The ULTIMATE Flowering Spectrum

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Fonzarelli said:
As I watch the different flower rooms progress(all have a different spectrum) I start to draw a somewhat new conclusion to it all. I bet there will be many who agree with this thought. I'm starting to realize that the best way to flower a plant is to start the 12/12 under some kind of blue heavy light whether it be a MH/CMH or what have you. Then about half way through flower, switch to a red heavy light like HPS all the while combining both spectra with additional deep red light.

I'm finding that plants started under MH at 12/12 produce healthier and more abundant flower sites as opposed to HPS. But plants finished under MH tend to be airier and leafier than HPS. Adding blue light to HPS will help with the trich production the way MH do.

So far I've been having the best results starting the 12/12 cycle under MH and when the plants start bulking, that is the best time to switch to a red heavy spectrum. This really makes sense when you think about it because during the first half of the budding cylce there is still quite a bit of veg going on, leaf growth, root growth, etc. It's when the flowers need to start bulking that it's best to make your spectrum more red dominant.

This holds true in the natural cycle of things. In late summer when buds start forming, there is still quite a bit of blue light in the Sun's spectrum. Come late fall, there is hardly any blue and the spectrum 75% on the red side of the spectrum. This is the time when buds start packing on the weight.

In all the trials I've done, i.e. finishing under blue light vs. red, initiating flowering under red light vs. blue, this has been the most successful.

I encourage all of you that have access to both types of lighting to start the 12/12 cycle under MH and about half way through the cycle when the buds want to start putting on weight, switch to a higher power HPS. This seems to be the final consensus. If you have access to any deep red light sources to add them to both light sources as deep red seems to encourage both the photosynthesis process(leaf growth) AND encourage the Pf to Pfr flower cycle where the buds really start to put on the weight.

To me, it seems that yellow light discourages bud set and flower formation, but encourages the bulk/weight part of the ripening cycle. Since HPS are mostly yellow/orange light, I would discourage the use of them until the final stage or last 4-5 weeks of flowering and go with MH(K temp doesn't seem to make a difference) for the first 1-4 weeks of flowering.
Click to expand...
I smell BS......
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Just caught myself up

Great read so far, keep it up.. and pleasant

Now that I have my new lights here I am somewhat doubting myself on my ratio I chose, still satisfied thus far.. but feel like I am missing quite. a. bit. of what I need for my goal of strictly flowering panels.

Does anyone know a good source of strong 660 and DR's for supp lighting? Astir is only 630nm..
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
That is physically, exactly what I am looking for...

but they don't give a whole lot of information on things besides the "all red" has 660nm.. but then why is it called "all red" if it's "all 660?"

I would like to know a bit more about the FR...

and $5.33/w.... oof!
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I am testing the yellow v blue right now.

I replaced 2 Quantum Flower bulbs (yellow/red) with first one, then another ATI Actinic Blue (peak at 421). So far so good, but 2/8 being actinic seems too much. They are bulking up, but keeping an eye on them, ready to put one Q-flower back in.
 
ellydee

ellydee

Well-Known Member
Scotch ,what about Eshine? They could probably make whatever you wanted.
I just ordered 3 100watt 11 spectrum (the same as Advanced ) 3g lamps from them for $112.00 each plus shipping ( $1.46 per watt).
If and when they fail, I'll just toss 'em. Not worth fixing.
 
ellydee

ellydee

Well-Known Member
Hyroot, I meant the eshine lamp has the same spectrum as the Advanced lamp. Yes, they are not making the lights for Advanced anymore.
 
Fonzarelli

Fonzarelli

Active Member
tenthirty said:
Fonz,

What do you think of this spectrum?
View attachment 2595679
Click to expand...
That spectrum comes from the new Philips 315w CMH AGRO lamp that Cycloptics is using in their grow cabs. The spectrum is great, the 315w part isn't. They have e-ballasts to run these, but they don't come at a low cost. I've heard that they will also run just fine on a standard 400w magnetic ballast, but I would confirm it with Philips before trying it since the lamps are over $100 a pop. And you would need 3 of them to match the power of a 1000w = unreal expense. If 315w is enough for your grow then I would say go for it! I'm really excited about these new lamps and so are a bunch of other growers. They are going to work very well.

I just ordered the Philips 860w CMH Allstart 3700K lamp JUST TO MEASURE THE SPECTRUM. Yeah I know, what a crazy way to spend the money right? I can't find a spectral analysis anywhere for their 860w Allstart and would really like to know what it consists of. This lamp is a Vertical running only lamp. I am going to build my own reflector and may even build my own ballast to run it unless buying a Sunsystem is cheaper.

Has anyone had experience with the Sunsystem Harvest Pro 1000w MH ballast here? They say they have an easy access door to change out the capacitor, which sounds a little sketchy. Would the Harvest Pro Elite be the way to go? The Elite keeps the magnetic ballast part(the HOT part) separate from the capacitor and other crap that shouldn't be getting hot.

There is this new company out that is boasting their new full-spectrum lamp and it looks identical to the AllStart. This new company(DNA lighting solutions) have developed their own E-ballast to run their 900w CMH which would be a nice piece of equipment to use. I am thinking that the lamp is just the Philips Allstart, however, and they are just rebranding/packaging them with their own label. There is a large CMH thread over in IC talking about it right now, but no one has the spectrum for the 860w Allstart.

I've looked and looked online to no avail. If the 860w spectrum is nice like this one, it would be a hit. They also run on a standard M141 mag ballast. The only part I worry about is the amount of blue light in the 860w since it's a 3700-4000k lamp. The graph you posted here is for their 3100K lamp which is more along the "denser flowers, less leaves" line.

I really wish Philips would start making a 860w CMH Agro lamp that would be in the 3100K area AND have the deep red peak like their 315w Agro have.

These lamps really are the way to go if they weren't so damn expensive for lamp and ballast.
 
Fonzarelli

Fonzarelli

Active Member
Scotch089 said:
That is physically, exactly what I am looking for...

but they don't give a whole lot of information on things besides the "all red" has 660nm.. but then why is it called "all red" if it's "all 660?"

I would like to know a bit more about the FR...

and $5.33/w.... oof!
Click to expand...
660nm is still red, deep red part of the spectrum.

FR is ~730nm. Someone makes those lamps in low 12w par38s I think.
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
I apogize if I had misspoken, I am aware 660 is still red.

I do not have any heavy peaks besides 630nm, which drew to asking about 660 AND Far Red's.. And 365 now that we are in to it.

I'm at work now, but I'll give that eshine link a look later El, thanks

Floodlights and multichips seem to be my best options so far.
 
tenthirty

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
That spectrum comes from the new Philips 315w CMH AGRO lamp that Cycloptics is using in their grow cabs. The spectrum is great, the 315w part isn't. They have e-ballasts to run these, but they don't come at a low cost. I've heard that they will also run just fine on a standard 400w magnetic ballast, but I would confirm it with Philips before trying it since the lamps are over $100 a pop. And you would need 3 of them to match the power of a 1000w = unreal expense. If 315w is enough for your grow then I would say go for it! I'm really excited about these new lamps and so are a bunch of other growers. They are going to work very well.
Click to expand...
Here is a little ditty for your reading pleasure.
http://greenbeamslighting.com/education/

In my situation, 2 315's replaced 1 1k hps.

IMG_0701.jpg
 
Fonzarelli

Fonzarelli

Active Member
How do you like the 315w so far? Are you seeing any difference in your plants? How long have you been running them? $525 for the reflector alone is WOW........why is that so dang expensive? The ballast and lamp price is reasonable, but the reflector price is outrageous!
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Yes the price is really disheartening, shame really......but that almost 2 ppf/per watt is killer if true/looking at you Philips:-P

yeah ten can't talk about the cycloptics system due to his contract with the manufacturer.......

good stuff in here Fonz!
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
.....and the compost pile keeps on growing. But this is Advanced ya know. All you have to do is look at the 100's of scientific journals referenced. ;)
 
Sativa Dragon

Sativa Dragon

Active Member
Scotch089 said:
Just caught myself up

Great read so far, keep it up.. and pleasant

Now that I have my new lights here I am somewhat doubting myself on my ratio I chose, still satisfied thus far.. but feel like I am missing quite. a. bit. of what I need for my goal of strictly flowering panels.

Does anyone know a good source of strong 660 and DR's for supp lighting? Astir is only 630nm..
Click to expand...
I got some 430nm and a driver from Ebay

IMG_0019.jpgIMG_0014.jpg
 
Sativa Dragon

Sativa Dragon

Active Member
UVB is real important, I have a thousand watt mixed spectrum LED, a 1k horti, and a Baddass ballast low feq, square wave, with 4 26 watt UVB cfls, I use a Sunmaster 1000watt MH bulb for Vegging, it seems to be the shit.

Peace
 
Fonzarelli

Fonzarelli

Active Member
PSUAGRO. said:
Yes the price is really disheartening, shame really......but that almost 2 ppf/per watt is killer if true/looking at you Philips:-P

yeah ten can't talk about the cycloptics system due to his contract with the manufacturer.......

good stuff in here Fonz!
Click to expand...
They are starting to get the right idea now at least. Give it some time and the price will drop, people will copy the tech and we will all be happily growing under a single point light source with a premo spectrum soon enough. Most of us anyway. ;) With the new E-ballast tech for CMH, they are claiming 40,000 hour lamp specs with the new lamps. Can't beat that!
 
Sativa Dragon

Sativa Dragon

Active Member
Pretty sure you can get some LED's in the UV spectrum, the 430nm ones I use are the same as the ones dentists use to cure your fillings they are crazy weird when they are on, alot like black lights.IMG_0005.jpgIMG_0006.jpgView attachment 2597101IMG_0015.jpgView attachment 2597103IMG_0020.jpg

just something I threw together to do a test growon a thread at Icmag, then I got banned for a month hee hee, so I guess the thread there won't be coming to Fruition.

Peace
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top