Burning at 300 PPM

[happynoodleboy]

About my grow:
- DWC bubbler 12L water in 18L bucket
- 6.0 PH (using 3.5 - 4 ml PH DOWN)
- GH flora series
- 20% strength of directions on bottle
- 24 C (75.2 F) w/ constant air circulation
- 50% humidity
- 36" tall
- clone planted, vegging started March 13th, 2013
- flowering started 12/12 May 11, 2013

You can see my problem above. The leaves started curling after about a month of vegging. The leaves started clawing and burning two days now since I've switched the light cycle to 12/12 and switched the nutrient to the transition strength. The curling and burning is starting at the bottom fan leaves. This evening I changed the water and cut back my P and K as was advised to me on another thread I started - https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/648838-curling-tips-nutrient-burn.html
My next goal is to get an EC meter and learn how to use it. Right now I'm monitoring nutrient strength with this cheap TDS pen.

I was surprised to read about people using 25% then 50% strength with the GH flora 3 part series.

If anyone out there thinks they know what's going with these curly and now burning leaves, I'm all ears. Should I let my nutrients set in the water for a while before submerging the root ball in during water changes? I make sure the water is room temperature, should it be warmer or cooler? Nutrient feeding schedules? Better nutrients to use? Thanks in advance!

 

[1itsme]

how often do you res change? when you top off your res are you adding only ph'd water? or you adding more nutes as you go? adding more nutes can cause problems esp with no way to check ppm.

 

[Turm]

Dude they aren't getting enough food, up the nutes. It looks like mag def imo, 300 ppm is not enough.

 

[Turm]

View attachment 2658412
This is what nute burn looks like, do you have a ph pen as well? Staying ontop of your ph is crucial in all hydro grows, especially in DWC. I have some girls that are your size if not smaller in 12/12, two weeks in all taking around 1200ppm.

 

[happynoodleboy]

I've been monitoring my PH with the general hydroponics kit that has a liquid you drip into a small vial filled w/ reservoir water. Then compare the colour it changes to a scale on the side of the bottle. Tonight I'm ordering a EC / PH electronic tester to gain greater accuracy. I've been trying to keep my PH between 5.8 - 6.0 with the liquid test kit.

Here is the result of my last crop that started out with curling tips and rusty leaves...

That looked like burn to me and others agreed but it can't be with the little amount I'm feeding. These girls were getting 30 to 40% strength solution. I was very surprised to hear that some people use 50% with no problems.

Also I change my reservoir twice a week. This lady drinks about a litre per day. During changes I replace the entire reservoir with fresh water and 20% nutes every time. Is that what's fucking me up?

I've been monitoring the PPM with a TDS pen. My tap water starts out with 190 PPM and after adding nutes it's sitting around 490 to 500 PPM for a total of 300 PPM added.

I heard from a fellow grower that TDS isn't standardized. Here's his quote...

some meters use 700ppm = 1 ec, some 500 ppm = 1 ec. it can cause confusion. the ppm reading is just an estimate based on the ec.

I'm following the feeding schedule on the side of the general hydroponics bottle. Does anyone know a cannabis specific feeding schedule using GH flora, that I can use as a baseline?

I lowered the amount of bloom solution during my last reservoir change because I was told that too much P and K during flowering can cause rusty claw like leaves... but since it's not nutrient burn this is probably not going to do anything. Grrr... I'm going to smoke a bowl.

 

[djxtreme]

GHE trio series .. during the flowering period use a 3/2/1 ratio, 2 micro / 1 grow / 3 bloom ,so eg in 10l 0f water its 10ml of micro , 5ml of grow ,15ml of bloom . ive tried to follow the guide but always find that when using my blue lab truncheon that the ec still comes out low ...REMEMBER its just a guide so on my grow that Ive got going now I decided to up the anti....... im also using a 20l dwc ..so filling to the line is 16l so to my dwc I add 2 caps of mirco 10mlx2=20ml ALWAYS add micro first .......1 cap of grow 10mlx1 =10ml and 3 caps of bloom 10x3=30ml then I ph it to about 5.6 / 5.7 . Then I remove 3 lt and put into plastic bottle to top-up nutes about 3 /4 days after and complete water change once a week with fresh water and nutes PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU NEED TO KEEP AN EYE ON PH LEVELS IF TO LOW OR HIGH THE PLANT WILL NOT TAKE THE NUTES PROPERLY

 

[happynoodleboy]

djxtreme, thank you. This is exactly what I've been searching so long for. I will also adjust my PH after I add nutrients. I was adjusting it before adding nutes in the past. May I ask what your ratio for veg is? and if you use a 1:1:1 ratio when switching between veg and flowering?

 

[blowincherrypie]

Ya something appears to be getting locked out. From what you describe, PH is most likely the problem. Good luck.

 

[happynoodleboy]

Ya something appears to be getting locked out. From what you describe, PH is most likely the problem. Good luck.

That was a suspicion. Thanks for the input! The PH of my tap water is 7.0 and I've been taking it down to around 6.0 (according to the coloured liquid tester). I'm going to buy this tester --> http://www.hydroshop.ca/english/indoor-gardening/water-testers-and-dosers/combo-meters/hanna-instruments-hi-981504-ph-tds-temp-tri-meter.html <-- unless anyone knows of a better one?

 

[happynoodleboy]

Does it shock the plant to make the reservoir change immediately after mixing the nutrients and adjusting the PH? Should I wait to let the nutrients and PH down disperse evenly in the water before testing the levels?

 

[djxtreme]

ok first I hate growing lol 1 problem always leads to five more questons.....lol.....ok first when I change my bucket(dwc/ ikon) I fill the bucket straight from tap...and leave for a little while (others choose to leave it to sit for a day or two to let the chlorine evaporate) I don't as don't have a 40 lt tank lying around...lol....in total probably takes me an hour per bucket to make nutes and test ec /ph and adjust to around 5.7/5.9 ......I wouldn't buy a trio meter unless its the bluelab truncheon http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server3800/2ae8b/products/447/images/298/BluelabTruncheon__16332.1328473952.1280.1280.jpg there are a few different meters that use different readings such as ppm/tds/ec and different scales to work them out... REMEMBER ec is the only universal readings. as for nutes I just follow what it says on bottle plus a little extra ....all plants will respond differently so this is not gospel its just a ruff guide These numbers are based on EC readings, .500 readings, TDS readings converted from EC or the common Hannah Chart:

Seedlings, Early Sprouts 100 to 250 / ec 0.2 to 0.5
Early Vegging 300 to 400 / ec 0.6 to 0.8

Full Vegetation 450 to 700 / ec 0.9 to 1.4

Early Blooming 750 to 950 / ec 1.5 to 1.9

Full Mature Blooms 1000 to 1600 / ec 2.0 to 3.2 this might help

 

[djxtreme]

im also ph-ing every couple of days to keep it around above ph levels

 

[happynoodleboy]

Thanks again djxtreme. I'd smoke you up if I could.

 

[djxtreme]

no worries mate im not an expert but do a lot of reading when I encounter problems.....google is your friend lol ,also don't be fooled into buying a cheap ph pen there shit.....spend the bit extra and get a good one......so your using trio but with ripen or some thing else because I was given some pk 13/14 which I use instead of ripen(I just though they done the same)like to know which is the better one lol......any body know?lol

 

[pizzapuffer]

View attachment 2658334

About my grow:
- DWC bubbler 12L water in 18L bucket
- 6.0 PH (using 3.5 - 4 ml PH DOWN)
- GH flora series
- 20% strength of directions on bottle
- 24 C (75.2 F) w/ constant air circulation
- 50% humidity
- 36" tall
- clone planted, vegging started March 13th, 2013
- flowering started 12/12 May 11, 2013

You can see my problem above. The leaves started curling after about a month of vegging. The leaves started clawing and burning two days now since I've switched the light cycle to 12/12 and switched the nutrient to the transition strength. The curling and burning is starting at the bottom fan leaves. This evening I changed the water and cut back my P and K as was advised to me on another thread I started - https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/648838-curling-tips-nutrient-burn.html
My next goal is to get an EC meter and learn how to use it. Right now I'm monitoring nutrient strength with this cheap TDS pen.

I was surprised to read about people using 25% then 50% strength with the GH flora 3 part series.

If anyone out there thinks they know what's going with these curly and now burning leaves, I'm all ears. Should I let my nutrients set in the water for a while before submerging the root ball in during water changes? I make sure the water is room temperature, should it be warmer or cooler? Nutrient feeding schedules? Better nutrients to use? Thanks in advance!

View attachment 2658366

1 important thing you left out is the strain. strong sativa strains need a very low ppm. one i grow shows signs of stress at around only 700 ppms.

cheap ph and ppm meters can also be the problem. i prefer blue lab but their warranties suck and they're like $300. i use a milwaukee MW 802. about $120-130 read some bad reviews but mine seems to stay in calibration. my cheaper $20 milwaukee ph 600 is junk. the calibration stays at near 7 but when you go from around 5-6 it is really is off compared to my MW 802. the junk ph600 also is way off on the ph 4 calibration solution after calibrating the 7 solution to 7. it says the 4 is much higher. my MW 802 is right on. another thing is make sure your calibrating at proper temps. temps will change your ph. you should also ph at least once a day unless you can get it to stay stable. seemed like when i used botanicare nutrients i only had to ph once and it would hardly change after.

to be honest when i first started doing hydro i didnt even do ppms. you can get away with just using milliliters and starting off light slowly building your way up until you got that strain dialed in or change your water source. ppms is better though but will take up more time obviously.

i would just start out with something simple like botanicare. you dont need all those supplements. imo they just make weed taste more chemical in a vaporizer. i prefer the more organic and keeping it simple. for small plants start off with like 1/8 the recommended strength. i wouldnt go much more than half strength unless the plant is showing deficiencies. keep your water temp at 68-70F if possible. you can actually still get a decent crop with warmer temps but then you will probably get root rot sacrificing some of your yield. keep humidity as low as possible. keep room temps to about 80. dont be afraid to keep your dark temps to like 75, i find this helps prevent powdery mildew. some mildew strains of it dont need much humidity but just a tiny moisture from a drastic temp change. change your res every week. every res change run some plain ph'ed water through for a bit, like 15-20 minutes at least. keep ph at 5.8-6.2. you can pot ice packs or bottles or cold water/ice to keep your res cold if needed. i also add a little h2o2 to my res to keep it clean a bit. good luck!

 

[pizzapuffer]

also tds(ppms) and ec are sometimes the same thing and sometimes not. it all depends on your meter. if you have a mid range one like mine the mw 802, the ec and tds are the same thing. it is just a mathematical conversion. EC is actually your total dissolved metals and only metals. normally tds is total dissolved solids metal and non metal. but since mine is only a mid range priced one it only does metals.

now if you get a blue lab the ec is metals like it says. electrical conductivity, the more metals in a liquid, the more conductive it is, makes sense right? however your tds reading is your total dissolved solids both metal and non metal.

so as far as tds, a lot of these meters are lying to us and just doing a math conversion from EC. even though mine isnt a blue lab, it gets me by for now and i am satisfied with it i guess. just disappointed they kinda lie about readings.

also temperature greatly effects your tds reading. hotter water can dissolve more solids. so when calibrating your tds/ec it is important to check the temp of the calibration solution and the nutrient solution.

ppms is just a measurement they use for tds. parts per million. im sure you knew this though.

i recommend you check this out. very informative http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/07/how-strong-are-my-nutrients-
ec-and-tds-meters-explained/

 

[blowincherrypie]

I've been using Advanced Nutrients PH perfect line and I can tell you I haven't used my PH meter since my second batch of nutes. Hell I rarely use my EC meter even anymore (I've found those syringes you can get at most pharmacies to give children cough syrups work as good/better than anything I can find at my hydro shops) and my ladies still seem to love it. I found the best price for AN at www.sunflowersupplies.com . If you got the PH perfect you could save the money on the PH and just get the cheap $50 EC meter for your ppm's and you be all good player!

 

[rwbrock]

Do you know your res temps?

 

[happynoodleboy]

1 important thing you left out is the strain. strong sativa strains need a very low ppm. one i grow shows signs of stress at around only 700 ppms.

cheap ph and ppm meters can also be the problem. i prefer blue lab but their warranties suck and they're like $300. i use a milwaukee MW 802. about $120-130 read some bad reviews but mine seems to stay in calibration. my cheaper $20 milwaukee ph 600 is junk. the calibration stays at near 7 but when you go from around 5-6 it is really is off compared to my MW 802. the junk ph600 also is way off on the ph 4 calibration solution after calibrating the 7 solution to 7. it says the 4 is much higher. my MW 802 is right on. another thing is make sure your calibrating at proper temps. temps will change your ph. you should also ph at least once a day unless you can get it to stay stable. seemed like when i used botanicare nutrients i only had to ph once and it would hardly change after.

to be honest when i first started doing hydro i didnt even do ppms. you can get away with just using milliliters and starting off light slowly building your way up until you got that strain dialed in or change your water source. ppms is better though but will take up more time obviously.

i would just start out with something simple like botanicare. you dont need all those supplements. imo they just make weed taste more chemical in a vaporizer. i prefer the more organic and keeping it simple. for small plants start off with like 1/8 the recommended strength. i wouldnt go much more than half strength unless the plant is showing deficiencies. keep your water temp at 68-70F if possible. you can actually still get a decent crop with warmer temps but then you will probably get root rot sacrificing some of your yield. keep humidity as low as possible. keep room temps to about 80. dont be afraid to keep your dark temps to like 75, i find this helps prevent powdery mildew. some mildew strains of it dont need much humidity but just a tiny moisture from a drastic temp change. change your res every week. every res change run some plain ph'ed water through for a bit, like 15-20 minutes at least. keep ph at 5.8-6.2. you can pot ice packs or bottles or cold water/ice to keep your res cold if needed. i also add a little h2o2 to my res to keep it clean a bit. good luck!

I can't be certain of the strain since it did come from a friend's bag of of weed that she said was kush, but I my educated guess is that it's 60% indica 40% sativa. Thanks alot for the facts about temperatures and the right pH level.

 

[happynoodleboy]

I've been using Advanced Nutrients PH perfect line and I can tell you I haven't used my PH meter since my second batch of nutes. Hell I rarely use my EC meter even anymore (I've found those syringes you can get at most pharmacies to give children cough syrups work as good/better than anything I can find at my hydro shops) and my ladies still seem to love it. I found the best price for AN at www.sunflowersupplies.com . If you got the PH perfect you could save the money on the PH and just get the cheap $50 EC meter for your ppm's and you be all good player!

pH perfect? sign me up! I'm down with anything to make growing easier at this point. Thanks!