Nasa's X5 green enhanced specturm?

[dufiwon]

In researching for a led grow light I found this X5 spectrum. The only place I found that use's it is. http://www.buildmyled.com/green-enhanced-growth-spectrum/
It has a nice spectrum.

They have the study done for nasa. http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/39/7/1617.full.pdf

I was wondering what you guy's think about this? They use 8 6500k white's to 7 660nm red. I've been wondering about using more white's in my led fixture.


I found this video on youtube too. The plant's on the bottom are using the X5 specturm. They look really good.
[video=youtube;MVNxNVnkBPE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVNxNVnkBPE[/video]

I was thinking of building a light with this spectrum.
What do you think?

 

[pepperdust]

well first off, every white is different ( I mean from company to company ) .. the there is light output from company to company, there is watt difference from company to company..

still on the white, we are thinking.. I am saying that as no one I know of yet has done extensive testing to say on whites.. but were thinking cool white ( 6500k ) is to much blue, and neutral white "should" work just as well, if possibly even all warm whites.. but it's really all talk as no one has run side by sides ( I plant to, but haven't yet )

I think we need to know also, what is the wattage on the white, and on the red chips... this we need to know as that's important, as I can't say how much watts of red / white there are to say if it's too much red or not.

I do think though, panels with whites / red will work completely fine. I've used an evo ( cool white / 630nm red ) and worked fine, so I wouldn't see why whites / 660nm wouldn't work even better..

I checked for the separate modules, here. you might have to email them to see if they make the X5 spectrum for module if you might thinking about just buying there module..

 

[ellydee]

"I was thinking of building a light with this spectrum".

Why Bother? Apache has done it for you. "AT120WR"

 

[dufiwon]

$1000 is far too much for me to spend on an apache. Don't get me wrong if I had it I would spend in a heartbeat. But I'm poor.

 

[pepperdust]

"Why Bother? Apache has done it for you. "AT120WR"

this is true to an extent. first off Apache uses no 660nm.

second, once again, every LED is spectrum dependent, no to are alike. they do differ.. to a point to argue, not really, but some whites have better red output then others..

third, I think everyone should remember, each panel / light manufacture makes something different. each panel I feel should really be sized to the area your building / have. Efficiency is what I'm talking about here. as apache uses such narrow beam angle, that affects what are you should use it in, or plan if it's for you. I've been doing testing on different panels, and they really do matter to size your area to the panel, you can either have wasted light with the design of the panel, or fall short, having to up the light to cover the area ( thus losing alot of light to travel to reach the plant ) . this is where I feel manufactures need to size there lights to tents / popular areas / sizing for example 2x2 or 3x3... notice really how no manufacture designs a panel to these specific spaces, they sometimes do I will agree, but I don't feel that was there plan from the beginning. this is where I feel the DIY light fits perfect, as you build exactly to your area. manufactures more buld a panel to fit a design or shape or layout of spacing requirements, I think forgetting about working from the end first ( the space it's going to occupy ) vs. building a light then seeing what it fits to.. this is very evident in the rectangular panels that first came out and still do.. who uses a rectangle layout? most every grow I've ever seen is a "square" few work with a rectangular pattern to build a rectangle light..... sorry, I got off topic.

 

[ellydee]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be a D-Bag but,

The new Vipars were built to suit specific areas; 2'x2', 2'x3', 3'x3' and 4'x4'

"first off Apache uses no 660nm."

Area 51 SGS-160 has no 660 diodes and they work just fine.

Apaches can be had for $750.00 + shipping with the code found in Tags420's posts.

 

[tags420]

Okay glad I found this thread early. Lots to be said.

Nasa does not make any LED's...they use Apache Tech and only apache in their research. The part that nasa contributes is why and how they work...known as research. Blue/reds were good but could be better and with only one generation thanks to the collaborative work of apache and nasa they have the white/red, R1's and R2's. Which are the official nasa spectrums. Using only 6100k white and 630nm red... No pure 660 in the nasa spectrum. And the reason for nasa using apache over anyone else is because they think they are the best(price's doesn't matter to nasa). There is a press release coming out because so many companies are trying to claim using nasa/apache designed spectrums. Should clear things up.

And yes, code RBK331 will drop it to 750.

I agree about the size thing, why the rectangles. AT is coming out with 3x3 and 4x4 specific units(squares finally). The 320 and 480, designed to truly replace 600-1000 hps's, and they'll fit and stay cool in tents.

A51 SGS160 says 2x2 to 3x3, but recommended is rectangle 3x2.


And as for the buildmyled...they putout 3846lm and only 90.2umol pulling 84w.
Well apache has 18w T8led tubes that are putting out 2040lm and 270umol@6" and 190@12". and they will be available in the R1 and R2 spectrums(W/R in same tube). So just 1 tube has a much better umol and 2 makes them better if you care about lumens.
I would imagine any brand white t8LED tube would be better than a buildmyled.

 

[pepperdust]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be a D-Bag but,

The new Vipars were built to suit specific areas; 2'x2', 2'x3', 3'x3' and 4'x4'

"first off Apache uses no 660nm."

Area 51 SGS-160 has no 660 diodes and they work just fine.

Apaches can be had for $750.00 + shipping with the code found in Tags420's posts.

ellydee, have you ever built a light, planned the whole process from beginning to end, sized everything for max efficiency, planned every chip placement, thought one what power wattage, lens / reflectors .... ?

I can tell you without knowing much, or being a light builder / designer, these are built on the idea to suit a happy medium. well first there copies of the famous HGL design. second, as I said in the beginning, if you ever built / designed a light, you would not build what they offer. you don't build a 20 inch panel to cover 4x4 area... the design already speaks to have low intensity sides , with high intensity center.. that was there brilliant design team idea from the beginning??? I'll give you a hint what it should more look like ( long, spread out, ) .. to me it's personally the downfall of LED, the design required to make them very efficient, these can't be built pumping out 330 watts in a small box, it doesn't work that way with LED for max efficiency ( once again not disputing they don't work, they do work ) . if we keep the same design, yes you can have that in 10-15 years with very very high intensity, but it's the wrong thought process to have.. I once had a talk with someone about managing money, I told them " if you can't learn to manage what you have, in the future, it will be no different then now.. or you can learn to manage what you have now, so whatever you have in the future you will be successful in managing.. " success doesn't come by throwing more of whatever you have at it, it's about truly thinking out the end goal and working back from that.. ( it's like the principle of cars, throwing more horsepower doesn't make a car faster, what makes a car faster for far easier.. weight reduction ) ( if you know what your end goal is, you know the steps your taking are the right or wrong ones )

I'm not disputing if they grow. any panel does, but not with efficiency, and even coverage which can be better had with LED then any other system, as the uses of many many LED make that possible.


the 660nm comment was for the person talking about apache, as I was trying to say, you can't compare a panel using ( IDK, 640nm ? ) to 660nm... as I always say, you can never truly compare anything




you can choose to think I'm talking horse shit, or do whatever you want with my words.. there one opinion among a sea of them..

 

[djwimbo]

... notice really how no manufacture designs a panel to these specific spaces, they sometimes do I will agree, but I don't feel that was there plan from the beginning. this is where I feel the DIY light fits perfect, as you build exactly to your area. manufactures more buld a panel to fit a design or shape or layout of spacing requirements, I think forgetting about working from the end first ( the space it's going to occupy ) vs. building a light then seeing what it fits to.. this is very evident in the rectangular panels that first came out and still do.. who uses a rectangle layout? most every grow I've ever seen is a "square" few work with a rectangular pattern to build a rectangle light..... sorry, I got off topic.

My A51 is designed to run a 2x3 or up to a 3x3, and I knew that before I built the box it's in ... Not everybody runs square grow spaces, and running multiple lights has overlap in coverage, thus increasing intensity across the board.

As far as the White + Red LEDs, that's where a few companies are ahead of you. The "trend" started picking up after the NASA thing, and every light company wants to bank on the time and effort somebody else put into the spectrum. Apache doesn't talk about who's LED's they use, and won't. What is known, is that nobody else can claim to be using the spectrum, because it hasn't been released. Even if you did want to compare, I haven't seen consistency between the White + red LEDs. Some people think the whites should be 3000k, 4000K, 4500K, 5000k, 6100K or even 10000k. It's up to the buyer to pick what they feel is right, or suits their needs. Feel free to try them all and make a comparison, but it won't be conclusive evidence in any way.

As far as the 630-660nm argument, I don't think any of that is exclusive info. Many DIY'rs have run various lighting systems and supplemented reds. I've heard some say that 630 is the best, and others 660. I've seen people claim that adding anywhere from 10% up to 30% red light(by watts) is good/beneficial without negatively effecting yield/quality. I can at least agree with you that some things shouldn't be compared. Also, it's not about making the plant adapt to a custom spectrum, it's about giving it the most ideal spectrum. Ultimately we're still cheating nature, and trying to tweak it to our needs.

In case you haven't noticed, most people that need to fill a large space with LEDs, often use multiple panels to increase coverage. I'm not going to ask my light to cover a 4x4, but if I had three I'd for sure fill the space very well. Multiple light sources also helps increase output due to the increased exposure. Dude might have been pulling some nice plants in that video, but he also spent a fortune to get all those. Same idea though, if they're exposed to a "wall of light", there is not a single focal point where light energy comes from(even distribution). This is the same idea behind running a of of small watt diodes vs the same watts with less diodes.

 

[dufiwon]

I really like those apache tech, but even at 750 that's still alot of money. Maybe at tax time I could get one. Hopefully there will be some more grow's out there by then. Thank's for the info.

 

[tags420]

Ya they are pricey.

But my point was that the buildmyled you originally posted is junk for the money and power and you could way over achieve it for under $100. The led's in the video you posted are illumitex bars. Other than that and the vertical farm video I haven't seen anyone else using them.

And the whole actual nasa spectrum thing.

 

[dufiwon]

I wasn't going to get buildmyled light's. I was just curious about the spectrum. I am going to get an apollo for now. Just trying to fiqure out what spectrum to order.

 

[tags420]

Got it. It would be the spectrum to try and replicate then fore sure.

 

[dufiwon]

Hey tags, where is the code for the apache good for?

 

[PurpleBuz]

Okay glad I found this thread early. Lots to be said.

Nasa does not make any LED's...they use Apache Tech and only apache in their research. .

ha ha I knew I would find you here. so when is apache gonna release their BAR lights? Would love to test a few prototypes.

In the meantime I am gonna try and duplicate this spectrum with cheap leds and T5s.

 

[tags420]

ha ha I knew I would find you here. so when is apache gonna release their BAR lights? Would love to test a few prototypes.
In the meantime I am gonna try and duplicate this spectrum with cheap leds and T5s.

I may know more than anyone else about apache but even I don't know when shit actually will get done. Just what he tells me which usually gets pushed back a few times. Anyway, I have only seen one proto of the no-fan bar unit and nothing about them since. He says july for everything but as soon as I believe/say that it will be longer. The T8led tubes that are coming in 2 months with the apache chip will be great for people looking for a bar like unit. I have been talking about them in here...https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/672947-caution-not-all-le-tubes.html.

Hey tags, where is the code for the apache good for?

The code is good through apache's website. Use it in your cart.

 

[puffenuff]

I emailed Illumitex about ordering the X5 spectrum NeoSols and they pointed me to hydrofarm. Hydrofarm didn't have any X5 info online so I emailed them. Waiting on a reply back.

So I asked growershouse.com about ordering an X5 spectrum NeoSol, they said they needed to ask Illumitex if they could get them. Growershouse got back to me and they said that they were told that after extensive testing, the red/blue F3 significantly outperformed the X5 so it is discontinued.

Interesting to say the least.

 

[dufiwon]

That's funny, because the nasa research said otherwise. Maybe there led's just suck compared to apache tech.

 

[tags420]

Interesting indeed. I could only speculate about the sketchiness of no availability and lower performance, but whatever. Or maybe their right and they don't like it. I personally can't see whites going away, specially if you have the best chips.

Not to get off topic...
I would love to see every LED on the market have a grow off in warehouse...4x4 tents/company using cuts from the same mom, same medium, size/type container, same nutrients lines, and plant#, no CO2. Also same veg time and flip dates. The one thing that could be some what variable is how to control the environment of each tent...different lights will require different temp controlling. Maybe every tent has a small booster fan creating negative pressure then any thing else needed in extra wattage towards the light(s). And have a 600 or 1000 hps just for control
Just a dream...but then it would be real easy to choose and see what is working.

 

[dufiwon]

That is something we would have to do as a community. The companies probably wouldn't go for that. Lossing would be very bad for buisness.

I would love to see this too. Apache would probably win.