car off, I thought it was safe to park at the company lot.

Sure enough, the car was towed that very day, while all of my fellow employees looked on. We know my ex had called the lender. I stopped the tow truck and demanded they call the finance company. Nope, no check (it arrived the next day). Of course my wife, in whom's name the car was registered refused to go to the impound.

The towing company, in their haste, sheared the rear view mirror off of the car. I stopped payment on the check ($1200) knowing that I would never convince my soon to be ex to help. I found that I was dinged driver points for the "accident" with the mirror, which drove my insurance up when I had to get a piece of junk in order to drive to work.

So I am still bothered about this sort of thing.

holy shit! I'm laughing with you in a gallows humor type of disgusted laugh. I have ex-wife stories too.

Seriously though, depending on how pissed I was, and if I went through the trouble you did make sure you parked in a proper place, I'd be pretty pissed, I'd take them to small claims like suggested earlier.

 

[canndo]

I'm sorry to hear that. It is a hard time. Love the piece of junk. I hope you don't let any of your future girlfriends or wives own your testicles. I mean your car. Sorry, I didn't mean to type that.

No, the woman I have now is magnificent, really. I just celebrated my 6th year of marriage with her, after living with her for 10. Curiously, when she first came to work at the place where my ex and I worked, my ex, not knowing her at all, nor she either of us, went on about how horrible I was. She stayed away from me for a while until one day she caught my ex hunched over behind my cubicle listening to me talking to my lawyer about our pending divorce. When my ex was caught she got red faced and asked my now current wife not to tell me what she had seen.

Of course, she went to me directly and told me what she had seen. That was how we were introduced.

 

[abandonconflict]

I refuse to ever again involve the gov't in my love life.

 

[beenthere]

I sued General Steel (they make metal buildings) in small claims court and they gave up and refunded my money rather than waste their time in court. By the way, if anybody here is considering buying/erecting a metal building I highly caution against doing business with General Steel, they are complete crooks. You can Google them to see for yourself.

About eight years ago we were putting in a covered riding arena for my wife.
This POS scamming company General Steel quoted us $95k for a 100" x 160" steel arena completely installed! I asked many questions about their definition of complete, They said everything was included with the exception of building permits and site clearing. So a salesman came to out to our property with a contract and his hand out for a down payment, I asked him again, what other costs would we incur other than permit fees and the site clearing, he said other than some small grandstand seating they offer, nothing.

I then asked to read the contract, I found the exclusion clauses and right there in black and white it said the customer is responsible for all excavation, including footings, concrete, steel (rebar)and local engineering and review, just to mention a few.

When I asked him about this he told me that they would take care of everything and he would call his supervisor (the closer) to confirm it, verbally! LOL

The hidden costs would have easily added another $15-20k

Yeah, this company is a fucking scam, glad you got a piece of um.

 

[schuylaar]

Sue them in small claims court, both the business owner and the towing company. You have a reasonably good case. You should sue and ask the court to award you the difference between a normal tow and this extorted tow. They fucked you over, now it is your turn to fuck them over. It will cost you about $50 to sue in small claims court and they will have to come to court to defend themselves or lose by default.

I sued General Steel (they make metal buildings) in small claims court and they gave up and refunded my money rather than waste their time in court. By the way, if anybody here is considering buying/erecting a metal building I highly caution against doing business with General Steel, they are complete crooks. You can Google them to see for yourself.

mr. green pro tip

small claims here in florida is expensive almost 500$ to file..lol when you have a crazy neighbor who's cheap as hell threaten you.. just keep on laughing..no way a cheap ass is going to spend that kind of money when they have a chance for judgement against them in open court

 

[canndo]

mr. green pro tip

small claims here in florida is expensive almost 500$ to file..lol when you have a crazy neighbor who's cheap as hell threaten you.. just keep on laughing..no way a cheap ass is going to spend that kind of money when they have a chance for judgement against them in open court

One of the last equalizers, the last repite of the common man who feels wronged is small claims court, no lawyers (save for corporate representation), no juries, a simple proceedure. How can it be that it cost $500 to file when often the claim is under a thousand. Mine will certainly be. There is something wrong with a state that has a 500 dollar filing fee, it seems that the common man is screwed yet again if this is the case.

 

[desert dude]

I refuse to ever again involve the gov't in my love life.

So, you're not gay. Good for you!

 

[desert dude]

About eight years ago we were putting in a covered riding arena for my wife.
This POS scamming company General Steel quoted us $95k for a 100" x 160" steel arena completely installed! I asked many questions about their definition of complete, They said everything was included with the exception of building permits and site clearing. So a salesman came to out to our property with a contract and his hand out for a down payment, I asked him again, what other costs would we incur other than permit fees and the site clearing, he said other than some small grandstand seating they offer, nothing.

I then asked to read the contract, I found the exclusion clauses and right there in black and white it said the customer is responsible for all excavation, including footings, concrete, steel (rebar)and local engineering and review, just to mention a few.

When I asked him about this he told me that they would take care of everything and he would call his supervisor (the closer) to confirm it, verbally! LOL

The hidden costs would have easily added another $15-20k

Yeah, this company is a fucking scam, glad you got a piece of um.

Very similar to my own experience with them. The icing on the cake for me was that a district attorney in Northern California heard about my success in small claims court and contacted me because she was in the process of prosecuting General Steel for violations of consumer protection laws. I had meticulously documented all of my correspondence with them (verbal and written). She used that in her case. I don't know how it came out because I was in Iraq but I hope she reamed them a new asshole. General Steel was also successfully prosecuted in several other western states. I would not piss on General Steel's CEO if he was on fire.

 

[desert dude]

One of the last equalizers, the last repite of the common man who feels wronged is small claims court, no lawyers (save for corporate representation), no juries, a simple proceedure. How can it be that it cost $500 to file when often the claim is under a thousand. Mine will certainly be. There is something wrong with a state that has a 500 dollar filing fee, it seems that the common man is screwed yet again if this is the case.

I agree. In my case, even if it had cost $500 to file, I would have done it. Their lawyer was a total asshole too, so that made the win even more satisfying. By the way, that is the only time I have ever been involved in a legal dispute.

 

[beenthere]

Very similar to my own experience with them. The icing on the cake for me was that a district attorney in Northern California heard about my success in small claims court and contacted me because she was in the process of prosecuting General Steel for violations of consumer protection laws. I had meticulously documented all of my correspondence with them (verbal and written). She used that in her case. I don't know how it came out because I was in Iraq but I hope she reamed them a new asshole. General Steel was also successfully prosecuted in several other western states. I would not piss on General Steel's CEO if he was on fire.

Dude, tell me your sale associate/designer wasn't named Dave! LOL

 

[Wavels]

Small claims is the way to go.
In addition I think you should call and write (email) the Mayor and any other relevant municipal officials holding office in whatever burg this egregious abuse took place in.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease....time to squeak up a storm.

Good Luck

 

[desert dude]

Dude, tell me your sale associate/designer wasn't named Dave! LOL

It was 2006, so I don't remember the names. Maybe I will dredge up the documentation and let you know.

Bottom line, as you and I both know, General Steel is a criminal enterprise.

 

[canndo]

I agree. In my case, even if it had cost $500 to file, I would have done it. Their lawyer was a total asshole too, so that made the win even more satisfying. By the way, that is the only time I have ever been involved in a legal dispute.

I have been in a number of them. My divorce took over 5 years, three lawyers (one for custody, one for assets and one for child support). But I have been involved in a number of small claims actions. If you are aware of how the system works it can be a great pleasure, even if you lose, to have your day in court. (I lost one. In fact the company was willing to settle but my damn first wife was out for blood rather than money).

This is why I am against "tort reform", because there are far fewer frivolous claims than are commonly portrayed. I am ambivilent about mass torts where lawyers reap the benefits, individuals usually get a tiny share and the companies are rarely actually punished by the final awards.


In one case, I found that my poor old mother was being taken by an unscrupulous contractor who was working his way through her neighborhood, being oh so very nice to each of the old folks and then taking them with shoddy work. I went to her house to see how her new wood floor and granite top was coming along and found three workers slopping acetone all over the counters - the place STANK, and not 5 feet away was a large canister of compressed oxygen and tubes running all over the house. I can't recall having been more frightened.


The short of it was that he put down a shitty floor and insisted she pay more for him to rip it up and redo it. the case was such that pictures didn't do it justice and the judge asked us to stay, finished out his day and then took the stenographer and the bailif to my mother's house to look at it first hand. That was all it took.

 

[Impman]

You should not have parked on private lot without permission. Free enterprise cannot be without positive and negative rights. In order for you to own a business, other people must respect that right. i.e. respect property lines. To own a home, others must stay out of your home. Libertarians fail to realize this. It goes over their heads....too much tea.. and not the good kind either.

As for the towing fee...well that is a necessity in order for businesses to conduct business. They need tow trucks to come and move cars out quickly (for a number of reasons). If it was on a empty Saturday, you never know what that property owner had planned for the day... maybe a bunch of family was suppose to come... who knows...its not your property.

 

[canndo]

Small claims is the way to go.
In addition I think you should call and write (email) the Mayor and any other relevant municipal officials holding office in whatever burg this egregious abuse took place in.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease....time to squeak up a storm.

Good Luck

I am considering it, if only because I suspect that the amount is just a bit short. Almost calculated. What busy person, cowed to "the way things are", will do much more than bitch, as I have about how he was taken or abused? It isn't quite enough money to have someone stand up and complain, go through the effort of spanking these people. It lies just below the threshold of financial pain and I suspect these people know that It is a day's work for most, it will soon be forgotten among all the smaller abuses.

The 9 dollars a month that is charged for a cable set top box that has already been paid for several times over through the years, raised from 5. Don't want it any more? well you are going to have to find out where to bring it, and then do so, we will not come pick it up. The garbage collection fee has gone up 12 dollars a month? oh, you can keep the same price but you have to have a smaller refuse container, the charge make the swap is 35 dollars.

"resort fees"? you know. You found this great room in Vegas, only $55 per night on a website. You get there and find that there is a resort fee - only $13. But why complain? you get "complementary" fax availability, a newspaper at your door each morning and weight room privleges, and free paper for the shared printer in the business room. "oh, so it includes WIFI"? no, that's another $8 a day. "oh, well, I suppose $13 for our 4 day stay isn't so bad, I like the paper at your door". "you misunderstand sir, the resort fee is $13 per day".

I could state countless examples of this edge, just below which has you angry, feeling taken advantage of but not so much that it does anything but leave a bad taste in your mouth, it is simply not enough to have you DO anything about it, and becuasei it is designed that way, no one does.