Just keep in mind that regs are just as hermie prone as fems. In some cases regs are even more hermie prone. Part of breeding is trying to diminish that natural trait...
Feminized Seeds users.
- Thread starter hsfkush
- Start date
Just keep in mind that regs are just as hermie prone as fems. In some cases regs are even more hermie prone. Part of breeding is trying to diminish that natural trait...
Jogro
Well-Known Member
On fem'd ceeds.
The conventional wisdom is that feminized ceed genetics are somehow "weaker" than conventionally bred plants and that these shouldn't be used for breeding. There is also a thought that plants grown from feminized ceeds are more likely to "go hermie" than plants grown from regular ceeds.
Knowing what I know about genetics, I see no reason why either of these two things should be true.
In a nutshell, I have no reason to believe that "reversing" a female plant to create male pollen alters its DNA in any way. So if you're crossing two plants, it shouldn't make a difference in the offspring whether you cross a male x a female or a female x a reversed female. Either way, the offspring can only get genes from the parents, and the genes they get shouldn't be any different just because one parent was chemically "tricked" into putting its gametes into pollen instead of flowers. If one or both of the parents are hermie-prone, the offspring will probably be too, and if the parents aren't, the offspring probably won't be, irrespective of the gender of the parents.
As a matter of practice, despite the conventional wisdom, a lot of ceed lines actually are created from sex-reversed versions of "clone only" strains. Some are good, some not so good. . .don't think the reversal process itself is to credit/blame for this.
IE a good breeder should be able to put out good fem ceeds, where as a bad breeder may not be able to put out good regular ones.
All that said, personally, I'll always choose regular ceeds of a given line if they're available.
My thought is, I typically sex the plants in 2 liter containers under fluoro lights in a literally bookshelf sized area. It simply doesn't take a lot of space, effort or electricity to do this, and I don't consider it a big deal. Though usually not, sometimes I want a male to make ceeds, and I'm always hoping I'll get more than 50% female (which seems to be the norm with some lines), so these "could" be a better value.
I also tend to avoid breeders who don't put out regular ceeds. Its not that there is necessarily anything wrong with the fem ceeds, I just think there is something a little shady/gimmicky about this practice. The breeders who are doing this either want to charge twice as much money per seed (without doing twice as much work), and/or want to make it difficult for the "little guy" home grower to make their own ceeds from their genetics. All the breeders I actually respect as breeders put out regulars or both reg and fem.
In terms of my actual experience with them, I've never had an issue growing I could attribute specifically to fem ceeds. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything I really "need" that's fem only, but if there were, I'd still buy them. I don't have a fundamental problem with fem ceeds. . .they exist for a reason, and if you're a small home grower with limited time and space, and zero interest in breeding, these could be a good choice.
The conventional wisdom is that feminized ceed genetics are somehow "weaker" than conventionally bred plants and that these shouldn't be used for breeding. There is also a thought that plants grown from feminized ceeds are more likely to "go hermie" than plants grown from regular ceeds.
Knowing what I know about genetics, I see no reason why either of these two things should be true.
In a nutshell, I have no reason to believe that "reversing" a female plant to create male pollen alters its DNA in any way. So if you're crossing two plants, it shouldn't make a difference in the offspring whether you cross a male x a female or a female x a reversed female. Either way, the offspring can only get genes from the parents, and the genes they get shouldn't be any different just because one parent was chemically "tricked" into putting its gametes into pollen instead of flowers. If one or both of the parents are hermie-prone, the offspring will probably be too, and if the parents aren't, the offspring probably won't be, irrespective of the gender of the parents.
As a matter of practice, despite the conventional wisdom, a lot of ceed lines actually are created from sex-reversed versions of "clone only" strains. Some are good, some not so good. . .don't think the reversal process itself is to credit/blame for this.
IE a good breeder should be able to put out good fem ceeds, where as a bad breeder may not be able to put out good regular ones.
All that said, personally, I'll always choose regular ceeds of a given line if they're available.
My thought is, I typically sex the plants in 2 liter containers under fluoro lights in a literally bookshelf sized area. It simply doesn't take a lot of space, effort or electricity to do this, and I don't consider it a big deal. Though usually not, sometimes I want a male to make ceeds, and I'm always hoping I'll get more than 50% female (which seems to be the norm with some lines), so these "could" be a better value.
I also tend to avoid breeders who don't put out regular ceeds. Its not that there is necessarily anything wrong with the fem ceeds, I just think there is something a little shady/gimmicky about this practice. The breeders who are doing this either want to charge twice as much money per seed (without doing twice as much work), and/or want to make it difficult for the "little guy" home grower to make their own ceeds from their genetics. All the breeders I actually respect as breeders put out regulars or both reg and fem.
In terms of my actual experience with them, I've never had an issue growing I could attribute specifically to fem ceeds. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything I really "need" that's fem only, but if there were, I'd still buy them. I don't have a fundamental problem with fem ceeds. . .they exist for a reason, and if you're a small home grower with limited time and space, and zero interest in breeding, these could be a good choice.
Jogro
Well-Known Member
I understand the convenience of fem'd ceeds, especially if you're facing strict LEGAL plant counts, but just as a suggestion here, if you have the room to flower out 3-5 full sized plants at once, you almost certainly have the room to sex them if you were interested in doing so.
You don't need a whole "room" to veg and sex plants, nor does your veg area need to be in a different room than your flowering one, so long as you make it light-tight, and only open it up when the flowering area is lighted too (which you would anyway).
In fact, since veg plants are necessarily smaller than flowering ones, veg areas are usually considerably smaller than corresponding flowering ones.
If you're interested in doing so, you can create and maintain a perfectly viable seedling/veg/clone/mothering area under cheap tube or CFL fluorescent lights in a tiny cabinet, bookshelf sized area, or even a smaller one. In fact, you could probably sex and veg three plants in a PC case, and/or root half a dozen clones in the same space if you wanted.
I happen to use 2 liter containers for this, but you could potentially use smaller ones if you liked. Clones can be rooted and maintained for long periods of time in ordinary plastic cups. See here for a complete overview of my complex cloning "system", plus a look at a plant in veg, pre-flower. You can scroll to the end of the report to see how the plant progressed from small container to large one through flower:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/585422-sickmeds-williams-wonder-grow-journal-2.html#post8396492
Now, even though having a small seperate veg area is a little more work, it gives you a LOT of extra flexibility in terms of having a place to start ceeds, maintain clones, or do some vegging. Its also a *LOT* more productive than running serial 24-0 then 12-12 hour veg/flower in the same space. The reason is that the larger main flowering area is ALWAYS being used to flower. . .there is no "down" time like you get doing "runs" of 24-0 veg. As soon as you harvest one plant, you replace its space with an already waiting clone or vegged plant from the veg area, so you're not wasting any flowering space either.
Also for your consideration, if you do choose to run a continuous 12-12 flowering area, its also perfectly viable to sex plants in there if you like.
Again, you can just keep the plants in small containers to save space until they show gender. So long as you are dilligent and check the pre-sexed plants on a regular basis, you'll have plenty of time to cull males before they actually make pollen to ceed your crop. Now, running 12-12 from ceed may not be yield-optimal for some strains because you don't have the same time to train them or let them get super big before flowering, but it actually does work well for stretchy/long flowering pure sativa or sativa-dominant dominant strains, because its another way of controlling their height.
hsfkush
Well-Known Member
I run 12/12 from seed, so they stay fairly small. I pulled just over an oz for the first time the other day too!I understand the convenience of fem'd ceeds, especially if you're facing strict LEGAL plant counts, but just as a suggestion here, if you have the room to flower out 3-5 full sized plants at once, you almost certainly have the room to sex them if you were interested in doing so.
You don't need a whole "room" to veg and sex plants, nor does your veg area need to be in a different room than your flowering one, so long as you make it light-tight, and only open it up when the flowering area is lighted too (which you would anyway).
In fact, since veg plants are necessarily smaller than flowering ones, veg areas are usually considerably smaller than corresponding flowering ones.
If you're interested in doing so, you can create and maintain a perfectly viable seedling/veg/clone/mothering area under cheap tube or CFL fluorescent lights in a tiny cabinet, bookshelf sized area, or even a smaller one. In fact, you could probably sex and veg three plants in a PC case, and/or root half a dozen clones in the same space if you wanted.
I happen to use 2 liter containers for this, but you could potentially use smaller ones if you liked. Clones can be rooted and maintained for long periods of time in ordinary plastic cups. See here for a complete overview of my complex cloning "system", plus a look at a plant in veg, pre-flower. You can scroll to the end of the report to see how the plant progressed from small container to large one through flower:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/585422-sickmeds-williams-wonder-grow-journal-2.html#post8396492
Now, even though having a small seperate veg area is a little more work, it gives you a LOT of extra flexibility in terms of having a place to start ceeds, maintain clones, or do some vegging. Its also a *LOT* more productive than running serial 24-0 then 12-12 hour veg/flower in the same space. The reason is that the larger main flowering area is ALWAYS being used to flower. . .there is no "down" time like you get doing "runs" of 24-0 veg. As soon as you harvest one plant, you replace its space with an already waiting clone or vegged plant from the veg area, so you're not wasting any flowering space either.
Also for your consideration, if you do choose to run a continuous 12-12 flowering area, its also perfectly viable to sex plants in there if you like.
Again, you can just keep the plants in small containers to save space until they show gender. So long as you are dilligent and check the pre-sexed plants on a regular basis, you'll have plenty of time to cull males before they actually make pollen to ceed your crop. Now, running 12-12 from ceed may not be yield-optimal for some strains because you don't have the same time to train them or let them get super big before flowering, but it actually does work well for stretchy/long flowering pure sativa or sativa-dominant dominant strains, because its another way of controlling their height.
Jogro
Well-Known Member
Under what sort of lighting?I run 12/12 from seed, so they stay fairly small. I pulled just over an oz for the first time the other day too!
hsfkush
Well-Known Member
CFL's, I have around 400w's of it.