Fonzarelli
Active Member
^^^^^^^RGB Laser System SPECTROMETER with WAVES software they are out of Germany.
The ULTIMATE Flowering Spectrum
- Thread starter Fonzarelli
- Start date
cannawizard
Well-Known Member
Qwave? Qmini? And your running it with the MiniLas? --expensive equipment..
Fonzarelli
Active Member
^^^^^^Mini and yes it's not cheap! But I'm a scientist and that's the way it is bro. Lab equipment is generally not cheap.
mamakush
Active Member
Nice pics on the last page, Sour D is a nice looking plant. I've got some growing under LED in my journal, link in sig for inquiring minds 
Does your spectrometer give a read out for YPF, PPF, anything like that? My understanding is that spectrometers are great for measuring light intensity, but it does not weight the present wavelengths in terms of photosynthetic usefullness. Also, your y axis is labeled as intensity. I understand ADC stands for apparent diffusion coefficient, but I'm wondering what the units of the intensity are... watts/m^2xs or umol/m^2xs or otherwise?
Does your spectrometer give a read out for YPF, PPF, anything like that? My understanding is that spectrometers are great for measuring light intensity, but it does not weight the present wavelengths in terms of photosynthetic usefullness. Also, your y axis is labeled as intensity. I understand ADC stands for apparent diffusion coefficient, but I'm wondering what the units of the intensity are... watts/m^2xs or umol/m^2xs or otherwise?
Fonzarelli
Active Member
At this point I'm just trying to find out if using the 1000w HPS is better than 1000w MH. I've been flowering with a 3k 1000w MH + 4 h150 red LEDs. The red LEDs add a lot of growing power to the MH. If the HPS doesn't do as well, then I will switch back to MH.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
My spectrometer measures wavelength from 365nm to 740nm and gives a spectral analysis measured in nanometers(X-axis) vs. RELATIVE INTENSITY(Y-axis).Nice pics on the last page, Sour D is a nice looking plant. I've got some growing under LED in my journal, link in sig for inquiring minds
Does your spectrometer give a read out for YPF, PPF, anything like that? My understanding is that spectrometers are great for measuring light intensity, but it does not weight the present wavelengths in terms of photosynthetic usefullness. Also, your y axis is labeled as intensity. I understand ADC stands for apparent diffusion coefficient, but I'm wondering what the units of the intensity are... watts/m^2xs or umol/m^2xs or otherwise?
Any spectral analysis you see for a particular lamp that is being sold is going to be the same. It's not the overall intensity that the graph shows, but the relative intensity between the wavelengths present in the light source. Does that help?
As far as what plants use, I already know the wavelengths. By adding more to a MH or HPS spectrum you are giving the plant what it wants = more growing power.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Same here, the spectrum looks good, but that's all I can go by as I've never run a 1000w HPS with LEDs before. It's quite possible that it will be more finely tuned light than the plants can handle. Over-saturation is possible.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Yes........
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Now here's some space between reality and theory.
I'd say the "proper" light spectrum is not your problem. Have you ever grown before?
UB
hyroot
Well-Known Member
You must not know much about spectrum. Its the most important role in growing. You can manipulate plant growth with spectrum. Red light will promote root growth. but if only red use early on it can case hermies and or make plants think their finishing, 660 promotes the most trichome production, budding works best with a combo of 460, 555, 630, 660, 730, 760. UV is not necessary. You can cause any photo plant to.flower with 24/0 using 730, 760. blue and green wavelengths promote co2 absorption on leaf surface. much much more.Now here's some space between reality and theory.
I'd say the "proper" light spectrum is not your problem. Have you ever grown before?
UB
This thread is about spectra, not your ability to argue with what you do not know as usual.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Like I said, I beat this spectrum stuff to death many years ago which includes spectral analysis on about 15 different fluors, HID's, etc. Do some research on photomorphogenesis. There is some validity to it. Red mulch for tomatoes supposedly increases production. I'm just saying that the plant doesn't care nearly as much as you guys do what spectrum it is receiving as long as it contains both the red and blue spectrum, which most light sources do. You're buying light.....choose the most efficient you can get which for me was the 600W HPS. It's more of a feel good thing for the grower.
Don't get me wrong, what Fonz is doing and using is fascinating and I wish him well....but growing is NOT all about light spectrum.
UB
Don't get me wrong, what Fonz is doing and using is fascinating and I wish him well....but growing is NOT all about light spectrum.
UB
cannawizard
Well-Known Member
I'll be taggin' along then, if you are really a scientist, i'm looking forward to the results of your findings.. best of luck
HiloReign
Well-Known Member
Just like the LED forum gets a beating from anyone who has owned or still owns HID lighting, lol.
I'd love to see the "ultimate" spectrum at work...
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Photomorphogenesis is defined as the ability of light to regulate plant growth and development, independent of photosynthesis.
I believe the site you are quoting is this one; http://www.clemson.edu/hort/research/photo.php
I am also controlling how the plants grow by adding wavelengths not found in HPS lamps. I guess I don't follow what you are trying to say. On one hand you say the HPS grows just as well without the added wavelengths and that it's all the other environmental factors that grow my nice buds, but then you keep quoting photomorphogenesis which has a lot to do with what this thread is all about. It's kind of hypocritical don't you think?
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Oh I see now, you pulled that photo out of a journal entry I made months ago. I still don't know why, but maybe you would care to explain it? If you are trying to ask me what the T5's are all about I can tell you. I start all my cuttings out under colored T5's. 2 reds and 2 blues. It works great and has everything to do with photomorphogenesis. In this SPECTRUM there is a lot of Deep Blue and Deep Red and very little green light. This light spectrum grows the plants very healthy, very short and stalky and requires less maintenance than even a 1000w MH.
The reason I start all my cuttings under this spectrum is that when I move them under HID lighting for flower they do not stretch as much and have strong stems and branches to hold up the flowers.
It's a great spectrum/method and I've had numerous forum users complement on the spectrum because they have given it a try and found out how nice it really works. These T5 lamps did not exist 15 years ago when you say you were doing all this research. Like I said before, a lot has changed. There is a 500 page thread totally dedicated to the use of colored T5's and the growers there are even flowering under them and getting HID comparable buds. I choose not to flower under and T5 lighting because there is so much blue light in all florescent types of lamps that it causes healthy leaf growth which is not really ideal for budding. Good for pre-flowering, and flower-set but not actually budding.
I finish my plants under HID. I have been using 1000w MH combined with 4 x h150 Kessil red leds for budding with absolute amazing results. Now I'm giving the 1000w HPS a try because the HPS spectrum is mostly yellow-orange, which in combination with the extra blue from the deep purple leds, should put even more growing power into the overall spectrum. The deep red in the h150's should balance out all the yellow-orange in the HPS.
If you have done ANY research into new findings you would see why I'm doing this. It has everything to do with photomorphogenesis, so I guess I'm just not following your argument. Please enlighten me.
And, yes, I have grown before. I produce much of my own food. Doing so for over 20 years, so what?
AK47 at day 30 under CMH 400w,
View attachment 2594343
The reason I start all my cuttings under this spectrum is that when I move them under HID lighting for flower they do not stretch as much and have strong stems and branches to hold up the flowers.
It's a great spectrum/method and I've had numerous forum users complement on the spectrum because they have given it a try and found out how nice it really works. These T5 lamps did not exist 15 years ago when you say you were doing all this research. Like I said before, a lot has changed. There is a 500 page thread totally dedicated to the use of colored T5's and the growers there are even flowering under them and getting HID comparable buds. I choose not to flower under and T5 lighting because there is so much blue light in all florescent types of lamps that it causes healthy leaf growth which is not really ideal for budding. Good for pre-flowering, and flower-set but not actually budding.
I finish my plants under HID. I have been using 1000w MH combined with 4 x h150 Kessil red leds for budding with absolute amazing results. Now I'm giving the 1000w HPS a try because the HPS spectrum is mostly yellow-orange, which in combination with the extra blue from the deep purple leds, should put even more growing power into the overall spectrum. The deep red in the h150's should balance out all the yellow-orange in the HPS.
If you have done ANY research into new findings you would see why I'm doing this. It has everything to do with photomorphogenesis, so I guess I'm just not following your argument. Please enlighten me.
And, yes, I have grown before. I produce much of my own food. Doing so for over 20 years, so what?
AK47 at day 30 under CMH 400w,
View attachment 2594343
Fonzarelli
Active Member
As I watch the different flower rooms progress(all have a different spectrum) I start to draw a somewhat new conclusion to it all. I bet there will be many who agree with this thought. I'm starting to realize that the best way to flower a plant is to start the 12/12 under some kind of blue heavy light whether it be a MH/CMH or what have you. Then about half way through flower, switch to a red heavy light like HPS all the while combining both spectra with additional deep red light.
I'm finding that plants started under MH at 12/12 produce healthier and more abundant flower sites as opposed to HPS. But plants finished under MH tend to be airier and leafier than HPS. Adding blue light to HPS will help with the trich production the way MH do.
So far I've been having the best results starting the 12/12 cycle under MH and when the plants start bulking, that is the best time to switch to a red heavy spectrum. This really makes sense when you think about it because during the first half of the budding cylce there is still quite a bit of veg going on, leaf growth, root growth, etc. It's when the flowers need to start bulking that it's best to make your spectrum more red dominant.
This holds true in the natural cycle of things. In late summer when buds start forming, there is still quite a bit of blue light in the Sun's spectrum. Come late fall, there is hardly any blue and the spectrum 75% on the red side of the spectrum. This is the time when buds start packing on the weight.
In all the trials I've done, i.e. finishing under blue light vs. red, initiating flowering under red light vs. blue, this has been the most successful.
I encourage all of you that have access to both types of lighting to start the 12/12 cycle under MH and about half way through the cycle when the buds want to start putting on weight, switch to a higher power HPS. This seems to be the final consensus. If you have access to any deep red light sources to add them to both light sources as deep red seems to encourage both the photosynthesis process(leaf growth) AND encourage the Pf to Pfr flower cycle where the buds really start to put on the weight.
To me, it seems that yellow light discourages bud set and flower formation, but encourages the bulk/weight part of the ripening cycle. Since HPS are mostly yellow/orange light, I would discourage the use of them until the final stage or last 4-5 weeks of flowering and go with MH(K temp doesn't seem to make a difference) for the first 1-4 weeks of flowering.
I'm finding that plants started under MH at 12/12 produce healthier and more abundant flower sites as opposed to HPS. But plants finished under MH tend to be airier and leafier than HPS. Adding blue light to HPS will help with the trich production the way MH do.
So far I've been having the best results starting the 12/12 cycle under MH and when the plants start bulking, that is the best time to switch to a red heavy spectrum. This really makes sense when you think about it because during the first half of the budding cylce there is still quite a bit of veg going on, leaf growth, root growth, etc. It's when the flowers need to start bulking that it's best to make your spectrum more red dominant.
This holds true in the natural cycle of things. In late summer when buds start forming, there is still quite a bit of blue light in the Sun's spectrum. Come late fall, there is hardly any blue and the spectrum 75% on the red side of the spectrum. This is the time when buds start packing on the weight.
In all the trials I've done, i.e. finishing under blue light vs. red, initiating flowering under red light vs. blue, this has been the most successful.
I encourage all of you that have access to both types of lighting to start the 12/12 cycle under MH and about half way through the cycle when the buds want to start putting on weight, switch to a higher power HPS. This seems to be the final consensus. If you have access to any deep red light sources to add them to both light sources as deep red seems to encourage both the photosynthesis process(leaf growth) AND encourage the Pf to Pfr flower cycle where the buds really start to put on the weight.
To me, it seems that yellow light discourages bud set and flower formation, but encourages the bulk/weight part of the ripening cycle. Since HPS are mostly yellow/orange light, I would discourage the use of them until the final stage or last 4-5 weeks of flowering and go with MH(K temp doesn't seem to make a difference) for the first 1-4 weeks of flowering.