Air-Assisted Atomizer System Development and Inquiry

[jamesvagabond]

A couple of updates: in a new place, purchased a sweet 180 gallon 3 stage RO system for pennies, gonna buy a 55kw diesel genset and run it off WVO found for 1000!!!, scored more botanicare 100 gal res and flood trays than I can know what to do with (not for aero, just veggies and fruits), and found a great option for root chambers. They are called macro bins, for transporting grapes. They are food grade hdpe, at 4ftx4ftx3ft which are the exact dimensions I want for single plant room chambers. 1 nozzle per chamber will cover it when I have enough for the BETEs. Although I took a look at this misting company, and I don't know what the droplet sizes are yet, but the other specs seem good, although they operate at way higher pressures, 150psi being the minimum. I emailed the company and am waiting for a response. It sucks that all my free time falls on weekends, so I have little access to the business hours. Just need to keep saving up and pounce on deals. I am putting my feelers out for an 80+ gallon air compressor, then nozzles/hardware components testing (1 chamber test before I eat a 2g loss) and construct a greenhouse around it all. I can't wait for the unveiling, however my wallet is forcing patience.

 

[jamesvagabond]

I just got off the phone with Mark from Aeromist.com. He makes misting units for outdoor/industrial cooling. His stuff operates at 150-1000 psi so the figures are outside of relevance but he mentioned how a vegan restaurant owner in CA uses his brass units for an aeroponic system, a wall of panels. Mark was very helpful and was very up front about not knowing much of the details of using his sprayers for aero systems, but he did understand far better than BETE or any of those companies. Oh and did I mention his SS nozzles are 5.99, ya, I am going to try it.

I figure that I can find some calculation to take the orifice size, flow rate, etc and adjust the PSI until I find the proper droplet range. At 1000+psi his droplets are in the 1-8micron range, so I assume I can lower the psi and adjust the flow rate until I find the right droplet size. My town has a few independent analytical laboratories so if the price is reasonable I may do a laser analysis to determine droplet size for confirmation. I am hoping that if I keep a good log of the grow cycle and give it to the company I can get comped for the information or have them sponsor my future projects with aeroponic algae cultivation. Stay tuned folks, I hope to have a running semi-closed loop energy feedback system consisting of a diesel/biofuel generator wherein the exhaust is routed to an algae mitigation reactor. Algae oil is produced along with soil amendments, O2 and H2, and a number of other goodness and it can all be fed back into the system yielding carbon negative energy for commercial greenhouses, plus all the beneficial by products. Limiting factor at this point is pretty much based at 11 dollars an hour wage. Gotta love how our system is designed to prevent open access to the necessary resources for innovation.

 

[jamesvagabond]

Obviously I don't have any concrete information to base any product endorsement or anything, just wanted to show you folks and hear some of your opinions (hopefully they are based on fact and not huffnpuff) about these nozzles and whether they can be worked with or not. But for SS nozzles at the price of plastic ones, I definitely have a raging clue.

 

[jamesvagabond]

This is the flow chart, I figure with the orifice sizes it will be possible to scale the pressure to meet the droplet size requirements. *cough Atomizer *cough. You know what would be a sweet addition to this forum, if each user account was linked to a paypal account, and we can make donations to each other for designs, calculations, formulas, etc. I know I probably owe hundreds to a number of folks on this site.

 

[jamesvagabond]

Strike the last couple of posts from the record. I am going to buy a bete xaad nozzle and test it out, tired of waiting. I can scale up as I go.

 

[jamesvagabond]

I am going over in my head mounting the nozzles to an oscillating fan motor. I found this one on amazon but I want a much smaller one. I need to find a bunch of cheap marine grade 12v fans and taking them apart, mounting the nozzle on the oscillator. Would it be better with the fan blades on or off? It should help with the distribution of mist. Too bad I can't find a motor with a semi-spherical rotation.

 

[Mike Young]

I was under the impression that with AA the mist is distributed quite nicely. I like where you mind is at though, because I'm the same way. I still want to try an idea I had with a completely sealed root chamber, and having a subwoofer (marine) running 50 or so hertz. Nothing crazy, just enough to aggravate the mist a little. Probably not worth it, but I may get around to trying it one day. For hydraulic hpa, not AA. I honestly think the fans would be unnecessary for AA.

 

[jamesvagabond]

I was under the impression that with AA the mist is distributed quite nicely. I like where you mind is at though, because I'm the same way. I still want to try an idea I had with a completely sealed root chamber, and having a subwoofer (marine) running 50 or so hertz. Nothing crazy, just enough to aggravate the mist a little. Probably not worth it, but I may get around to trying it one day. For hydraulic hpa, not AA. I honestly think the fans would be unnecessary for AA.

Thanks for the input, I am still interested in the idea of mounting the nozzles on a oscillating motor so it is not just one concentrated root area getting blasted with mist.

 

[Atomizer]

Take it a step further and you`ll be there
You need a big round chamber 8ft-12ft diameter 2ft deep with a single nozzle mounted in the middle. Rotate the nozzle at 60-120rpm (24/7) and you`ll have even coverage with 1 second (or 0.5 second for 120rpm) pulse timing increments. An oscillating nozzle wont give you even coverage because it has to change direction, it wont respond or move fast enough for a 1 second pulse.
One AA nozzle can evenly cover a 113sq ft (1700gal) or larger chamber if you can think outside the box. At some point, you have to take a leap of faith and part with some cash, thats where most people give in and wait for someone else to put their neck in the noose
Some of us enjoy the challenge of doing something different to the norm.

How to rotate an AA nozzle at 120rpm? use one of these and a bit of ingenuity

 

[jamesvagabond]

Take it a step further and you`ll be there
You need a big round chamber 8ft-12ft diameter 2ft deep with a single nozzle mounted in the middle. Rotate the nozzle at 60-120rpm (24/7) and you`ll have even coverage with 1 second (or 0.5 second for 120rpm) pulse timing increments. An oscillating nozzle wont give you even coverage because it has to change direction, it wont respond or move fast enough for a 1 second pulse.
One AA nozzle can evenly cover a 113sq ft (1700gal) or larger chamber if you can think outside the box. At some point, you have to take a leap of faith and part with some cash, thats where most people give in and wait for someone else to put their neck in the noose
Some of us enjoy the challenge of doing something different to the norm.

How to rotate an AA nozzle at 120rpm? use one of these and a bit of ingenuity
View attachment 2804377

Awesome!! Thanks that is some great feedback. I am trying to source corrugated steel pipe. If I can find 12ft diameter ones I can fit three plants per chamber. I'd make them at least 3 feet deep though, 4 would be better in my opinion to accommodate the longer roots. I am for certain making this happen, I lost 30K in student loans and that barely got me anything, why not use it for something that is more reliable? Any awesome get rich quick schemes out there that require no startup costs or connections? ha

 

[jamesvagabond]

How difficult do you think it would be to mount a nozzle onto something like a light mover; for instance mounting one nozzle on a long track to feed multiple chambers. Getting it to line up properly, have a seal and timed properly would pose a challenge for sure but it may be cheaper than buying multiple nozzle setups and minimize cost/equipment scale. If it could work it would make AA much more reasonable. Or I am stoned ha

 

[jamesvagabond]

Take it a step further and you`ll be there
You need a big round chamber 8ft-12ft diameter 2ft deep with a single nozzle mounted in the middle. Rotate the nozzle at 60-120rpm (24/7) and you`ll have even coverage with 1 second (or 0.5 second for 120rpm) pulse timing increments. An oscillating nozzle wont give you even coverage because it has to change direction, it wont respond or move fast enough for a 1 second pulse.
One AA nozzle can evenly cover a 113sq ft (1700gal) or larger chamber if you can think outside the box. At some point, you have to take a leap of faith and part with some cash, thats where most people give in and wait for someone else to put their neck in the noose
Some of us enjoy the challenge of doing something different to the norm.

How to rotate an AA nozzle at 120rpm? use one of these and a bit of ingenuity
View attachment 2804377

Is that a windshield wiper motor?

 

[jamesvagabond]

Atomizer, I gotta say I love your mind. I will be taking engineering courses in '14, so hopefully I can start to follow your calculations.

 

[jamesvagabond]

I can fit four in there, with a 4x4 designated site per plant with 12"+ net pots. I am trying to find ridiculously large net pots, or make some if it comes down to it. I don't want root rot. I also want to add multiple layers of root trellis to promote sprawling as opposed to dropping straight down. In my fantasy setup the root trellis would be a hollow fiber membrane with micro pores that release 50-80mc under minimal pressure to avoid sheer pressure on roots. Ha since I am dreaming, it can be an electrical conductor as well, so that when roots start to touch the fibers it sends a signal to open up the pores and feed that area as well. This way any part of the membrane that is not contacted by roots is not spraying mist, to save nutes.

 

[Forest Gump]

You are on the right track in using a large net pot. I would recommend not using AA nozzles they will not give you a precise even coverage. I would use multi spray heads around the root mass and not use a trellis because it will only block your mist.

 

[oxanaca]

You are on the right track in using a large net pot. I would recommend not using AA nozzles they will not give you a precise even coverage. I would use multi spray heads around the root mass and not use a trellis because it will only block your mist.

have you ever used an AA setup for a whole grow, a whole day?

what size net pot have you had most success with so far? do you use rockwool, or an media-less aerocloner?

 

[Forest Gump]

have you ever used an AA setup for a whole grow, a whole day?

what size net pot have you had most success with so far? do you use rockwool, or an media-less aerocloner?

AA mist will never blow right threw a 12" or larger root mass who told you this incorrect information? Do you really think for a minute that AA mist can do this? What will happen is the outside of the root mass will get misted and nothing will get even near the center. I have run aero at 150 psi and could not do it what makes you think 40 psi or less can....wake up and stop spreading the worst information around.....
tree farmer is the only one that made it work using large net pots using clay pellets that did not get root rot. And my experience has been when you decrease your time and make those fuzzy Pom Pom roots you will not see much growth you are teasing the plant with food and doing more harm than good. You AA and aero guys need to stop giving the masses bad information. There are some of you that just keep posting about how good this is and that and most of you have no clue on what your talking about.....

 

[Forest Gump]

This is exactly what is wrong with this site everyone thinks they are a expert and give advice not knowing anything..........

 

[Forest Gump]

Unless you have scientific data to support your theory's don't post.
also do not bring up the old grows from the UK I also researched this and it was nothing more than a marketing gimmick for the piece of crap atomix.

 

[Forest Gump]

That's all I have to say about this.......for now by the way I can debate and discredit you and your crowness all day.