High Pressure Air Atomized Aeroponics Design-grow journal

[Dionili]

Hello, I'm a stranger on the forum as for now, but i have been lurking for a very long venture, big thanks to Trichy Bastard, Atomizer, and Petflora for inspiring this build/grow!

First i'd like to say that my dreams for aeroponics stretch far beyond just growing pot, as much as i love the stuff, i also believe that HPAAA can change the world by making food cheaper to grow, more available to areas plagued by horrible conditions and much more! not to mention its less harsh on the environment, and uses much less energy.


Anyway, on to the build/designs

Currently i'm thinking of running this pump http://www.wholesalepumps.com/index.php?p=product&id=228&parent=8

To a 150 psi 34 gallon accumulator tank

I'm not sure what compressor i should be looking into purchasing i know it should have a large storage tank, but i also need this application to make as little noise as possible.

I'm also trying to figure out what type of nozzles to use, I've read so much, from what i understand there is no "right choice" so far but i need at least some options..

I'd like to use a large rubbermaid as a root chamber (this is indoor, insulation is not too much of an issue, also using water cooled lights)
perhaps this one :http://www.rubbermaid.com/Category/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?CatName=Storage&SubcatId=Roughneck&Prod_ID=RP091415

I'm thinking a container of that size should hold 10 plants (full size) just fine then again correct me if i'm wrong please.

As for connectors and high pressure lines i will use the slandered John Guest tubing (PEX) 1/4 and fittings

Nute's will be General hydroponics.


I'm still looking for pressure switches and solenoids If anyone has any suggestions. as for a timer i think my digital cycle timer may do it, need to check the increments to see if they go down to the second. if not i'm int he market for that too.

Pictures as soon as i have a solid parts list and purchase them!

 

[oxanaca]

i bought most of the parts to build a hp aero system,except the nozzles, but ended up deciding Air atomizing was a simpler route.

i recomend this timer. its so simple to use. i own three of them and i use them for a lot more than aeroponics.
http://www.rammeter.com/atc-automatic-timing-controls-422ar-100-s0-x-multi-range-repeat-cycle-timer.php
you need this to
http://www.rammeter.com/atc-automatic-timing-controls-pf083a-8-pin-din-rail-surface-mounted-socket.php


it looks like your trying to go pressure fed air atomizing aero, boldim trying to go the gravity fed route my self. im hoping i can get these delavan nozzles to work as i can get them for around $100 a pair with the adapter
i have one of those tubs sitting directly in front of me right now, if what you mean by 10 full sized plants is 10 trees than the answer is no. i would never want to use this as a chamber its really to small, if you can theres a lot to be gained by building your own chamber.

 

[Dionili]

i bought most of the parts to build a hp aero system,except the nozzles, but ended up deciding Air atomizing was a simpler route.

i recomend this timer. its so simple to use. i own three of them and i use them for a lot more than aeroponics.
http://www.rammeter.com/atc-automatic-timing-controls-422ar-100-s0-x-multi-range-repeat-cycle-timer.php
you need this to
http://www.rammeter.com/atc-automatic-timing-controls-pf083a-8-pin-din-rail-surface-mounted-socket.php


it looks like your trying to go pressure fed air atomizing aero, boldim trying to go the gravity fed route my self. im hoping i can get these delavan nozzles to work as i can get them for around $100 a pair with the adapter
i have one of those tubs sitting directly in front of me right now, if what you mean by 10 full sized plants is 10 trees than the answer is no. i would never want to use this as a chamber its really to small, if you can theres a lot to be gained by building your own chamber.
View attachment 2622064

I may be skipping the air assisted bit, the more i research the less it seems to fit my needs, having an air compressor running all day is not a viable option to me due to the noise and my fiance' wanting to kill me for the amount of attention i give the hobby as is, I'm not going to completly abandon air assisted, i'm jut gonna put it on a back burner for now and perfect an HPA system then convert it to HPAAA a cycle or two down the line.

For now i'm going to build something similar to Trichy Bastard's HPA system. my only issue is how many nozzels should i use with a 34 gallon accumulator or rather how many do i need to achieve the perfect micron range.

I'm also having a hell of a time looking for PRV valves and and a pressure regulator, also a pressure switch. i intended to plumb it this way:

30gallon or larger res>>>200 mesh inline filter>>>pressure switch>>>accumulator>>PRV>>Regulator>> solenoid >>Nozzels

as for the chamber, i agree, that is way too small, i think the deck box TB used may be my best bet. Honestly they sell PVC board and that may be a viable option as long as i can have them do perfect cuts since i dont have a table saw.

I'm thinking a chamber size of 4 feet long 2.5 wide and 3.5 deep should be awesome. not sure yet.


Right now whats pushing me away from AA is the initial cost and loudness/energy consumption of the air compressor as this needs to be stealth and efficient

I love the idea that i only need my water pump on for a few minuets every few days, and that i can have it run on a 12v battery with a trickle charge

cost would have not been of much importance had i not also have to get water cooled hoods. way too many issues with heat in SFL....


EDIT**** by full size i mean max of 4 feet, plants will only be vegged in a low pressure cloner untill roots form so maybe a week. i'm not trying to grow 7foot trees. i like colas. plus its indoors. i do have a ceiling lol.

 

[PetFlora]

As you mentioned me, I no longer use hpa. I found that properly done DWC and/or my DIY Spray and Drain set ups are simpler to master, cost considerably less (less than the pump alone in most cases) and produce excellent results when compared side-by-side to hpa.

Now, those guys will say, 'but you never added the critical ingredient- a pressure tank, solenoids...' and they are right, BUT, my hpa roots were very close to THPA, so IMHO, I doubt I left on the table

But good luck

Check out my threads for how these systems function

 

[Atomizer]

The cost difference between HP and AA probably isnt that much when you add everything up. Syphon fed AA has fewer components than HP and a single nozzle should be enough for the chamber.
HP has the advantage of being power outage proof if you run 12v electrics. I guess you could resort to a foot pump in an emergency with AA but it`d make your leg ache

 

[Dionili]

As you mentioned me, I no longer use hpa. I found that properly done DWC and/or my DIY Spray and Drain set ups are simpler to master, cost considerably less (less than the pump alone in most cases) and produce excellent results when compared side-by-side to hpa.

Now, those guys will say, 'but you never added the critical ingredient- a pressure tank, solenoids...' and they are right, BUT, my hpa roots were very close to THPA, so IMHO, I doubt I left on the table

But good luck

Check out my threads for how these systems function

My last grow was DWC and i had amazing results i just hate moving all that water

 

[Dionili]

The cost difference between HP and AA probably isnt that much when you add everything up. Syphon fed AA has fewer components than HP and a single nozzle should be enough for the chamber.
HP has the advantage of being power outage proof if you run 12v electrics. I guess you could resort to a foot pump in an emergency with AA but it`d make your leg ache

my issues with aa right now are 1. parts are hard to find 2. i'm still having trouble making decent plans for HPA...

 

[oxanaca]

As you mentioned me, I no longer use hpa. I found that properly done DWC and/or my DIY Spray and Drain set ups are simpler to master, cost considerably less (less than the pump alone in most cases) and produce excellent results when compared side-by-side to hpa.

Now, those guys will say, 'but you never added the critical ingredient- a pressure tank, solenoids...' and they are right, BUT, my hpa roots were very close to THPA, so IMHO, I doubt I left on the table

But good luck

Check out my threads for how these systems function

i heard you mention that you had got good roots with your system before, do you have any pictures?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

For now i'm going to build something similar to Trichy Bastard's HPA system. my only issue is how many nozzels should i use with a 34 gallon accumulator or rather how many do i need to achieve the perfect micron range.

Okay, so it seems you have a decent understanding of things and have some ideas in your head. After my experiences- I would really recommend going smaller the first time- you may have to re-do some things and small is less investment of time and money, and is more nimble in being able to quickly and easily make changes. Just a ten gallon accumulator is plenty unless you have some large pressure vessel already in your possession. In my deck box, the pump did not run very often at all(it's been a while now but I think it was perhaps once per day for 2 minutes or so, maybe less), that was with 8 misters. If you knew your accumulator only had to be filled less than once per 24 hours, you could always set the pump on a timer and have it recharge the accumulator at a time when it was safe to come on like 2pm for instance and it would have more than enough charge to make it to the next day at 2pm, never coming on in the middle of the night when it would be noticeable... I really think the solenoids opening and closing every couple minutes was much more an issue, however if they were wrapped with some foam and the chamber itself were insulated, I don't think they would be too bad. Number of misters has nothing to do with making the "micron range" -the misters themselves and how crisply the fluid is delivered to them does. The number of misters is only to ensure adequate coverage to your roots and obviously the more you have, the more nutrients you will go through in a given misting. As Atomizer once explained to me- The idea is to use as little misters as possible while still ensuring coverage as a priority. My deck box seemed to have good coverage, so you could use it's dimensions to figure out that 8 of the bio-control nozzles seemed about right for that sized box for coverage, without oversaturating. I still had to use timing cycles of around .3-.5 seconds misting- especially when the plants were young, however it seemed possible to mist everything without oversaturating given everything else being setup properly...

 

[Dionili]

Okay, so it seems you have a decent understanding of things and have some ideas in your head. After my experiences- I would really recommend going smaller the first time- you may have to re-do some things and small is less investment of time and money, and is more nimble in being able to quickly and easily make changes. Just a ten gallon accumulator is plenty unless you have some large pressure vessel already in your possession. In my deck box, the pump did not run very often at all(it's been a while now but I think it was perhaps once per day for 2 minutes or so, maybe less), that was with 8 misters. If you knew your accumulator only had to be filled less than once per 24 hours, you could always set the pump on a timer and have it recharge the accumulator at a time when it was safe to come on like 2pm for instance and it would have more than enough charge to make it to the next day at 2pm, never coming on in the middle of the night when it would be noticeable... I really think the solenoids opening and closing every couple minutes was much more an issue, however if they were wrapped with some foam and the chamber itself were insulated, I don't think they would be too bad. Number of misters has nothing to do with making the "micron range" -the misters themselves and how crisply the fluid is delivered to them does. The number of misters is only to ensure adequate coverage to your roots and obviously the more you have, the more nutrients you will go through in a given misting. As Atomizer once explained to me- The idea is to use as little misters as possible while still ensuring coverage as a priority. My deck box seemed to have good coverage, so you could use it's dimensions to figure out that 8 of the bio-control nozzles seemed about right for that sized box for coverage, without oversaturating. I still had to use timing cycles of around .3-.5 seconds misting- especially when the plants were young, however it seemed possible to mist everything without oversaturating given everything else being setup properly...

Honestly life has been kicking me in the balls lately and i have pretty much lost everything including my home... besides my pc and DJ equipment....

I'm not abandoning this project, i'm hoping as soon as i get my life back together i can get right back to it. Though seeing as you have posted on my thread i owe you a reply, you have indirectly taught so much, and i intend to put it to good use...


I'll try and model this project in 3d soon so most people can get a better understanding of HPA and HPAAA

I can at least still do that much....

 

[indrhrvest]

my only issue is how many nozzels should i use with a 34 gallon accumulator or rather how many do i need to achieve the perfect micron range.

We've run over 20 nozzles on just a 24oz accumulator. Volume through the pump and out the nozzles are going to be dictated by the feed times, not the accumulator. So you can either run a smaller accumulator and your pumps will run for a very short time (3-6 seconds every 8 minutes), or you can use a larger accumulator and the pump will run much longer, but not as often.

So do you want to hear a BRrrrrrrrrrrr for a few seconds every 8-10 minutes, or a very long BRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr every few hours.

 

[Atomizer]

A long brrr at 11am every few days is preferable to a short brrr every 8-10minutes from 1am to 5am.
Lower flow pumps dont go brrr at all but they dont have the flowrate to run umpteen nozzles. If you use it with a larger accumulator you can run as many nozzles as you like and theres no "brrr"

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Honestly life has been kicking me in the balls lately and i have pretty much lost everything including my home... besides my pc and DJ equipment....

I'm not abandoning this project, i'm hoping as soon as i get my life back together i can get right back to it. Though seeing as you have posted on my thread i owe you a reply, you have indirectly taught so much, and i intend to put it to good use...


I'll try and model this project in 3d soon so most people can get a better understanding of HPA and HPAAA

I can at least still do that much....

Sorry man... I've been through life's ups and downs throughout my HPA ventures myself. It seems to have started with Cavadge and run down the line... Things always get better, wishing u the best! It's cool in a way how these projects kept my mind busy and off the other tragedies abound, perhaps it will also help you too to have sumthin to look forward to and dream about...

 

[Dionili]

A long brrr at 11am every few days is preferable to a short brrr every 8-10minutes from 1am to 5am.
Lower flow pumps dont go brrr at all but they dont have the flowrate to run umpteen nozzles. If you use it with a larger accumulator you can run as many nozzles as you like and theres no "brrr"

Having spoken to atomizer via pm just after the creation of this thread is why i'm choosing to go with a larger tank for my system design, the fact that the pump does not have to run everyday despite the number of nozzles is perfect for my plans. i'm trying to develop a system you can just set up in your back yard, or crop field, where ever where there is light. so you don't need to plug in any wires unless you are inside. basically if the whole mist system is rigged to 12v with solar charger and decent battery you would need 0 energy if you are growing outside. it be perfect for growing in an area with very limited resources

Also say you are in south florida ( i am ) and a hurricane hits. kills your pumps and all your stuff that would be horrible if you could not charge your tank with nutes. with a large tank you also have a large buffer against shit like that as long as you can power your solenoid.

Sorry man... I've been through life's ups and downs throughout my HPA ventures myself. It seems to have started with Cavadge and run down the line... Things always get better, wishing u the best! It's cool in a way how these projects kept my mind busy and off the other tragedies abound, perhaps it will also help you too to have sumthin to look forward to and dream about...

Yeah dude. Shit is always gonna happen, i was on top and had everything going for me pretty nice a few months ago. then my life crashed and all i have left is my laptop and my girl. (and turn tables and a mixer..lol) I may be homeless soon. i dont know, but i am filling out all the forms and getting ready to start college asap. My dream keeps me going. the love and support from my girl is my motivation. I'm only 22, i'm sure i will get over this and my life will be much better afterwards.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Having spoken to atomizer via pm just after the creation of this thread is why i'm choosing to go with a larger tank for my system design, the fact that the pump does not have to run everyday despite the number of nozzles is perfect for my plans. i'm trying to develop a system you can just set up in your back yard, or crop field, where ever where there is light. so you don't need to plug in any wires unless you are inside. basically if the whole mist system is rigged to 12v with solar charger and decent battery you would need 0 energy if you are growing outside. it be perfect for growing in an area with very limited resources

Also say you are in south florida ( i am ) and a hurricane hits. kills your pumps and all your stuff that would be horrible if you could not charge your tank with nutes. with a large tank you also have a large buffer against shit like that as long as you can power your solenoid.



Yeah dude. Shit is always gonna happen, i was on top and had everything going for me pretty nice a few months ago. then my life crashed and all i have left is my laptop and my girl. (and turn tables and a mixer..lol) I may be homeless soon. i dont know, but i am filling out all the forms and getting ready to start college asap. My dream keeps me going. the love and support from my girl is my motivation. I'm only 22, i'm sure i will get over this and my life will be much better afterwards.

Ahh perfect, so you know what you want and why. My system is easily turned to solar with just adding the panel, I really considered it at first, but decided it was easy enough to add later... Even with power, hope the hurricane doesn't give your plants a haircut... oh, and from personal experience, let the girl be an inspiration, however don't forget to be completely self sufficient no matter what- it's more attractive anyway. I leaned on mine a bit because I'd definitely earned it- and when she let me down I really fell over pretty hard... Not fun... As in everything, moderation is key. At your age chances are she may not be your wife eventually, but then again, maybe so... Wish you luck in all things happy bro...

 

[linuxman]

As you mentioned me, I no longer use hpa. I found that properly done DWC and/or my DIY Spray and Drain set ups are simpler to master, cost considerably less (less than the pump alone in most cases) and produce excellent results when compared side-by-side to hpa.

Now, those guys will say, 'but you never added the critical ingredient- a pressure tank, solenoids...' and they are right, BUT, my hpa roots were very close to THPA, so IMHO, I doubt I left on the table

But good luck

Check out my threads for how these systems function

Interesting, I started to suspect that HPA aeroponics seems to be somewhat overkill for the serious home grower. Over the past years I have seen countless of people happy with their low pressure aeroponics system. Do you have any posts or journals where you compared side by side of HPA with LPA?

I think HPA is more suited for massive large agriculture purposes where every little possible savings in nutrients and water makes a great deal in which LPA can not do at that scale.

 

[linuxman]

The cost difference between HP and AA probably isnt that much when you add everything up. Syphon fed AA has fewer components than HP and a single nozzle should be enough for the chamber.
HP has the advantage of being power outage proof if you run 12v electrics. I guess you could resort to a foot pump in an emergency with AA but it`d make your leg ache

What is the advantage of AA? Didn't NASA said 50 microns was the ideal droplet size? THPA is 50 microns, AA is close to the single digits of microns which seems counterintuitive. Anything much smaller than 50 microns is not better, roots can not absorb it a fast as to 50 microns.