Fox farm nutes, What could be wrong?

[learning05]

The "newest" growth looks healthy but eventually some of the growth right below the tops of the plant get brown tips. Usually the older more mature the leaves on all three plants start showing deficiency signs, taco/become crispy, turn brown staring from the tips to edges till it reaches the stem and then eventually die. Others leaves show a little browning on the tips but thats all.

My understanding is the problem lies in my feeding/nutrient because the plants are sucking stored resources out of the older leaves. But if that is the case then it means that they are under-fed and have to resort to using stored resources or is that part of the natural life cycle? I have the ppms up to 625 (140 being from my tap) today with 6.3 gals of water

I know there could be other reasons such as heat stress but I have CFLS and the room never gets >80 f on the hottest days. So frustrated in trying to figure out what I am doing wrong lol.

They are growing! They seem to be "filling in more" now instead of growing vertically.

 

[learning05]

Also the pistil production on two of my smaller plants seem to be happening very slowly in comparison to the tallest-plant that showed its sex first. I know part of this is genetically determined; however, what other factors slow this down?

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

also sounds like you could be bringing the PPM up slightly. check your PH meter foirst and if thats dead on then i think it would be safe to raise the PPM to around 800, they may be on 12/12 right now but they still using lots of N for preflower stretch.

The "newest" growth looks healthy but eventually some of the growth right below the tops of the plant get brown tips. Usually the older more mature the leaves on all three plants start showing deficiency signs, taco/become crispy, turn brown staring from the tips to edges till it reaches the stem and then eventually die. Others leaves show a little browning on the tips but thats all.

My understanding is the problem lies in my feeding/nutrient because the plants are sucking stored resources out of the older leaves. But if that is the case then it means that they are under-fed and have to resort to using stored resources or is that part of the natural life cycle? I have the ppms up to 625 (140 being from my tap) today with 6.3 gals of water

I know there could be other reasons such as heat stress but I have CFLS and the room never gets >80 f on the hottest days. So frustrated in trying to figure out what I am doing wrong lol.

They are growing! They seem to be "filling in more" now instead of growing vertically.

first off the gallons of water make no difference in the PPM, 500gal of water at 500ppm is the same as 1 gal of water at 500ppm

raise your PPM's man, 1k at this point should be a safe zone for almost every strain.

 

[learning05]

Thanks a ton. I am going to raise the ppms up. It is at 675 now. How do you know what the right ratio of nutes to mix are? Right now, I got 1.5 tbsp of Big Bloom, 6 tsps of Tiger Bloom, 1 tsp of grow big, and 4 tsps of cal mag.

Should I just add a tsp of each?

 

[churchhaze]

I second raising the nutes to at least 1k. 675ppm at that pH isn't going to burn plants, it's borderline starving them! My water comes out of the tap at 550ppm! I'd even recommend seeing how high you can get it just to learn how your plant reacts to different ppm levels. You can actually get pretty high with some strains (as high as 2000ppm) assuming the mix is correct, but the leaves will start becoming rigid. Realistically, you don't want to go over 1600 during peak flowering times, when nutes are pulled up the most. After flowering peaks off, the plant will eat much less and much lower ppm is needed.

I see all sorts of potassium, nitrogen, and magnesium, and maybe even iron deficiency going on. Use more of the grow bottle. It looks like it has lots of potassium.

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

Thanks a ton. I am going to raise the ppms up. It is at 675 now. How do you know what the right ratio of nutes to mix are? Right now, I got 1.5 tbsp of Big Bloom, 6 tsps of Tiger Bloom, 1 tsp of grow big, and 4 tsps of cal mag.

Should I just add a tsp of each?

sure...to be honest i have no experience with fox farm lineup, im using general hydro flora nova grow/bloom in my DWC and is pretty much no maintenance, i was using the grow in the veg stage and then 1/2 and 1/2 in transition then full bloom in flower. so far so good, my tap water is perfect PH so i just add about 6 tblsp of the bloom to about 4 gal of water (around 1200 ppm) and call it good, no deficiency and no tox. im growing ablueberry gum and from my readings blueberry is really sensitive to nutrients so i have been going light on the nutroients. next time i top off rezz im going to bring PPM up to around 1600 for last 3-4 weeks of flower.

 

[learning05]

sure...to be honest i have no experience with fox farm lineup, im using general hydro flora nova grow/bloom in my DWC and is pretty much no maintenance, i was using the grow in the veg stage and then 1/2 and 1/2 in transition then full bloom in flower. so far so good, my tap water is perfect PH so i just add about 6 tblsp of the bloom to about 4 gal of water (around 1200 ppm) and call it good, no deficiency and no tox. im growing ablueberry gum and from my readings blueberry is really sensitive to nutrients so i have been going light on the nutroients. next time i top off rezz im going to bring PPM up to around 1600 for last 3-4 weeks of flower.

I will look into GH Flora grow/bloom for my next grow, I don't think FF is for me. I have tried to raise the ppms up and it is now at 785 with 140 from my tap. I am not sure if raising the ppm caused the tips of the leaves on top of the plant to brown or its another issue but I noticed it this morning. Its been 3.9 weeks since the 12/12 switch. The buds are growing on the tallest female and its getting frosty around those areas but they haven't swelled at all. I have to buy a microscope to inspect the trichomes when I get closer to harvest.

Here is the progress. Is this natural or are there indications of something still being wrong? Please advice, they look deficient to me but why would the tips of plants burn when I increased the ppms. FF suggests feeding a higher Micro rate then I have been giving them but I don't know if adding more Big Bloom would help. I would like to increase their ppms; however, I am not sure if doing so will make them better or worse...

 

[churchhaze]

Follow their feeding schedule. If it suggests a higher amount of micro, give it to them.

I agree that FF isn't for you.. (or anyone...) It seems like over half the people coming to the help section have FF nutes. Seriously, what's the deal? It's like the volkswagen of plant food. Everyone wants one because they break and cost lots of money to fix.

 

[sohighifly]

Follow their feeding schedule. If it suggests a higher amount of micro, give it to them.

I agree that FF isn't for you.. (or anyone...) It seems like over half the people coming to the help section have FF nutes. Seriously, what's the deal? It's like the volkswagen of plant food. Everyone wants one because they break and cost lots of money to fix.

I use FF line up including microbe kanga and open sesame cha ching and beastie bloomz with FFoF and have never had an issue whatsoever,infact if you look at my journals they are a picture of health.Don't blame the tool blame the hand using it,no offense OP.

 

[learning05]

Foxfarm are probably great nutes. This is 100% something I am doing wrong. Also I am not using their other recommended cha-ching/beastie bloomz. I am sure experienced growers can use their lineup and grow amazing plants. I was just saying, I am not a fan due to my lack of growing experience. Anyways, do you guys have any idea about what is going on in the pics above?

 

[sohighifly]

I am also on my first grow,and am not in flower.With that being said I wish I had more advice or explanations for you my friend but I don't want give you advice I don't have first hand experience with as I fear it would just be guess work on my part.There are some very talented people on this site and I am sure they will chime in soon.Good Luck

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

I will look into GH Flora grow/bloom for my next grow, I don't think FF is for me. I have tried to raise the ppms up and it is now at 785 with 140 from my tap. I am not sure if raising the ppm caused the tips of the leaves on top of the plant to brown or its another issue but I noticed it this morning. Its been 3.9 weeks since the 12/12 switch. The buds are growing on the tallest female and its getting frosty around those areas but they haven't swelled at all. I have to buy a microscope to inspect the trichomes when I get closer to harvest.

Here is the progress. Is this natural or are there indications of something still being wrong? Please advice, they look deficient to me but why would the tips of plants burn when I increased the ppms. FF suggests feeding a higher Micro rate then I have been giving them but I don't know if adding more Big Bloom would help. I would like to increase their ppms; however, I am not sure if doing so will make them better or worse...

View attachment 2653713View attachment 2653714View attachment 2653715View attachment 2653716View attachment 2653724

they look about normal for thier age, usually flower does not really begin till 2 weeks after you flip the lights. as far as the plants health i am at a stand still as to what it could be, maybe you got a bad bottle of nutes or something i dont know, i have pretty much thrown out everything i have had at you.

i would defo check out the flora series, im having really great results with little to no effort. im not saying its the nutrients but the user friendlyness of the GH flora nova bloom/grow seems to be great.

have you made sure your meters are calibrated and that they are reading accurate? anyways live the guy above said hopefully someone comes along who may have experienced this before.

 

[learning05]

I am checking the meters again. I am going to order calibration solutions for my Milwaukee PH600 pen and my HM TDS EZ Pen tonight. You mentioned that I can check my ph pen in whole milk, so I will try that. Can't do much until my solutions come in the mail because buying it locally is lot more expensive.

I have a old milwaukee 7.01 sol that is contaminated with some debris from my res but the ph pen still reads it at 7 and my tap water at 7 which was reported as the ph by my water company. Also a bluelab ph 7 sol which it reads at a 7.2.

I have never calibrated the HM TDS EZ Pen but it is supposed to be factory calibrated and ready to use. Is there any way to test the ppm of any common household stuff till I get the calibration solution?

Thanks your advice is much appreciated. As for their progress, the tallest one is getting frosty/swelling more and more. The other two are still growing pistils. One of my girls has a crazy stretch issue going on. I think it is because she is growing under the biggest cfl (3000k 85w) and the reflector hood is shorter than the length of the bulb; therefore, the light is less concentrated and more spread out (that is what I think at least). The two branches are stretching outward and not toward the bulb. I was reading that potassium (K) deficiencies could cause a stretch also but I don't know if that is the case here.

It is kind of odd because they are stretching from the bottom of the stalk horizontally toward the wall where it isn't getting much light. So I am thinking I should cut them off so that energy isn't wasted. It has been 4 weeks into switching to 12/12 so is it too late to cut them? Should I cut one and see the reaction?

Honestly, I think the problem lies in three different strains sharing a small res. My reasoning is since their roots are all tangled and different genetics have different needs/requirements, they are probably causing nute imbalances. My inexperience adds to the issue. But each plant displays its own symptoms/issues so I guess my only solution is to change the res solution every 4 days.

My next grow I will do three separate buckets for sure, add a HPS/HID, and get some known genetic seeds.

 

[learning05]

So this has started to appear....

 

[GandalfdaGreen]

Im betting on this.

• Calcium (Ca): Strong bones, duh. no really. strong cell walls, cell division, and root growth (mostly the newer root hairs). Helps absorbtion of K. Calcium moves slow, and tends to concentrate in roots/older growth.
  
  Abundance: Too much can lead to other deficiencies. this can be caused by clay soils, unbuffered coco/humus, or excessive lime in the soil.
  
  Deficiency: First visible in newer growth, leaf tips will die, tips may curl, growth is stunted. there will be a weakness in stems/branches. underdeveloped roots, and bacteria problems can arise. *can be cuased by too much potassium/nitrogen* calcium deficiency is commonly mistaken for over ferting. its key to notice in these pics that early stages of deficiency appear in the serrated edges/tips of the leaves, but its not just a death/necrosis, its a small circular spots of death, not just burn marks.young leaves will develop dwarfing, a strap-like shape, and shoots stop growing and thicken.
  ​
  
  

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

I am checking the meters again. I am going to order calibration solutions for my Milwaukee PH600 pen and my HM TDS EZ Pen tonight. You mentioned that I can check my ph pen in whole milk, so I will try that. Can't do much until my solutions come in the mail because buying it locally is lot more expensive.

I have a old milwaukee 7.01 sol that is contaminated with some debris from my res but the ph pen still reads it at 7 and my tap water at 7 which was reported as the ph by my water company. Also a bluelab ph 7 sol which it reads at a 7.2.

I have never calibrated the HM TDS EZ Pen but it is supposed to be factory calibrated and ready to use. Is there any way to test the ppm of any common household stuff till I get the calibration solution?

Thanks your advice is much appreciated. As for their progress, the tallest one is getting frosty/swelling more and more. The other two are still growing pistils. One of my girls has a crazy stretch issue going on. I think it is because she is growing under the biggest cfl (3000k 85w) and the reflector hood is shorter than the length of the bulb; therefore, the light is less concentrated and more spread out (that is what I think at least). The two branches are stretching outward and not toward the bulb. I was reading that potassium (K) deficiencies could cause a stretch also but I don't know if that is the case here.

It is kind of odd because they are stretching from the bottom of the stalk horizontally toward the wall where it isn't getting much light. So I am thinking I should cut them off so that energy isn't wasted. It has been 4 weeks into switching to 12/12 so is it too late to cut them? Should I cut one and see the reaction?

Honestly, I think the problem lies in three different strains sharing a small res. My reasoning is since their roots are all tangled and different genetics have different needs/requirements, they are probably causing nute imbalances. My inexperience adds to the issue. But each plant displays its own symptoms/issues so I guess my only solution is to change the res solution every 4 days.

My next grow I will do three separate buckets for sure, add a HPS/HID, and get some known genetic seeds.

TDS stands for Total Dissolved Salts...so you can get some RO water which should have a PPM of 0-10 dpending on the quality of filter used. then find a equasion online for how much salt to add. adding salt will require as scale as they weigh it not measure in a measuring spoon, your common weed scale should be decent enough to do the job withing a few ppm/TDS/EC

 

[learning05]

Im betting on this.

• Calcium (Ca): Strong bones, duh. no really. strong cell walls, cell division, and root growth (mostly the newer root hairs). Helps absorbtion of K. Calcium moves slow, and tends to concentrate in roots/older growth.
  
  Abundance: Too much can lead to other deficiencies. this can be caused by clay soils, unbuffered coco/humus, or excessive lime in the soil.
  
  Deficiency: First visible in newer growth, leaf tips will die, tips may curl, growth is stunted. there will be a weakness in stems/branches. underdeveloped roots, and bacteria problems can arise. *can be cuased by too much potassium/nitrogen* calcium deficiency is commonly mistaken for over ferting. its key to notice in these pics that early stages of deficiency appear in the serrated edges/tips of the leaves, but its not just a death/necrosis, its a small circular spots of death, not just burn marks.young leaves will develop dwarfing, a strap-like shape, and shoots stop growing and thicken.
  ​
  
  

I added 1 tsp of cal-mag plus to the res. Hopefully it will help solve the issue along with the res change I did yesterday (already had cal-mag in there).

 

[learning05]

TDS stands for Total Dissolved Salts...so you can get some RO water which should have a PPM of 0-10 dpending on the quality of filter used. then find a equasion online for how much salt to add. adding salt will require as scale as they weigh it not measure in a measuring spoon, your common weed scale should be decent enough to do the job withing a few ppm/TDS/EC

I don't have a scale unfortunately. But I will get a calibration solution from my hydro store.

 

[learning05]

Check out the video I took. I really need some help! I don't want them to die...

[video=youtube_share;zdCnsUE6DUI]http://youtu.be/zdCnsUE6DUI[/video]

 

[learning05]

RetiredMatthebrute, I checked the ph pen in whole milk and it immediately went to a 6.5 then a 6.6 in a few seconds. I left it in the sample for about 2 minutes. So seems like the ph pen is functioning properly. I will get the NaCl calibration solution and test the HM tds ez pen. Please take a look at the video I posted above. I am at a stand still at what I should do.

What would you do at this point?