The leaves on my girls are curling up..any advice?

[Admortis]

Good Morning, My girls are having a slight problem; the leaves are curling up on the edges. In an earlier post I had described another issue as well; lower leaves starting to yellow, but that has been resolved by lowering the nut by 1/3 of the aggressive solution I started with. I am running a 150 watt HPS. I was keeping the light about 12" above but in an effort to reduce stress as I lowered the nut I raised the light to 24". I am still getting very good growth as you can see in my pics, yet the curling of the edges of the leaves worries me. Any advice to a newbie?

 

[Stayblunted2000]

When they curling up that's a sign of over heat..

 

[Admortis]

I would tend to agree but my temps 2" above the plants is at 80.7 with a relative humidity of 50%.

 

[Stayblunted2000]

I had same problem with mine at 80- 83 .. Got me an extra fan got it down to 74 .. And mine where in closet kept the door opened during lights on that helped too ..

 

[dirtyteddy]

I was going to say over watering but your doing hydroponics. Which leads me to ask if the roots are submerged in water or is it a Dutch bucket kind of thing going on. I can't tell from your pictures.

If the roots are submerged in water, leads me to wonder what type of aeration you have going on in the water. If the roots aren't getting enough air then they like to curl up like that. If your running the Dutch bucket style then idk.

Are you spraying any fungicides or anything?

What's the guaranteed analysis on your nutes? And I'm sure you've got that figured but what's your pH running at.

Btw, are you using distilled water???

If so it's a calcium deficiency but normally the far tips curl down, not the sides.

I had side lead curling on my tomatoes but that was because of the stupid fungicide that was in my Neem oil.

Also some plant viruses cause side leaf curl but let's leave that for last.

And In all honesty it doesn't seem to be negatively affecting growth so yeah

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[dirtyteddy]

Oh and again I can't really tell by your pictures but your girls seem very crowded. Quanity is Quanity but Quality equals Quanity while minting Quality.

*whistling*

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[big bud 56]

I know that you're doing hydro,not good for a newbie since it's harder to dial in your nutes to where they need to be.
Curling leaves are a sign of over nutes which means you should dilute your resevoir and cut back on your nute strength even if your feed schedule says to add more.
You should look at your plants,they'll let you know what to do and they're telling you that the nutes are too strong for them.
I grow in soil and I get curly leaves as well so I cut back on the nutes,weaker solution and that solves the problem.
Hope this helps.
Have a good grow.
peace

 

[dirtyteddy]

I know that you're doing hydro,not good for a newbie since it's harder to dial in your nutes to where they need to be.
Curling leaves are a sign of over nutes which means you should dilute your resevoir and cut back on your nute strength even if your feed schedule says to add more.
You should look at your plants,they'll let you know what to do and they're telling you that the nutes are too strong for them.
I grow in soil and I get curly leaves as well so I cut back on the nutes,weaker solution and that solves the problem.
Hope this helps.
Have a good grow.
peace

Disregard before edit

 

[big bud 56]

What does that mean?

Disregard before edit

 

[Admortis]

Thank you for responding Dirtyteddy,
For starters
This is Big Bang in a DWC with an 18 gallon res.
I have a Active Aqua air pump running wide open with a 6" stone.
I am not spraying anything on the plants.
I am using ForaDuo 4 part ..current for this week- A is at 5ml, B is at 2.5ml, CaliMagic is at 5ml, and RapidStart is at 2.5 ml which according to FloraDuo should provide nuts at 400-600 ppm. I was seeing some yellowing on the older leaves so I pulled 5 gallons and added back 5 gallons of clean water and the yellowing went away over night. My ph comes out of the tap at 7.. I have it lowered to 6.
I am just using Tap water at this point.
The slight crowding of the girls was done on purpose in a SOG attempt.
I realize as a newbie this is a harder way to start off, however, I would rather get it right for how I intend to grow.
I also have 110 cfm discharge and was just using passive air return, but have just added 50 cfm powered return to help keep the box cooler.

 

[Admortis]

Thank you for the input Big Bud, I was just about to do a water change and will try lowering the nutes. My understanding from FloraDuo is that this is a very aggressive feeding schedule. In week 1 I was at 2.5ml A, 1ml B, 5ml CaliMagic, and 2.5ml RapidStart. I am in week 2 and it jumped up to 5ml A, 2.5ml B, 5ml CaliMagic, and 2.5ml RapidStart. I pulled out 5 gallons and added back 5 gallons of clean water, which stopped the slight yellowing yet the leaf curl continues. What are your thoughts on where it should be? Back to week one where I had no issues with over nutes?

 

[big bud 56]

Yeah I would adjust it to what was working for you in the past.
Always look at your plants and keep the schedule at where it was when you weren't having issues.

Thank you for the input Big Bud, I was just about to do a water change and will try lowering the nutes. My understanding from FloraDuo is that this is a very aggressive feeding schedule. In week 1 I was at 2.5ml A, 1ml B, 5ml CaliMagic, and 2.5ml RapidStart. I am in week 2 and it jumped up to 5ml A, 2.5ml B, 5ml CaliMagic, and 2.5ml RapidStart. I pulled out 5 gallons and added back 5 gallons of clean water, which stopped the slight yellowing yet the leaf curl continues. What are your thoughts on where it should be? Back to week one where I had no issues with over nutes?

 

[legallyflying]

I was going to say over watering but your doing hydroponics. Which leads me to ask if the roots are submerged in water or is it a Dutch bucket kind of thing going on. I can't tell from your pictures.

If the roots are submerged in water, leads me to wonder what type of aeration you have going on in the water. If the roots aren't getting enough air then they like to curl up like that. If your running the Dutch bucket style then idk.

Are you spraying any fungicides or anything?

What's the guaranteed analysis on your nutes? And I'm sure you've got that figured but what's your pH running at.

Btw, are you using distilled water???

If so it's a calcium deficiency but normally the far tips curl down, not the sides.

I had side lead curling on my tomatoes but that was because of the stupid fungicide that was in my Neem oil.

Also some plant viruses cause side leaf curl but let's leave that for last.

And In all honesty it doesn't seem to be negatively affecting growth so yeah

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I love posts like this.. way to fucking confuse the guy and pretty much throw everything but the kitchen sink at him.

Lets see.. you said it could be too much water, calcium def, fungicide, and what else... oh yeah, a virus.

Would have been cool if you had at least got one of them right.

 

[legallyflying]

I run hydro and I have seen this before. Just a couple FACTS, not just throwing shit out there. In general, leaves curl up when they are lacking something, and curl down when you have to much of something. I wold rule out over nuting, becuase you don't have any burnt tips and the leaves would start to curl DOWN at the tip. It COULD be the start of a potasium deficiency as that will affect the dges of the leaves like that, if the tips on the edges start to brown then you can be sure that it is potasium def.

In the end, plant problems don't typically fall into one nice neat category. "ohh, I just need a little cal mag". Honestly to me it looks like you have harsh environmental conditions as the plant leaves look dry and haggered. I think your problems are the following:

1. Temps a little high.. high temps will cause the leaves to "taco" or start to fold in half, it will also make the plant tissue look dull and "dry" . 80 degrees 2" above means your leaf surface is probably 83-85. not ideal.
2. Your humidity is too low. 50% is great for late flower but in veg with young platns it is too low. yeah, you can do it..but we are talking about ideal condtions and your having problems soo... Your really beating on your plants with low humidity and high temp.. it creates a VERY high vapor pressure gradient. (just google it).
This excerbates the condition of too hot and causes all sorts of problems..chiefly too high a rate of respiration as th air outside the leaves is soo much drier than the plant tissue. SO when you ahve high heat and dry air, you are forcing the plant to transpire pretty much as fast as it can. When the plants are young and the roots are not developed enought to support the rate of water absorption and movement through the plant.. the leaves get dried out and they will move in order to reduce the rate of transperation. ERgo... the plant is drying out and will therefore close its stomata, effectively reducing the rate of transpiration and photosynthesis since Co2 is no longer absorbed. This typically corresponds to slower growth rates.
3. Your nute solution is a little too strong. (first off, for fuck sakes buy a PPM meter so you can actually tell us what the concentration of your solution is and actually learn what plants want and what happens when you give them what. A strong nutrent solution will make it more difficult for the plants to absorb water. Plants absorb water through active transport across the root membranes. The amount of energy it takes to absorb is dependant on the concentration gradient between roots and solution. Water travels from a lower to a higher salinity solution so your plant actually has to work to absorb water in the opposite direction (the roots have a lower concentration of nutrients than your solution). This contributes to the problems listed above.

So, If I were you...
1. keep the lights raised a little
2. lower your nute concentration (and probably back off the cal mag a bit. 5ml/gallon for young plants in hydro seems a bit excessive) that is what I add for week 4-6 of flower.
3. lower the temps..shoot for about 75-78 air temps
4. raise the humidity. Hang a wet towel, mist the plants, spill water on the floor... do something.
5. Foliar spray the plants with kelp extract... I'm tired of typing but it will help a whole host of things.

Whatever you do, WRITE IT DOWN and write down your observations as well. That is how you become a better grower because after several years of growing you will forget what caused what and how you fixed the problem.

 

[Admortis]

I wonder, I have just changed out the water and cleaned everything but have not added my nutes back in yet. Would it be beneficial to leave them in just plain water over night and change it out again in the morning adding the nutes then?

 

[Admortis]

Thank you for your input Mr. Ganja, I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge with me. After reading your post I have hung a wet towel up and I had just changed the water before I read your post; no nutes added yet. I was going to add the nutes back in in the morning and will set them back to what was in week one when I had no problems. Monday I will buy the PPM meter and some kelp extract, not having the ppm meter was not a money thing just a first grow and still learning what all I need. Again, thank you and have a great night.

 

[legallyflying]

No problem. In terms of plain water I would advise agaisnt it unless your really battling something (like root rot). It is stressful for a plant to constantly having the concentration of solution changed. Its not a huge thing, I'm sure you will be fine, but again we are talking ideal conditions. You have to think about what happens naturally... the chemical composition in soil rarely changes. It is still funny to me that people think that nitrogen is going to somehow inhibit flower formation and the give the plants hardly any of it... which actually diminishes flower formation. But that is a debate for another time.
You are on the right track with the nutrient regiime.. it is ALWAYS better to underfeed your plants and then boost the stregth in reaction to a deficiency than to burn them.

peace.

 

[skunkd0c]

can't see what the problem is really, they have a bit of a spikey look
but they do not look bad to me, the texture is fine, the colour is fine
no burnt tips, i think you are being a bit paranoid but that's ok
do not do anything drastic to them, you seem to be doing fine imo
just keep a close eye on the new growth, see if this is growing with the same spiked leaf edge on all of the leaves
or if its just the older growth, normally they curl inwards like that when the air is too hot around them
if you hold the leaves with your hands they should feel cold, if they feel even slightly warm they are not cooling themselves down as they should
and are overheating, move your light up a bit maybe

peace

 

[dirtyteddy]

I love posts like this.. way to fucking confuse the guy and pretty much throw everything but the kitchen sink at him.

Lets see.. you said it could be too much water, calcium def, fungicide, and what else... oh yeah, a virus.

Would have been cool if you had at least got one of them right.

Hey thanks for being the Jackass. Each thread requires at least one.


Anyways @OP

Try adding a more aeration.

Also for the future with hydro, I find it a lot easier on the mind if you just use one supplement for veg and another for flower. All these program Shits get confusing.

I mean tomatoes grow like cannabis right? And that is my first ever hydro.....

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