I have 24 lights all together. 9 600w in (veg room) and 15 1000w in flower room. I have my 15 clones and I am planning on vegging in my flower room(18-6) just this time and before I switch to flower I will clone each plant and allow them to veg in the veg room while their mothers are flowering and continue the cycle. With this plan in the future I will have at times 24 lights all on at once.
Elecrical, Timer problems. Please help!
- Thread starter cr250cra1
- Start date
contraptionated, I also want to point out that each power line running to my 200 amp box read 110 and both together read 220. I have no ground or neutral line and I think that may be hindering the current from recirculating. Could I put a copper ground pole in the ground to use as a ground? I was pondering this before but since all my power was working fine I sort of forgot about it. I also forgot to mention how thankfull I am for your help so heres a big THANK YOU SIR!
Running a 15A rated timer on a 20A circuit is a *serious* fire hazard. You can either run a sub-panel and then break out from there (I would), or for each 3 light circuit, install something like this: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/INTERMATIC-Indoor-Water-Heater-Timer-1A573 (2 phase, 240v, 30A Hot Water Tank timer).
-spek
-spek
No ground or neutral? Can you please take some pics of how you have things wired, especially inside of your panel?
-spek
Yes I can I will upload the picture when I get home.
I wired it using 10-2.
Here's the pictures hope this helps.
Attachments
contraptionated
New Member
Sorry for the delayed response. With this amount of lights you will be drawing a total of 187 amps if they were all on at the same time. I calculate the full ballast load which is about 10% more than the lamp wattage. If you run them all at the same time , just make sure the feeder can handle that. If the service is a regular split phase 220v house panel, you would need a 2 pole 125amp minimum just for the lights. If its a 3 phase service, a 3 pole 100amp would do well and it would leave you with more than enough amps for other equipment ( vents, pumps, heaters etc.).
The best way I have found in my experience to control any hid lighting is to first go on ebay and find some used White-Westinghouse size 1 , 3 pole contractors. Each one will handle 3 lights of any wattage you're using. You will need 8 of these ( or if you can't find White-Westinghouse just get another size 1, 3 pole contactor). You will use any timer you like to energize the holding coils of the contactor. The holding coil terminals are usually two small screws located in the center on either side of the contactor. Simply make up an extension cord with a male plug and use the black and white wire on the other end of the cord to terminate onto the holding coil terminals. The male plug end of the cord is plugged into the timer. Turn the timer on and you will hear POP!!! That's a good sign ! That means the holding coil works and it will establish a connection between the three LINE and LOAD terminals located at the top and bottom of the contactor. Now, simply connect your 120 volt hot leg ( usually colored black) to one of the three LOAD terminals on the bottom of the contactor. Also, connect the 120v hot conductor from the ballast supply cord ( which you cut so that you could work with the wire itself and not a plug) to the respective LINE terminal at the top of the contactor. Now splice the white wires from the ballast supply cord and the branch circuit . Also, don't forget to splice the green ground wire to a green grounding conductor from the branch circuit. You can now control 1 light on a timer without frying anything. Simply repeat this process 24 times and remember to only group ballast loads on the same contactor if you intend to have them on simultaneously.
The best way I have found in my experience to control any hid lighting is to first go on ebay and find some used White-Westinghouse size 1 , 3 pole contractors. Each one will handle 3 lights of any wattage you're using. You will need 8 of these ( or if you can't find White-Westinghouse just get another size 1, 3 pole contactor). You will use any timer you like to energize the holding coils of the contactor. The holding coil terminals are usually two small screws located in the center on either side of the contactor. Simply make up an extension cord with a male plug and use the black and white wire on the other end of the cord to terminate onto the holding coil terminals. The male plug end of the cord is plugged into the timer. Turn the timer on and you will hear POP!!! That's a good sign ! That means the holding coil works and it will establish a connection between the three LINE and LOAD terminals located at the top and bottom of the contactor. Now, simply connect your 120 volt hot leg ( usually colored black) to one of the three LOAD terminals on the bottom of the contactor. Also, connect the 120v hot conductor from the ballast supply cord ( which you cut so that you could work with the wire itself and not a plug) to the respective LINE terminal at the top of the contactor. Now splice the white wires from the ballast supply cord and the branch circuit . Also, don't forget to splice the green ground wire to a green grounding conductor from the branch circuit. You can now control 1 light on a timer without frying anything. Simply repeat this process 24 times and remember to only group ballast loads on the same contactor if you intend to have them on simultaneously.
contraptionated
New Member
The aforementioned is just how to wire the lighting controller. The feeder wires would be sized according to your supply . What kind of electrical service do you have? Is it 3 phase or regular split phase 220v?
contraptionated
New Member
Okay, never mind the last post. If you need to have a remote sub panel the feeder will need to be at least 1 awg copper just for the lighting sub panel but preferably 1/0 ( pronounced one awt) and 125 amp 2 pole breaker to feed a 24 circuit sub panel. You will need a minimum of 20-15 amp breakers to feed 15-1000w and 9-600 watt . Bring the branch lighting circuit conductors from the breakers into 3-deep 5"-1900 boxes ( connect these 1900 boxes to the sub panel with 3/4" offset nipples) and run 14-3 rubber cords ( connected to the 1900 boxes with preferably cord connectors) from the junction boxes to the size 1 motor contactors. Land the hot legs from each rubber cord to the respective LOAD terminals of the contactor( make sure the other side of the hot leg is connected to the appropriately marked breaker). You can double up on the 600' s. Meaning, 2-600s on one breaker via 3 wire splice in the junction box or 3 wire splice at the contactor ( preferably at the junction box, but you will need more wire if you do so).
Great explanation! Okay now I understand the way the Westinghouse contactor works, I was puzzled by them yesterday but this explanation cleared things up! thanx a lot.
Is my current recirculating if I don't have a ground or neutral? I have full power and everything powers up just fine. Is that what your saying I should use the 1 awg line for? Can I pound down a copper ground rod and run my 1 awg from there for a ground? Thank you for your help!
Tripped circuits
Well-Known Member
I want to say those conductors look a bit small for 200 amp service feeders. Also no neutral means u have problems if u ever short circuit or ground fault anything. And if u touch a box u can kill yourself. A 30 amp ground fault specially with the undersized wire would lead to a very high ground fault current. Easily over 600 amps. U don't want to touch an energized 600 amp metal enclosure that's shorted. U might not get up. Also the earth is not a sufficient path to return a fault u need to run neutrals for a safe return path to the source.
Line is 0 AWG, Where should I run my ground if the earth is insufficient? Box is 200 amp box with 200amp main breaker. What would you recommend as a safe path?
Tripped circuits
Well-Known Member
A ground rod won't return enough current back to the panel if the panel is even grounded to trip the breaker. The reason being is that the resistance in earth is 25 ohms and using ohms law a 30 amp fault will only return about 8 amps back to the circuit box which will not clear a ground fault (short). Just be safe. And a contactor is the way to solve your problem with the hydrofarm timer to open the contactor.
contraptionated
New Member
The answer I provided does not pertain to what size wire needed for a 200 amp service. He already has that. He needs a sub panel ( if he wants to run less cables to his lighting controller location) and that is why I suggested a smaller ( less than 200 amp) feeder cable coming from an appropriately sized 2-pole breaker for a sub panel. For example, if he has 187 amps total load of lighting branch circuits, you could split that load in half with 2 hot legs ( A phase and B phase) to get 93.5 amps per phase than multiply that by 1.25 to get the minimum size 2 pole breaker to feed the lighting controller sub panel. I was not telling him how to size a 200 amp feeder. Also, it is unlikely that there is no neutral at the main panel unless the panel is a specific purpose load distribution center for industrial motors. Although, if there is no neutral, you could always buy a zig-zag transformer to create an isolated neutral. Open up the panel door and look for the neutral block.
contraptionated
New Member
Also, what are your main panel feeder characteristics? 3 phase or split phase 220v? If you have 3 wires going into the main lug of the panel guts ( or 3 wires going into the main breaker which feeds the panel guts) then you have 3 phase power and your sub panel breaker and feeder can be sized differently than if the main panel were split phase 220v which would have 2 wires ( usually marked black and red) coming into the main lug or breaker. Are any lighting or receptacle circuits being fed from this existing panel? If so, there has to be a neutral ran with the feeder. Fat chance it isn't there.
Tripped circuits
Well-Known Member
Every 120/240 v single phase systems should have a neutral. Just depends on where it stops and how and where it is bonded to the ground. Which should only be in one place. In the disco after the meter before the main panel. Or in the main panel box if there is no disco. From the point where the neutral and ground bond they should be seperated from each other and the neutral shouldn't touch the metal enclosures. With the type of wiring he is using he could use bonding locknuts on each side and attempt to use the outer coating of the raceway for ground. But he should still have a neutral. Neutral's in a 240/120 system are for safety of over current or ground fault protection. Are the plugs u using 120 or 240 volt plugs.
This isn't necessarily accurate. A "single phase" 240v does not need a neutral. This is because the power is distributed between two separate feeds. It needs a ground, but not a neutral. Perhaps it does where you live, but not here. A NN/2 will carry two hot across the pair, and the bare wire to ground. There is no neutral.
A 120v does though... power in, then return over neutral; in Canada (at least Ontario). In the fuse panel, neutral is bonded directly to earth (ground).
-spek