Strains Almost Impossible To Clone?.

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
Hi all!

Why are some strains so much more difficult to root than others?. I've been working w/2 strains for a year now, one indica dom and the other sativa. The indica has been 100% success rate while I'm lucky to root 1 out of 3 sativa dom. Same method is used for both, and it's driving me nuts hacking up this poor C99 mother just to get 6 clones...which takes 18 cuttings.

Any advice/thoughts much appreciated.

:peace:
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Nope...just thought I would say I hate cloning! Never had any luck with it and I've tried many methods...but I can't seem to keep fish alive either

It does make me a lot happier hearing you say your sativas are harder though
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
Nope...just thought I would say I hate cloning! Never had any luck with it and I've tried many methods...but I can't seem to keep fish alive either

It does make me a lot happier hearing you say your sativas are harder though
Is that a cutting you're holding in the avatar?...:lol:
 

JonnyAppleSeed420

New Member
Have you tried taking clones from different locations on the plant? Different hormones will be in different positions depending on the age. Older growth from the lower part of the plant have the best % of rooting...generally. I have a cheese that will not root from the bottom branches, re-fuses completely? Take clone from the half way point and up...much better %. What is your process? JAS
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
That's what they end up like man lol.. if they don't get mold or rot, they shrivel up. And if I can keep all that just right(environment wise) they end up sitting there till they die sucking the nutrients out leaves till they're bleached. ugh I don't know.
I might try that, I've only taken clones from the bottom.. I guess cause I was told too, but I've got a few ladies that need topped...got my fingers crossed
 

Ckma

Member
sunbiz how are you cloning ??? how healthy are they when you put them in clone? are they virus and mold free? are they in a humid sealed container or a dwc or aero style cloner? do you use a wilt preventer? whats the ec of they water and whats the ec of the mother plant when taking clones? are you using a cloning solution?

I had an issue with a couple of tom that I hybridized not to long ago that had the same issues as your describing. I was using a sealed ziplock planting the stem in foam and misting the inside of the bag. I was turning 70 clones a week and only 30% would make it. I noticed a trend that under lights the bags heated to the point where they reached 95% humidity and then continues to rise in temp in the bag to mid 80's or so and they started looking like your description. The bags that had more distance from the light were less fogged and rooted easier and the temp where cooler low to mid 70's. I figured the high humidity in conjunction with the rise in temps and proximity to the light where the issue. Try moving them away about another 1/2 foot - 1 foot ..

If it continues you may have a strain resistive to cloning and maybe should try micropropagation instead.. its honestly not that hard
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
i have always managed to get them to root, but i have found some quite a bit slower
maybe upto 1 week slower than they should be
a few will die, it is normally because the foliage dies off before they can root

you could try this
if its a case of they take so long to root that the foliage turns yellow and dies off after 2 weeks or so before they can root
perhaps try taking larger cuttings keeping more foliage don't bother snipping the ends of leaves off
after 10 days try to keep them as dry as possible without them wilting
if you can almost dry them out to the point of them just wilting, they will pretty soon burst out with those ultra fluffy type roots you see on aero grown plants
although you got to be careful to not dry them out too much that they go crispy lol they will come back after wilting but will be quite badly damaged if they dehydrate so much the foliage goes crispy

good luck m8, not an easy one

peace
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
Have you tried taking clones from different locations on the plant? Different hormones will be in different positions depending on the age. Older growth from the lower part of the plant have the best % of rooting...generally. I have a cheese that will not root from the bottom branches, re-fuses completely? Take clone from the half way point and up...much better %. What is your process? JAS
I'm about to try that, fortunately I have 2 mothers to select from. 3 out of the first seven cuttings made it, so guess I'll just keep at it until I get my number.

Just really weird, this is the 3rd time it has happened...and I never use lower branches.

:peace:
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
i have always managed to get them to root, but i have found some quite a bit slower
maybe upto 1 week slower than they should be
a few will die, it is normally because the foliage dies off before they can root

you could try this
if its a case of they take so long to root that the foliage turns yellow and dies off after 2 weeks or so before they can root
perhaps try taking larger cuttings keeping more foliage don't bother snipping the ends of leaves off
after 10 days try to keep them as dry as possible without them wilting
if you can almost dry them out to the point of them just wilting, they will pretty soon burst out with those ultra fluffy type roots you see on aero grown plants
although you got to be careful to not dry them out too much that they go crispy lol they will come back after wilting but will be quite badly damaged if they dehydrate so much the foliage goes crispy

good luck m8, not an easy one

peace
I also clone in peat, making stems susceptible to damp rot when left in domes too long. That I just had to dial-in with by removing for short periods.

Wish that was my problem with these C99's, that I know how to fix. But these just wilt and stay that way within 12 hours of placing in dome.
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
i see that occasionally , my cuttings are in 1 inch rockwool cubes
when i first take them, they all wilt bend over for the first day
the next day they are all upright and healthy only 1 in 50 might not recover the first day

not sure what your issue is then m8,
i thought when they die straight away like you're saying, or never recover from the initial wilting shock when first taken
only thing i have heard of is the air-bubble in the stem thing and why people take the final cut under water ?
that air bubble thing is apparently responsible for the ones that die straight away

peace
 

MistaRasta

Well-Known Member
Invest in an aero cloner. You can get a 36 site cheap. Never lost a clone since I've had it. Super simple, pour in 2 1/2 gallons of water place clones in, wait. I'll add clonex which gives me a 7-9 day turn around on almost all my strains.
 

billy4479

Moderator
I have a crazy little theory about hard to clone plants . So in regular plant propagation woody plants require heavier loads of hormone concentration's to initiate rooting in cambium layer . I believe some strains were breed with a woody trait in the stem VS a fibered stem needed for old hemp stock . There are many rooting hormone's out there with higher levels of hormone and will usually say for woody stems/plants right on the bottle . You can pick up something at homedepot or lows pretty cheap . you might be surprised .
 
Yes some plants clone easier then others... 1. take cutting from bottom (make sure you are cutting from and into a main stem) *The thick stem area is where you want to cut from, it's okay to actually cut into the main stem area bit, when taking a cutting. 2. Put hard to root cuttings in a glass of light nute solution, for, two to four days. 3. place cutting in rock wool, in a sealed container, about 1 foot from from a couple of fluroscent shop lights. Air rate once a day, if possible... If you can't get results with this method, you should probably try cloning something else... Here's my video on cloning => [video=youtube;jzJdlsWjv4c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzJdlsWjv4c[/video]
 
*Remember, taking a clone from the bottom of the plant won't be anymore effective then other areas. If you don't cut from and INTO a bottom main stem. This is a small point a number of people miss when they take clones... One more note don't take to small a cutting, you want one that is at least 3 or 4 inches, the thicker the cutting the better, as it will root faster... You also want to see perspiration building up in the cup your putting the cutting in that will tell you that you have it warm enough, for your cutting to root.
 

kinddiesel

Well-Known Member
I have noticed that as well. one would have 100 % success rate other would sit there for a damn month then dye. worse one was a delicious seeds. critical sensistar. temps were 70 hydro. every thing perfect. those fuckers refused to clone . and the mother was from seed. left it in the cloner. for 2 weeks. only rooting hormones. then leaves start to turn yellow so you have to add some nutes . then they look green then they wilter away. other strands would get almost 100 success rate. in the same cloner. roots in 7 to 10 days. so idk lol. so I can root some same every thing and the critical for get about it .
 

JonnyAppleSeed420

New Member
*Remember, taking a clone from the bottom of the plant won't be anymore effective then other areas. If you don't cut from and INTO a bottom main stem. This is a small point a number of people miss when they take clones..
Can you explain this? Doesn't make sense? Most strains will root much quicker if the clones are taken lower down on the plant. I have two different strains that I know of, that will not root from the lower branches and have to be taken higher up for viable clones. I love your idea of 24-48 hour soak and I will be letting my growers know and get them to try it with the finicky strains. JAS
 

max420thc

Well-Known Member
It took me forever to become a good cloner.The thing about most cloning books or even people trying to explain how to clone on here is they never tell you what exactly makes it clone.
as long as you know what makes the clone throw roots i do not think it matters to much about the methodology of how you do it.
This is what a clone needs to throw roots.
75 f constant room temperature,90 % Humidity rate.This and a moist stem is what keeps the plant alive until it throws roots.A soft light hung over the plants,I mean like a 15 watt cfl hung a foot over the humidity dome.If you keep the cloning media to WET and not moist it will not throw roots.If to dry it will not throw roots and die.Do not let cloning media sit in direct water.
You want the clones taken off of a healthy mother.The only food the clone has while it is throwing roots are what are stored in the cutting itself.If you feed it food it will not throw roots looking for food and water.
ALL of your cloning media trays and domes MUST be sterile or the bacteria will keep your clones from throwing roots.
It is best to have a separate cloning station or area in order to control light, heat and humidity.
The method used is only slightly different for people using aeroponic cloners .But the same conditions to throw a clone apply.The only difference is you are spraying the lower stems under the cutting with water injected with air via a bubble stone in order to make the roots develop.Some people who clone with a aero cloner put the pump on a timer to spray the stem at intervals to allow the stem to dry some drawing the roots from the stem faster looking for moisture to keep itself alive.Where as media cloning uses the air stored in the media to develop the roots.
What i use to clone;Propagation tray,dome,heat pad and temp stat,probe from temp stat set at 75 F inside the dome and tray,Root riot cubes. Stand to put root riot cubes into so they are held up out of any standing water in the bottom of the tray,around 3/8 water in the bottom of the tray.This provides humidity inside the dome.NOT to wet the rooting media.
The rooting media is soaked in ph balanced water at 6.Cutting is put in the media with cloning gel or powder on the stem and the cloning media is ONLY MOISTENED when the top of the media starts turning a light brown. Or with rockwool when they start turning a light white color.Spray with PH balanced water ONLY then.
It took around 3 years to figure out how to clone.After i figured it out i wondered why in the fook no one could explain to me how to clone reliable.
The main reason is they were telling me how to clone..not why the plant clones.
Review;Air at stem with moisture,Humidity above the plant to keep it alive,SOFT light,and stable temp.
Even hard to clone plants will clone with the conditions being set right and sterile.
The next thing i use to explode roots from the GET GO. is a product called power clone from botanicare,Yes it is expensive.VERY.
You will notice hopefully from playing with roots some root systems even on older plants may have one main tap root going down into the media exploding with roots in the bottom.
Growers are always concerned with root development of their plant..for good reason.I want HUGE root development from the stem.Not a small root development from the stem and huge root development latter.
You will notice the hard to clone strains you are running when they throw a root may only throw one root stringer.
The power clone helps develop MASSIVE root development from the stem of the cutting giving you a HUGE head start on massive root development.
People dont like to use it because it is expensive.
I hope this helps someone.
 

tekdc911

Well-Known Member
my positronic purple haze will only pop roots from a node
noticed this when i had problems rooting in starter so i used the water method
started cutting all the stem off right below a node and it pops no problems in water
havent tried any way since
 

JonnyAppleSeed420

New Member
Nice read max...Very informative. I wish it was that cut and dry. I understand what you are trying to say but where I live 75 degrees and an R/H of 90% would result in a zero turn over. The temps would work but that much r/h would kill quickly, same goes for leaving the hood on...killer. I think with the basic knowledge in your post a grower should be able to find their own sweet spot of their particular situation. I have cloned for many growers and the outcome differs from grow to grow and grower to grower. JAS
 
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