What do you know about aliens?

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guy incognito

Well-Known Member
*ThEn, not thAn. "Then" denotes differences between verbs, "Than" denotes differences between nouns.
Wait, I don't think this is true. Then separates something by time. Than compares 2 things.

I would rather have cake than pie. Indicates I prefer cake instead of pie.
I would rather have cake then pie. Indicates I want my cake first, then my pie.
 

ineverveg

Active Member
Sorry for the triple post,i believe he may have been shut down by the men in black!:grin:

“Dr. Rick Strassman, pioneering psychedelic researcher and author of the book, DMT — The Spirit Molecule, discusses his new book, Inner Paths to Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds through Psychedelics and Other Spiritual Technologies, Zen Buddhism, psychedelics and spirituality, Old Testament prophecy and more in this fascinating interview. Dr. Strassman conducted the first federally approved psychedelic research in the US in nearly a generation with the compound dimethyltryptamine, or DMT, in New Mexico in the mid 1990′s.
Though expecting mystical raptures and deep psychological insights, in his study he was astonished to find many of his volunteers reporting unexpected encounters with strange and sometimes disturbing alien beings with advanced technology in what amounted to classical UFO “abduction” experiences. Unable to explain away the volunteers’ experiences, he concluded that these were genuine encounters with independent sentient beings in otherwise normally invisible dimensions.”
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Sorry for the triple post,i believe he may have been shut down by the men in black!:grin:

“Dr. Rick Strassman, pioneering psychedelic researcher and author of the book, DMT — The Spirit Molecule, discusses his new book, Inner Paths to Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds through Psychedelics and Other Spiritual Technologies, Zen Buddhism, psychedelics and spirituality, Old Testament prophecy and more in this fascinating interview. Dr. Strassman conducted the first federally approved psychedelic research in the US in nearly a generation with the compound dimethyltryptamine, or DMT, in New Mexico in the mid 1990′s.
Though expecting mystical raptures and deep psychological insights, in his study he was astonished to find many of his volunteers reporting unexpected encounters with strange and sometimes disturbing alien beings with advanced technology in what amounted to classical UFO “abduction” experiences. Unable to explain away the volunteers’ experiences, he concluded that these were genuine encounters with independent sentient beings in otherwise normally invisible dimensions.”
Anytime something is unexplainable, it, by definition, can not be explained. This does not give us a reason to jump to conclusion and is known as an argument from ignorance aka shifting burden of proof.

Sleep paralysis/hypnagogic hallucinations are very often accompanied by a feeling of a presence being in the room. For centuries we were unable to "explain away" the experiences and so people attributed it to various magical beings. They were wrong.

What these two experiences have in common is the lack of objective knowledge. If these experiences yielded just one bit of math, physics, or really, any information the subject didn't already know, they would be much more convincing. As it stands, you can trip on DMT for years and years and never learn one useful thing about the universe; not one piece of information that can clearly be distinguished from fantasy.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Joe has some really insightful and occasionally profound things to say about personal motivation and taking control of life. I think the reason many skeptics do not get huffy about Joe is because he is simply curious and looking for answers. He has none of the attitude that science is biased and he does not presume to know more than the experts about scientific subjects. IOW he doesn't take cheap shots at science to help elevate his views. He doesn't dismiss doubt as militant atheism, or claim scientists are scared to shake up their world view, ect.
I think he does a little bit... He heres the explanation of the experts and still claims GMO's are horrible. Heres the explanation of the experts and still thinks the Sumarians discovered Pluto. This could go on and on. But yeah, he does not claim to be smarter than those experts, and neither do I, me and Joe and millions of other people just disagree with them. I agree that he doesnt take shots at science either, he loves science, but he also thinks science isnt the only way, things that science has yet to discover can be learned and experienced, like his views on DMT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6RBOIgtzEE
 

ineverveg

Active Member
Anytime something is unexplainable, it, by definition, can not be explained. This does not give us a reason to jump to conclusion and is known as an argument from ignorance aka shifting burden of proof.

Sleep paralysis/hypnagogic hallucinations are very often accompanied by a feeling of a presence being in the room. For centuries we were unable to "explain away" the experiences and so people attributed it to various magical beings. They were wrong.

What these two experiences have in common is the lack of objective knowledge. If these experiences yielded just one bit of math, physics, or really, any information the subject didn't already know, they would be much more convincing. As it stands, you can trip on DMT for years and years and never learn one useful thing about the universe; not one piece of information that can clearly be distinguished from fantasy.
Isn't sleep paralysis and such like attributed to dmt ,the same as astral projection and dreams ect?

Why do we have to learn anything from the aliens about the universe? they may not want us to know anything!

There is no maths or physics as to why dmt is in so many species,although its just been proven to be found in the pineal gland of rats but no one knows why.tome dmt isn't a drug at all but more of a consciousness expanding naturally occuring molecule which i just top up now and again
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
pedantic cut and paste btw, however if you ever take DMT by any means of administration you will see aliens,i'm assuming you never have though judging by the misinformed research you present into the discussion.

lsd,mushrooms,salvia,mescaline ect ect ect are not well known for seeing aliens nor does EVERYBODY whom takes these psychedelics report the same thing.

to me its very strange that a huge percentage of DMT experiences involve a presence of some kind, there are a few different perceptions of what the presence is but even if they are elves, that's still aliens, i have taken most psychedelics in my time and never seen any actual hal·lu·ci·na·tions, just distortions of what is actually there! hallucinations are not really there at all,total fabrications made by the mind but you have to ask the question of why does this molecule that is inside all of us , when smoked/ingested/injected,or analized, makes EVERYONE (not just a few oddballs ) ,see the same exact thing

could you explain that to me with a science cut and paste please?
What was so misinformed about his post? Are you claiming that just because other drugs don't give you the same effect as DMT that somehow the visions you see with DMT are actually happening and not merely hallucinations inside your mind?
Distortions of things already there are called illusions, not hallucinations. Just because you haven't hallucinated on other drugs doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it usually is dose dependent.

I have seen machine elves on special-K as well as DMT. I have seen these interdimensional beings on DMT but even if one of them told me, "Believe Chief Walkin Eagle. He is 100% correct that we are real." I would still have a problem believing that it was real and not my own brain making this up. Now if these beings told me something my unconscious mind could not possibly know, then I might have a reason to believe. The fact is I have no more reason to believe a DMT trip is real than I do a very realistic dream.
 

ineverveg

Active Member
What was so misinformed about his post? Are you claiming that just because other drugs don't give you the same effect as DMT that somehow the visions you see with DMT are actually happening and not merely hallucinations inside your mind?
Distortions of things already there are called illusions, not hallucinations. Just because you haven't hallucinated on other drugs doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it usually is dose dependent.

I have seen machine elves on special-K as well as DMT. I have seen these interdimensional beings on DMT but even if one of them told me, "Believe Chief Walkin Eagle. He is 100% correct that we are real." I would still have a problem believing that it was real and not my own brain making this up. Now if these beings told me something my unconscious mind could not possibly know, then I might have a reason to believe. The fact is I have no more reason to believe a DMT trip is real than I do a very realistic dream.
DMT has no comparable in the psychedelic world, it isn't even a drug but more a portal to communicate with ET beings, i'm simply agreeing with Dr. Rick Strassman, as far as i know none of you lot have conducted such in depth analysis of DMT using a large number of subjects so if his theory makes sense to me then why would i question the good doctor!
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
DMT has no comparable in the psychedelic world, it isn't even a drug but more a portal to communicate with ET beings, i'm simply agreeing with Dr. Rick Strassman, as far as i know none of you lot have conducted such in depth analysis of DMT using a large number of subjects so if his theory makes sense to me then why would i question the good doctor!
What do you/he base this on?

To be clear, your claim is that DMT is a "portal to communicate with ET [Extra Terrestrial] beings, right?
 

Nutes and Nugs

Well-Known Member
Anytime something is unexplainable, it, by definition, can not be explained. This does not give us a reason to jump to conclusion and is known as an argument from ignorance aka shifting burden of proof.

Sleep paralysis/hypnagogic hallucinations are very often accompanied by a feeling of a presence being in the room. For centuries we were unable to "explain away" the experiences and so people attributed it to various magical beings. They were wrong.

What these two experiences have in common is the lack of objective knowledge. If these experiences yielded just one bit of math, physics, or really, any information the subject didn't already know, they would be much more convincing. As it stands, you can trip on DMT for years and years and never learn one useful thing about the universe; not one piece of information that can clearly be distinguished from fantasy.
How much does "science" know about the human brain?
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
pedantic cut and paste btw, however if you ever take DMT by any means of administration you will see aliens,i'm assuming you never have though judging by the misinformed research you present into the discussion.
Pedantic? It's good to define words to make sure everyone participating in the debate can be clear on the concepts being discussed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Strassman

During the project's five years, he administered approximately 400 doses of DMT to 60 human volunteers. Of the 60 human volunteers who've ingested DMT under Strassman's watch, more than half reported similar experiences. These experiences ranged from profound encounters/interaction with non-human beings to observing highly detailed, self-transforming geometric patterns and other things of similar nature.

It seems that from Straussman's own data that not all subject experience aliens while on DMT. Would you kindly post links to where you got that information?
lsd,mushrooms,salvia,mescaline ect ect ect are not well known for seeing aliens nor does EVERYBODY whom takes these psychedelics report the same thing.
As I've shown above, not everyone who take DMT reports the same experience, either...
to me its very strange that a huge percentage of DMT experiences involve a presence of some kind, there are a few different perceptions of what the presence is but even if they are elves, that's still aliens, i have taken most psychedelics in my time and never seen any actual hal·lu·ci·na·tions, just distortions of what is actually there! hallucinations are not really there at all,total fabrications made by the mind but you have to ask the question of why does this molecule that is inside all of us , when smoked/ingested/injected,or analized, makes EVERYONE (not just a few oddballs ) ,see the same exact thing

could you explain that to me with a science cut and paste please?
Repetitive, see my last answer...
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
DMT has no comparable in the psychedelic world,
Except that it belongs to the tryptamine family and is analogous to serotonin, melatonin, as well as other psychedelic tryptamines such as 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenin, psilocin and psilocybin -- but other than that, it's not comparable.

it isn't even a drug but more a portal to communicate with ET beings,
In what way is it not a drug?
i'm simply agreeing with Dr. Rick Strassman, as far as i know none of you lot have conducted such in depth analysis of DMT using a large number of subjects so if his theory makes sense to me then why would i question the good doctor!
Argument from authority holds no weight here. All we are left with is anecdote as pretty much nothing that Strassman has speculated on has been published and available for peer review, and the things that have are highly disputed by reputable neurochemist. It might make sense to you but how many papers have you read that challenge or refute his findings? This is just more wishful thinking bias IMO.
 

ineverveg

Active Member
Except that it belongs to the tryptamine family and is analogous to serotonin, melatonin, as well as other psychedelic tryptamines such as 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenin, psilocin and psilocybin -- but other than that, it's not comparable.

In what way is it not a drug?

Argument from authority holds no weight here. All we are left with is anecdote as pretty much nothing that Strassman has speculated on has been published and available for peer review, and the things that have are highly disputed by reputable neurochemist. It might make sense to you but how many papers have you read that challenge or refute his findings? This is just more wishful thinking bias IMO.
Its MY belief that its not a drug because it is present in all of the human race ,i believe dr strassman has more knowledge base to learn from than you for instance,so why listen to your point of view, have you been published and have you even partaken in a dmt exerience

What do you/he base this on?

To be clear, your claim is that DMT is a "portal to communicate with ET [Extra Terrestrial] beings, right?
For me experiences! for strassman it was and yes thats MY belief
 

ineverveg

Active Member
During the project's five years, he administered approximately 400 doses of DMT to 60 human volunteers. Of the 60 human volunteers who've ingested DMT under Strassman's watch, more than half reported similar experiences. These experiences ranged from profound encounters/interaction with non-human beings to observing highly detailed, self-transforming geometric patterns and other things of similar nature.

It seems that from Straussman's own data that not all subject experience aliens while on DMT. Would you kindly post links to where you got that information?


As I've shown above, not everyone who take DMT reports the same experience, either...
About half he says,maybe more!. I would imagine a lot of people would be embarrassed to tell the doc they seen 'beings', and some may have been religious which conflicts with alien beings so they would be hesitant to comment on the alien presence and opt for god as the mystical force,a percentage of the participants could have had a tolerance or immunity , not all minds can accept this knowledge and could suppress it much like a childhood memory of trauma, but even half is a good number for me to agree with him and hes a doctor!

DMT is a different experience everytime anyway so no one can have the same experience, and im still assuming you have never had an experience ? if so how can you comment?
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Its MY belief that its not a drug because it is present in all of the human race
Whether or not something is a drug is not subject to your belief. You can believe that the sun is pulled across the sky by chariots but that doesn't make it true. There are many endogenous substances that are also drugs. We extract and synthesize all types from hormones to opiates.
i believe dr strassman has more knowledge base to learn from than you for instance,so why listen to your point of view, have you been published and have you even partaken in a dmt exerience
I already told you that I have experienced DMT. Whether or not I have been published is also irrelevant. One of the things that makes science work is the ability to evaluate other people's work by what they submit for review. When there is disagreement, I tend to accept the position of the people that have the most knowledge on the subject and tend to dismiss conjecture and speculation without evidence, which applies to most of Strassman's opinion.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
what is the 'presence' in your opinion then,how many times and did you go deep ?
Why don't you read post #286 again. You quoted it but it appears you didn't actually read it but just skimmed it to pick out the point that you could respond to.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
pedantic cut and paste btw, however if you ever take DMT by any means of administration you will see aliens,i'm assuming you never have though judging by the misinformed research you present into the discussion.

lsd,mushrooms,salvia,mescaline ect ect ect are not well known for seeing aliens nor does EVERYBODY whom takes these psychedelics report the same thing.

to me its very strange that a huge percentage of DMT experiences involve a presence of some kind, there are a few different perceptions of what the presence is but even if they are elves, that's still aliens, i have taken most psychedelics in my time and never seen any actual hal·lu·ci·na·tions, just distortions of what is actually there! hallucinations are not really there at all,total fabrications made by the mind but you have to ask the question of why does this molecule that is inside all of us , when smoked/ingested/injected,or analized, makes EVERYONE (not just a few oddballs ) ,see the same exact thing

could you explain that to me with a science cut and paste please?
Back in my party days, I was on a bunch of hits of acid a handful of X - and a mixture of special K, and fuck knows what else in a bumper/bullet, and I was having open eye hallucinations. When I closed my eyes it was like being in another frickin world, there were voices and faces and complex geometric patterns. The weirdest part for me was the fact that I 'knew' what I was saying in my head didn't make sense, but at the same time it made perfect sense. Everything was so fragmented and disjointed, but I can remember moments of what seemed like absolute clarity.

Another time while on a Kaleidoscope of chems at a music festival, I watched a girl in white clothes, a belly shirt, and puffy pants, dance in the sunlight at dawn; and thought I was watching an angel. The feeling was overwhelming, I was choked up. Mezmorized.

I don't do any chems anymore. Took me a while (3 years?) to feel like I was normal again after the year I spent partying...

ANYWAY, the point was never at any point in time did I attribute any of my experiences to a higher being. It's an assumption that I'm not willing to make, because there's simply no reason to make it.
 

ineverveg

Active Member
Why don't you read post #286 again. You quoted it but it appears you didn't actually read it but just skimmed it to pick out the point that you could respond to.
I quoted it to illustrate a different point, yes i read it all, though it doesn't go into any detail of the question i posed above, do you sum the presence up with aliens or elves? from that post you may have hit DMT once and feel you may know it all from that,i also asked how deep you have gone ie dose taken, if you don't want to answer these questions thats ok, but dont use politics to evade the issue and claim to already of answered previously,sorry but i was just trying to establish that you have had more than 1 light hit to give credence to your comments.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
I quoted it to illustrate a different point, yes i read it all, though it doesn't go into any detail of the question i posed above, do you sum the presence up with aliens or elves? from that post you may have hit DMT once and feel you may know it all from that,i also asked how deep you have gone ie dose taken, if you don't want to answer these questions thats ok, but dont use politics to evade the issue and claim to already of answered previously,sorry but i was just trying to establish that you have had more than 1 light hit to give credence to your comments.
You can feel a presence, 'god' or 'aliens' without drugs. All you need to do is stimulate a certain part of the brain with a magnetic field.

[video=youtube_share;_O_aGlm9QjU]http://youtu.be/_O_aGlm9QjU[/video]
 
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