regs vs fems

[fg2020]

mind explaining 1 as you kind of lost me there, as i'm not quite sure what you meant, please and thank you..

It is my understanding that if a "feminized" plant is pollinated, either through its own hermaphroditic effort OR the introduction of "regular" male pollen, the resulting seeds will produce hermaphrodites.

 

[Grandmah]

It is my understanding that if a "feminized" plant is pollinated, either through its own hermaphroditic effort OR the introduction of "regular" male pollen, the resulting seeds will produce hermaphrodites.[/.
Plants that hermie pass on the trait. I've seen successful crosses using a make from a regular seed to pollinate a female from a feminized seed in the breeders paridise section. Boom

 

[fg2020]

Plants that hermie pass on the trait.

That is correct. And "feminized" seeds are created by inducing hermaphroditism in a "regular" plant. Thereby, any breeding efforts with the progeny of a plant grown from "feminized" seed is going to be at high risk for the expression of this trait.

 

[shadyslater]

i had a blue widow herm/self with seeds on me last year i have popped and gr own out a couple of these no herming no more seeds just lovely bud??????
not sayin you's are wrong cos thats how id figure it
but it happend. got 2 germin now infact lol

 

[racerboy71]

That is correct. And "feminized" seeds are created by inducing hermaphroditism in a "regular" plant. Thereby, any breeding efforts with the progeny of a plant grown from "feminized" seed is going to be at high risk for the expression of this trait.

this is where you're wrong about fem's..
the only reason a plant used to make feminized seeds hermies is because of the introduction of a chemical such as collidial silver.. it's the chemical that causes the plant to stop growing female sex organs, pistils, and instead forces it to grow male sex organs, stamen.. then a breeder takes the pollen from the stamen and a, either used it on the same plant, which the resulting cross is called an s1, or selfed one, or b, used the pollen from the forced male stamen on another female plant, the result would be considered an f1 ..

i always like to use the analogy of the following.. say i worked in a factory, and one day i carelessly cut off my arm in a bad industrial accident.. ok, now i have one arm, like the guy from the fugitive if you will..
if i were to have sex with my wife, who has two arms, and i only have one, we all know that our kids will all have 2 arms each as my losing my arm wasn't genetic, it was a freak industrial accident, and unless my kids happen to have a freak industrial accident in which they lose their arms, they will go on with life with two arms, and all of their kids will have two arms as well, unless of course at any point one of them cuts off their arm in an industrial accident..
in my analogy, the industrial accident is the chemical, collidial silver, in the making of feminized seeds.. so unless at some point one were to spray their feminized plants with a chemical like c.s. to force that plant to grow male stamen, it will go on it's life being a happy feminized plant.. same with it's offspring..

now saying that, some breeders will use hermie pollen to make feminized plants, but this doesn't happen often as the resulting plants will all have that hermie trait in them, and we all know that no one will want to grow hermie prone plants, and therefore that breeders reputation will take a huge hit, and no one will be buying their fem'ed seeds..
so you can rest pretty suredly that all feminized plants are the result of the introduction of some chemical that forced that plant to grow male stamen, and therefore the seeds from said plant will be just as stable as the mother plant was before the introduction of the c.s., or in my case, till one of my kids kids decides to cut their arm off in an industrial accident..

 

[junior870]

this is where you're wrong about fem's..
the only reason a plant used to make feminized seeds hermies is because of the introduction of a chemical such as collidial silver.. it's the chemical that causes the plant to stop growing female sex organs, pistils, and instead forces it to grow male sex organs, stamen.. then a breeder takes the pollen from the stamen and a, either used it on the same plant, which the resulting cross is called an s1, or selfed one, or b, used the pollen from the forced male stamen on another female plant, the result would be considered an f1 ..

i always like to use the analogy of the following.. say i worked in a factory, and one day i carelessly cut off my arm in a bad industrial accident.. ok, now i have one arm, like the guy from the fugitive if you will..
if i were to have sex with my wife, who has two arms, and i only have one, we all know that our kids will all have 2 arms each as my losing my arm wasn't genetic, it was a freak industrial accident, and unless my kids happen to have a freak industrial accident in which they lose their arms, they will go on with life with two arms, and all of their kids will have two arms as well, unless of course at any point one of them cuts off their arm in an industrial accident..
in my analogy, the industrial accident is the chemical, collidial silver, in the making of feminized seeds.. so unless at some point one were to spray their feminized plants with a chemical like c.s. to force that plant to grow male stamen, it will go on it's life being a happy feminized plant.. same with it's offspring..

now saying that, some breeders will use hermie pollen to make feminized plants, but this doesn't happen often as the resulting plants will all have that hermie trait in them, and we all know that no one will want to grow hermie prone plants, and therefore that breeders reputation will take a huge hit, and no one will be buying their fem'ed seeds..
so you can rest pretty suredly that all feminized plants are the result of the introduction of some chemical that forced that plant to grow male stamen, and therefore the seeds from said plant will be just as stable as the mother plant was before the introduction of the c.s., or in my case, till one of my kids kids decides to cut their arm off in an industrial accident..

probably the most informative analogy ever!

 

[fg2020]

this is where you're wrong about fem's..
the only reason a plant used to make feminized seeds hermies is because of the introduction of a chemical such as collidial silver..

As I previously stated, 'And "feminized" seeds are created by inducing hermaphroditism in a "regular" plant.' Chemicals are one method of stressing the plant into a state of hermaphroditism, but they are not the only one.

Sorry, but the industrial analogy is like comparing computers to car engines; doesn't work for me. Regardless, hermaphroditism is a highly negative trait and the traditional method of eliminating such traits is to eliminate the bearer of them. Hermaphroditism is a recessive trait that can become dominant in offspring produced from the parent hermaphrodite(s). That's why breeders don't use hermaphrodites in their breeding programs. Indeed, those breeders producing feminized seeds always use "regular" females for their hermaphoditism induction process.

 

[tusseltussel]

Don't genetics that are strong enough to need treating with chemicals to Hermie pass on that strong trait? Seems a huge difference from a plant that herms naturally

 

[RedCarpetMatches]

NO but regs will tolerate more stress and you should get to know males so you can make your own strains. Fun stuff.

 

[thenotsoesoteric]

i have no proof of this, but my thinking on fem's only having limited pheno's is as follows.

being that you eliminate half of the gene pool with fem'ed plants by not having a true father plant, you will now have half the chances of different chromosone's lining up together by virtue of there only being half as many of them, there fore there are much limited chances of varied pheno's..

like i said, i have no solid proof of this, other than what seems to me to be basic science, but i could obviously be over looking something major as i'm no breeder..

You're dead on RB. Females are XX chromosomes and males are XY, so a fem will be XX times XX and will not express certain recessive genes that the Y chromosome of the male may have. If you plan on breeding you're better off using regs if you're just grow for smoke, fem it up.

 

[kinddiesel]

ok. now people. they chemically female the beens , so yes 99.9 % of them are female. and I you plant reg half are m and other are f , so if your lucky and get the female and grow it . vs a chemical treated been , the end result is, the reg one ( might) have better genetics depending on a lot of variables when they treated the been, so yes I do think the reg final product will be better, I have a friend that was telling me about this. he would tell you reg f is superior plant to a chemical f. all he uses. and he has some very nice looking plants. until I see side by side after photos of both. I don't know my personal self , but I take his word on it been his hobby for over 30 years.

 

[RedCarpetMatches]

ok. now people. they chemically female the beens , so yes 99.9 % of them are female. and I you plant reg half are m and other are f , so if your lucky and get the female and grow it . vs a chemical treated been , the end result is, the reg one ( might) have better genetics depending on a lot of variables when they treated the been, so yes I do think the reg final product will be better, I have a friend that was telling me about this. he would tell you reg f is superior plant to a chemical f. all he uses. and he has some very nice looking plants. until I see side by side after photos of both. I don't know my personal self , but I take his word on it been his hobby for over 30 years.

Usually that chem mommy is a great pheno! Half my keepers "back in my prime" we're from fem seeds. Not everyone has the space and time for males. I do agree on pheno hunting regs for superior keepers, but he'll get great smoke and save time/space with fems.

 

[Trousers]

i have no proof of this, but my thinking on fem's only having limited pheno's is as follows.

being that you eliminate half of the gene pool with fem'ed plants by not having a true father plant, you will now have half the chances of different chromosone's lining up together by virtue of there only being half as many of them, there fore there are much limited chances of varied pheno's..

like i said, i have no solid proof of this, other than what seems to me to be basic science, but i could obviously be over looking something major as i'm no breeder..

I can not argue with that.

I wonder. Selfing a plant with an identical clone vs. 2 female clones of different parents. I would guess 2 clones of the same mother would lock those genes in and 2 clones from separate mothers would give slight variation.

Can't argue with that.
Selfing or using identical clones to create fem seeds would seem to create seeds that are nearly identical to the parents and limit variation.

 

[Trousers]

I see no reason why the phenotype variation would differ whether the seeds are regular or feminized, excepting the fact that regular includes males and thereby skews the distribution of said phenotypes. The negative characteristics of feminized seeds are simple:

1. If pollinated, the resulting seeds are all hermaphrodites.

Not true.

2. Gene pool pollution, see #1.

In my recent experience, seed companies offering extensive feminized seeds along with regulars have some issues in keeping track of what is what. That leads to excess hermaphroditism in so-called "regular" seeds.

Not true.

 

[Trousers]

As I previously stated, 'And "feminized" seeds are created by inducing hermaphroditism in a "regular" plant.' Chemicals are one method of stressing the plant into a state of hermaphroditism, but they are not the only one.

Colloidal silver and STS do not stress the plant. They make the plant produce the hormones that create male flowers in female plants. Using colloidal silver or STS is just taking advantage of a normal and natural aspect of cannabis.

Every female cannabis plant has the ability to produce male flowers. That does not make them hermaphrodites.

Sorry, but the industrial analogy is like comparing computers to car engines; doesn't work for me. Regardless, hermaphroditism is a highly negative trait and the traditional method of eliminating such traits is to eliminate the bearer of them.

You do not understand the difference between monoecious and dioecious hermaphrodites. Stress is not passed down in DNA.

Hermaphroditism is a recessive trait that can become dominant in offspring produced from the parent hermaphrodite(s). That's why breeders don't use hermaphrodites in their breeding programs. Indeed, those breeders producing feminized seeds always use "regular" females for their hermaphoditism induction process.

You do not understand the difference between monoecious and dioecious hermaphrodites.
Creating female seeds does not pass down any hermaphroditism.

 

[Trousers]

You're dead on RB. Females are XX chromosomes and males are XY, so a fem will be XX times XX and will not express certain recessive genes that the Y chromosome of the male may have. If you plan on breeding you're better off using regs if you're just grow for smoke, fem it up.

Do you mean because there asre less phenos?
Fem seeds are great for breeding, they save a lot of time and space.

While the talk about less phenos in fem seeds does sound reasonable, it is all speculation at this point.
The amount of phenos a variety has is different from variety to variety.

 

[Trousers]

ok. now people. they chemically female the beens , so yes 99.9 % of them are female.

If colloidal silver is used, a female plant is sprayed to trick it into producing male flowers.

and I you plant reg half are m and other are f , so if your lucky and get the female and grow it . vs a chemical treated been , the end result is, the reg one ( might) have better genetics depending on a lot of variables when they treated the been,

Seeds are not treated. A seed is already male or female.
What are you basing your opinion on that reg seeds have better genetics?

so yes I do think the reg final product will be better,

You haven't offered good evidence as to why.

I have a friend that was telling me about this. he would tell you reg f is superior plant to a chemical f.

I would tell him he does not know what he is talking about.

 

[thenotsoesoteric]

Do you mean because there asre less phenos?
Fem seeds are great for breeding, they save a lot of time and space.

While the talk about less phenos in fem seeds does sound reasonable, it is all speculation at this point.
The amount of phenos a variety has is different from variety to variety.

Phenotype is just what genes of the gene pool that particular plant is expressing. Males can express recessive genes that do not always show in females. It has to do with the genes and how they get sequenced that will effect end product, and by adding the male to the mix you allow for more genes and combos of traits.

Could you probably not tell a reg female plant from a feminized plant with the naked eye. It is all relevant to genes.

And it is not speculation, it is the most basic lessons in biology.

 

[Trousers]

Okay, I went to the garage to smoke and think...

Let's say you are making seeds with plants from regular seeds.

You have a male, with XY chromosomes and a female with XX chromosomes.
We will label the male as XY and the female as XX.

You could get different females

XX
or
XX


right?

The male would always supply at least one X chromosome in all the resulting females, but the female could supply one of two (different?) X chromosomes.

So if you made fem seeds from identical clones you would have

XX
and
XX

Which would give you less possible combinations assuming the male has to supply at least one X chromosome.

Is there a biologist in the house?

Are the two X chromosomes in a dioecious plant different?
Does the male automatically supply on X chromosome in a female plant?
Why does it burn when I pee?

 

[Trousers]

so that could be looked at as beneficial in that you might have a bit more predictability
or it could be looked at as a negative because you have less types of expression


If you are just chucking pollen, I think fems are a much better choice.
If you have
a lot of space
can grow out multiple males/females and save good genetics
want to back cross etc

then regs might be the better choice


with my 21 square feet of growing space, fems make the most sense for me