9/11 what do you think?

[tokeprep]

ino they dont .... steel weakens at 1700 deg melts at 3000+ and jet fuel burns at a maximum of 600, what do you believe ?

Steel has lost 10% of its strength by 500 degrees. At 1,100 degrees, you're down to 70%; at 1,350 degrees, down to 44%; and by 1,700 degrees, you've lost 90% of the steel's strength. So actually, steel starts to weaken at 500 degrees, and as you climb in temperature, it gets progressively weaker. And we aren't just talking about fire-weakened steel--what about the damaged core columns? Think about how much weight the core columns were supporting above the impact site.

I think there's general agreement that the jet fuel would have burned off relatively quickly, but that doesn't mean the fire went out--the contents of the building were ignited. What temperature does all of that stuff burn at? I don't know the answer, but I've also never seen truthers bring it up, which probably doesn't bode well for your case.

 

[tokeprep]

what could have caused the extra 2,400 degrees of heat + the melted metal in the lobby of the center

What melted metal in the lobby? I know that jet fuel poured down an elevator shaft and into the lobby of at least one of the buildings (literally incinerating some people in the lobby and causing burn injuries) but I'm not aware of any melted steel down there.

 

[tokeprep]

i actually got most of this information from a 911 video supporting it was 'terrorists' they have hours of footage from that day and there interviews done with just random people there at the time as i linked earlier the video of the 2 people who got blown of there feet in the lobby downstairs .. why was there an explosion downstairs ?? oh no but they ignore this like them 2 people dont exist .................

How funny that I just addressed this. The "explosion" in the lobby was the result of jet fuel pouring down the elevator shafts. Here's a whole page of witness accounts specifically from the lobby: https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/insidethenorthtower:witnessaccounts,lobb.

 

[NoDrama]

How funny that I just addressed this. The "explosion" in the lobby was the result of jet fuel pouring down the elevator shafts. Here's a whole page of witness accounts specifically from the lobby: https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/insidethenorthtower:witnessaccounts,lobb.

Some of the elevators had become fireballs, melted beyond recognition."

Melted elevators? Aren't the doors made of Stainless steel? You can't melt that with Jet Fuel.

from

https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/insidethenorthtower:witnessaccounts,lobb

also this...

In the lobby, he smelled gasoline as the overhead sprinklers soaked his dusty clothing. "I feel like I am going to die,"

JP5 smells NOTHING like gasoline. Smells like kerosene.

Hey DOER?

I voted for Bush the first time.

 

[tokeprep]

here's another peice of scientific information dis proving the official story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I56kafEB5Ng

Steven Jones is the best you can do? You realize the engineering faculty at his institution declared his claims to be total bullshit, right? But I guess engineers don't know anything about buildings.

And this is a prime example of what's so farcical about 9/11 truth: you attack everyone else for buying the official story because it's supposedly unsupported by science, and yet the greatest champions of 9/11 truth are non-experts in the relevant fields who won't submit their work for peer review.

 

[Novicehomegrower]

How funny that I just addressed this. The "explosion" in the lobby was the result of jet fuel pouring down the elevator shafts. Here's a whole page of witness accounts specifically from the lobby: https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/insidethenorthtower:witnessaccounts,lobb.

hahahahahhahahahahahahaha yes im sure jet fuel managed to seep out the plane all the way down 80 floors to then catch fire and blow someone up downstairs hahaha you people are retardED use your brain

all the jet fuel was gone in the initial blast there would be none to poor down 80 floors hahahahahaha

 

[Novicehomegrower]

and just because they said it was bullshit does not been they debunked everything he said ..


toke prep you sound like a derp derp

 

[Mike Young]

Heavy smoke is the sign of an oxygen starved fire. The people standing in the HOLE made by the plane tell me that the floor was intact, and the heat necessary to weaken the core columns was not there. People jumping from the building would've also been starving for oxygen. I believe fuel could've poured down to create secondary explosions. Although something often overlooked is that fuel explosions don't carry the same kind of psi to rupture things like say, a bomb explosion. A fuel explosion is weak by comparison. Really weak.

 

[Novicehomegrower]

MEAN*. ****ing typos

 

[Novicehomegrower]

i give up american govt lover's are like broken records they dont look at the facts they ignore then bring up something else to change the subject

 

[Novicehomegrower]

Heavy smoke is the sign of an oxygen starved fire. The people standing in the HOLE made by the plane tell me that the floor was intact, and the heat necessary to weaken the core columns was not there. People jumping from the building would've also been starving for oxygen. I believe fuel could've poured down to create secondary explosions. Although something often overlooked is that fuel explosions don't carry the same kind of psi to rupture things like say, a bomb explosion. A fuel explosion is weak by comparison. Really weak.

exactly

plus the video i linked the two people said it sounded like a bomb but i bet they didn't even watch the video

 

[NoDrama]

HUGE EXPLOSION!! watch them light this jet fuel on fire.

As you can see, the jet fuel just EXPLODES with flames as soon as he lights it.

HUGE EXPLOSION!!

[video=youtube;xJzzUhwvwTM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJzzUhwvwTM[/video]

I once saw a 50,000 gallon Diesel tank catch fire, it just burned for 2 days is all. But there was A HUGE EXPLOSION, just like in the video, exactly the same.

 

[Novicehomegrower]

but cmon so all these contradictions and everything i have linked has just been denied. why is there all these corrupt things that do not get ignoliged that there was more to this that a plane and jet fuel ..


what about this one

the people who built the building (the company manager people not the people who actually got there hands dirty)
said that they built the building strong enough to with stand a plane crashing into it ? plus the building was made to withstand temperatures of 1500ish at this point it would lose 50 % weakness but would still be fine and standing tall ..


but oh no it gets ignored ..

they where the fucking building designers how can there word not be more credible than that of a corporation that didn't even build it ??????

 

[Novicehomegrower]

HUGE EXPLOSION!! watch them light this jet fuel on fire.

As you can see, the jet fuel just EXPLODES with flames as soon as he lights it.

HUGE EXPLOSION!!

[video=youtube;xJzzUhwvwTM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJzzUhwvwTM[/video]

I once saw a 50,000 gallon Diesel tank catch fire, it just burned for 2 days is all. But there was A HUGE EXPLOSION, just like in the video, exactly the same.

yes there for all of the jet fuel would be burnt out basically after the big explosion ...

but the building was made to withstand all this ... so how did it fall into its own foot print both of them did ... in the same fashion .....


and building 7 also fell ?? in the same fashion .... cmon ... this is common sense verses delusion

 

[tokeprep]

Melted elevators? Aren't the doors made of Stainless steel? You can't melt that with Jet Fuel.

Stainless steel isn't structural steel, presuming that was the material; the former is far, far weaker than the latter. Of course, I think it would be a mistake to attach too much significance to the word "melt" in lay witness accounts. Lay people don't necessarily understand what the word "melt" means, nor do they necessarily have the capacity to judge whether something was "melted." See contradictory statements:

"Tom Canavan: All the elevator doors were knocked off. They were almost crooked."

"

Don (Parente) noticed that the doors of elevators number 6 and 7 had been blown out."

"As we got to the third floor of the B stairway, we forced open an elevator door which was burnt on all three sides. The only thing that was remaining was the hoistway door. "

"The same thing happened to the elevators in the main lobby. They were basically blown out."

"There was elevator doors ajar. There were elevator doors missing. I could see an elevator car twisted in the shaft."

"A. I didn’t recognize it as bodies. I don’t know if my mind didn’t see it.
Q. Burned?
A. Burned.
Q. Near the elevators?"

"Before we got in, all the elevators were crashed down in the lobby, and we were going to the stairwell. See all the elevators were crashed down, big slabs of marble on the floor, all the ceiling tiles of the dropped ceiling was falling down, wires hanging. You see wires and stuff hanging inside the elevator shafts, because the doors were blown right off the elevators."

"In the center of these two elevator shafts would be the elevators that go to the lower floors. They were blown off the hinges. That’s where the service [freight] elevator was also. …They were blown off the hinges, and you could see the shafts."

"I noticed that some of the elevators had been blown out of their shafts. They came down and crashed out of the shaft. They were buckled, and I had noticed that there were people still in the elevators."

"At the end of this elevator lobby, there was – it just looked to me like something had exploded. I don’t remember how I heard it or who said it, but someone said I think it was an elevator – when the plane hit, it severed the elevator cable and it came all the way down and crashed. I don’t know a hundred percent if that’s what happened, but it looked to me like that could have been true. It looked like something had fallen down, hit, and exploded out. I mean the whole area around it was maybe 25, 30 feet of really severe damage."

"I remember thinking, I looked at the elevators and I still wasn’t feeling good about them, because the damage that I spoke about was more severe or at least up close I got to see it. There were pieces of marble, like ornamental marble I guess, on the walls that were maybe 2 foot by 3 foot pieces, maybe even a little bigger, that had split and cracked and some had actually fallen." [This person seems more impressed by the damage to the marble than the supposedly melted elevator shaft/doors.]

"Some of the doors – they were silver colored elevator doors and they were almost like hanging out of plumb. They just didn’t look right."

"Some of the elevators were on fire. Signs of smoke and fire damage were visible at some elevators. Many of the elevator doors were missing."

I'm going to stop here because I'm only 25% of the way down the page of witness accounts. I think the point has been made.

from

https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/insidethenorthtower:witnessaccounts,lobb

also this...

JP5 smells NOTHING like gasoline. Smells like kerosene.

Thank you for illustrating my point about the unreliability of lay witness accounts. You found a single quote that referenced smelling "gasoline." From the very same page:

"And I remember the overpowering smell of kerosene."

"With her, in the gust of the door, came a pungent odour, the smell of kerosene or paraffin..."

"He caught an occasional whiff of jet fuel, a smell like kerosene, wafting from elevator shafts..."

"I reached WTC around 8:57 am and as soon as the doors opened we were engulfed by some chemical that smelled like kerosene and smoke."

"'We smelled kerosene,' Mike recalled..."

 

[NoDrama]

yes there for all of the jet fuel would be burnt out basically after the big explosion ...

but the building was made to withstand all this ... so how did it fall into its own foot print both of them did ... in the same fashion .....


and building 7 also fell ?? in the same fashion .... cmon ... this is common sense verses delusion

Watch the video.

I was being highly facetious, there is no explosion, JP5 won't explode unless it is stoichiometrically mixed with air , compressed and THEN ignited under or due to great PRESSURE.

There is no spark plug in a diesel engine, it all works on pressure, just like a jet engine.

 

[NoDrama]

Stainless steel isn't structural steel, presuming that was the material; the former is far, far weaker than the latter. Of course, I think it would be a mistake to attach too much significance to the word "melt" in lay witness accounts. Lay people don't necessarily understand what the word "melt" means, nor do they necessarily have the capacity to judge whether something was "melted." See contradictory statements:



I'm going to stop here because I'm only 25% of the way down the page of witness accounts. I think the point has been made.



Thank you for illustrating my point about the unreliability of lay witness accounts. You found a single quote that referenced smelling "gasoline." From the very same page:

People don't generally know what kerosene smells like, nor what BLOWN up would look like, After all these people are lay people and wouldn't know Blown up from fell over. Nor do they have the capacity to judge if something is Blown Up or smells like kerosene. Or if doors were hanging plumb or not, none of those people are elevator engineers. They wouldn't know a campfire from a raging inferno, after all these are just lay people with no capacity for anything other than dancing with the stars.

At least we know how unreliable these lay people are and won't resort to using them as evidence of nothing never again, now won't we not?

 

[tokeprep]

hahahahahhahahahahahahaha yes im sure jet fuel managed to seep out the plane all the way down 80 floors to then catch fire and blow someone up downstairs hahaha you people are retardED use your brain

all the jet fuel was gone in the initial blast there would be none to poor down 80 floors hahahahahaha

I give you a whole page of witness accounts describing exactly what happened, and you summarily dismiss them as irrelevant? Now we can clearly see who is ignoring evidence.

What's peculiar about this is that you like to use quotes from single witnesses to make your case that the official 9/11 story is false. But tens, hundreds of witnesses all describing the same thing--you dismiss that as preposterous?

 

[NoDrama]

Melting point of stainless steel? 2750F

Structural steel? 1517F

Of course I am sure if its just a few pounds of Stainless it will defy all laws of physics and melt in 500F temps to suit tokenderp.

 

[tokeprep]

Heavy smoke is the sign of an oxygen starved fire. The people standing in the HOLE made by the plane tell me that the floor was intact, and the heat necessary to weaken the core columns was not there. People jumping from the building would've also been starving for oxygen. I believe fuel could've poured down to create secondary explosions. Although something often overlooked is that fuel explosions don't carry the same kind of psi to rupture things like say, a bomb explosion. A fuel explosion is weak by comparison. Really weak.

Wouldn't oxygen be entering the building though the holes and feeding the fires? People standing near the hole would be totally irrelevant to heat at the core, and since the hole stretched over multiple floors, your observation might only suggest that one floor was intact.