Tea baggers love feudalism.

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
When you get to clicking on your browser, and you surf your way over to RIU, drawn by the sweet smell of the ganj burning, you will quickly find that there are a ton of tea baggers around this site. At least one of them is a LEO and about half of them are in denial about their love for feudalism. They range from neoliberal to voluntaryist and from misguided to openly racist. They fit right into the right wing even if they say they oppose war. They'll comment on this and call me a Marxist or a Commie. At least one of them will say I owe him an explanation of something he could find through his own research if he cared to learn about it. Oh he'll insist that he's got it all figured out, then ask a basic question revealing a complete lack of grasp of the subject.

The Tea Baggers call themselves libertarians but completely disregard that aside from the US and throughout the history of the usage of the word it libertarian has been to describe anarchists. Even Murray Rothbard, the founder of American "libertarianism" and coiner of the term anarchocapitalism admitted as much. He concluded that his movement (which included the likes of Ron Paul) was not an anarchist movement. "Therefore we must conclude we are not anarchists." said he. The Koch Brothers donate heavily toward the Tea Party, the GOP and "The Libertarian Party".

When private property becomes so enshrined into the world view of many, the word property becomes synonymous with liberty. This is because the stratification of socioeconomic classes becomes so distinct and defined and polarized that there is only one (ever shrinking in size) class in which people can truly have liberty. The ones with property. The rest will have nothing but their labor and their children. There will be a hereditary elite and a dearth of socioeconomic upward mobility.

That is feudalism. The purest of these people are ultra right wing nuts who call themselves Voluntaryist, because they know anarchocapitalism is an oxymoron. They have a pretty fantasy they use to sell their views to well meaning people. Some of them are quite aware how dystopian their vile and disgusting views are. They cling to philosophers like Ayn Rand, who sought to redefine altruism as evil and Murray Rothbard who sought to redefine egalitarianism as a revolt against nature. At the very heart of thier beliefs is a doctrine known as Social Darwinism.

They will try to tell us that the hereditary powerful billionaires of the earth should have every right to employ private armies, alleviating the need for a state. The rhetoric is anti-statist and therefore appeals to anarchists. They require the removal of the state in order to enforce a new, completely tyrannical kind of hierarchy.

Such hereditary hierarchy is as absurd (paraphrasing Thomas Paine) as hereditary mathematicians.

Flame away ancaps.
 

Winter Woman

Well-Known Member
yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. one star

Edit: Where do they find these people? WalMart?
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
When you get to clicking on your browser, and you surf your way over to RIU, drawn by the sweet smell of the ganj burning, you will quickly find that there are a ton of tea baggers around this site. At least one of them is a LEO and about half of them are in denial about their love for feudalism. They range from neoliberal to voluntaryist and from misguided to openly racist. They fit right into the right wing even if they say they oppose war. They'll comment on this and call me a Marxist or a Commie. At least one of them will say I owe him an explanation of something he could find through his own research if he cared to learn about it. Oh he'll insist that he's got it all figured out, then ask a basic question revealing a complete lack of grasp of the subject.

The Tea Baggers call themselves libertarians but completely disregard that aside from the US and throughout the history of the usage of the word it libertarian has been to describe anarchists. Even Murray Rothbard, the founder of American "libertarianism" and coiner of the term anarchocapitalism admitted as much. He concluded that his movement (which included the likes of Ron Paul) was not an anarchist movement. "Therefore we must conclude we are not anarchists." said he. The Koch Brothers donate heavily toward the Tea Party, the GOP and "The Libertarian Party".

When private property becomes so enshrined into the world view of many, the word property becomes synonymous with liberty. This is because the stratification of socioeconomic classes becomes so distinct and defined and polarized that there is only one (ever shrinking in size) class in which people can truly have liberty. The ones with property. The rest will have nothing but their labor and their children. There will be a hereditary elite and a dearth of socioeconomic upward mobility.

That is feudalism. The purest of these people are ultra right wing nuts who call themselves Voluntaryist, because they know anarchocapitalism is an oxymoron. They have a pretty fantasy they use to sell their views to well meaning people. Some of them are quite aware how dystopian their vile and disgusting views are. They cling to philosophers like Ayn Rand, who sought to redefine altruism as evil and Murray Rothbard who sought to redefine egalitarianism as a revolt against nature. At the very heart of thier beliefs is a doctrine known as Social Darwinism.

They will try to tell us that the hereditary powerful billionaires of the earth should have every right to employ private armies, alleviating the need for a state. The rhetoric is anti-statist and therefore appeals to anarchists. They require the removal of the state in order to enforce a new, completely tyrannical kind of hierarchy.

Such hereditary hierarchy is as absurd (paraphrasing Thomas Paine) as hereditary mathematicians.

Flame away ancaps.
For it to qualify as feudalism, it must be built around the central institutions of fealty and vassalage. Where/what are they now? No imprecise substitutes please. I don't think it's appropriate to use such precise terms metaphorically. cn
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
For it to qualify as feudalism, it must be built around the central institutions of fealty and vassalage. Where/what are they now? No imprecise substitutes please. I don't think it's appropriate to use such precise terms metaphorically. cn
It is. Fealty will exist in wage slave serfdom. That is exactly what I am describing. The majority of society will have nothing but labor in order to acquire survival and this will act as a goad for them to subordinate themselves to the owning class. They are not chattel, they may freely find another fiefdom to serve.

As for vassalage, what is described that manifests as vassalage in this dystopia is hierarchy between middle and upper class. Some fiefs will dominate others. I would hope such competition is not rampant, but yes, in such a dystopia, I do believe some will lust for ever growing empires.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's appropriate to use such precise terms metaphorically. cn
Good luck making THAT one happen. Precision and truth are not mainstays with this one.

Who is he calling a LEO? Or is THAT just another baseless accusation from the terminally pointless?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
For it to qualify as feudalism, it must be built around the central institutions of fealty and vassalage. Where/what are they now? No imprecise substitutes please. I don't think it's appropriate to use such precise terms metaphorically. cn

You ARE kidding right Canna? you don't see very close parallels between those who would stick up for the rich, claiming that they earned everything they have, and that taxes on the rich should not be raised and that for god sake, no poor person ever gave anyone a job - looks like faithfullness and loyalty to me.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
You ARE kidding right Canna? you don't see very close parallels between those who would stick up for the rich, claiming that they earned everything they have, and that taxes on the rich should not be raised and that for god sake, no poor person ever gave anyone a job - looks like faithfullness and loyalty to me.
I guess my point is that faithfulness and loyalty are qualities, but fealty and vassalage are express contracts with defined terms. It's the same issue I have with the term "wage slave"; it does a violence to what slavery really is. cn
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
It is. Fealty will exist in wage slave serfdom. That is exactly what I am describing. The majority of society will have nothing but labor in order to acquire survival and this will act as a goad for them to subordinate themselves to the owning class. They are not chattel, they may freely find another fiefdom to serve.

As for vassalage, what is described that manifests as vassalage in this dystopia is hierarchy between middle and upper class. Some fiefs will dominate others. I would hope such competition is not rampant, but yes, in such a dystopia, I do believe some will lust for ever growing empires.
and what do you propose the "working class" has ever had to trade beyond their labour?

even your marxism is incomplete and ignorant, and your understanding of fuedalism is laughable.

cry moar, then get a copy of the communist manifesto, marx does a good (if heavily biased) job of describing the manner in which various economic systems work.

prior to the bolshevik revolution, russia was the last of the european feudal states, which is why the message worked. china too was a feudal system before Mao, which is why marxism sold well there

playing with the meaning of words and redefining the terms to claim feudalism exists in modern liberal democracies isnt fooling anyone but the truely ignorant.

Mussolini recognized that classic marxist proletarian revolution was NOT gonna happen in liberal democracies, which is why he developed the Third Way in the first place. most of the marexist world has accepted this idea and OFFERS socialism, rather than trying to impose it with hardline Authoritarian Marxism (which is also called Stalinist Socialism) except the rabid doctrinaires and the Useful Idiots.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
I guess my point is that faithfulness and loyalty are qualities, but fealty and vassalage are express contracts with defined terms. It's the same issue I have with the term "wage slave"; it does a violence to what slavery really is. cn
Liar! Poltroon! Deceiver!

i would offer more imprecations, but as a serf i must needs give to my liege, boon service before the midsummer doth wane.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member

and your solution would be the madness of the mob, and Le Grand Terror in the milieu of Robespierre.

and when the dust settles, a strongman dictator shall arise to impose order on the mob.

have you heard of the corsican nobody who took over after the failure of the french revolution and the rule by the mob?

Bonaparte took power as a direct result of the anarchy of revolutionary france, and it took the armies of half of europe to put him down.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Notice Kynes doesn't deny that he loves feudalism. Nor does he attempt to argue that what Tea Baggers like himself love IS feudalism. He just jumps right into calling me a Marxist, Stalinist or member of the Reign of Terror of the French Revolution.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
Notice Kynes doesn't deny that he loves feudalism. Nor does he attempt to argue that what Tea Baggers like himself love IS feudalism. He just jumps right into calling me a Marxist, Stalinist or member of the Reign of Terror of the French Revolution.
All I notice is a delusional paranoid that keeps spewing oxymorons as though he knows of which he speaketh.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
When you get to clicking on your browser, and you surf your way over to RIU, drawn by the sweet smell of the ganj burning, you will quickly find that there are a ton of tea baggers around this site. At least one of them is a LEO and about half of them are in denial about their love for feudalism. They range from neoliberal to voluntaryist and from misguided to openly racist. They fit right into the right wing even if they say they oppose war. They'll comment on this and call me a Marxist or a Commie. At least one of them will say I owe him an explanation of something he could find through his own research if he cared to learn about it. Oh he'll insist that he's got it all figured out, then ask a basic question revealing a complete lack of grasp of the subject.

The Tea Baggers call themselves libertarians but completely disregard that aside from the US and throughout the history of the usage of the word it libertarian has been to describe anarchists. Even Murray Rothbard, the founder of American "libertarianism" and coiner of the term anarchocapitalism admitted as much. He concluded that his movement (which included the likes of Ron Paul) was not an anarchist movement. "Therefore we must conclude we are not anarchists." said he. The Koch Brothers donate heavily toward the Tea Party, the GOP and "The Libertarian Party".

When private property becomes so enshrined into the world view of many, the word property becomes synonymous with liberty. This is because the stratification of socioeconomic classes becomes so distinct and defined and polarized that there is only one (ever shrinking in size) class in which people can truly have liberty. The ones with property. The rest will have nothing but their labor and their children. There will be a hereditary elite and a dearth of socioeconomic upward mobility.

That is feudalism. The purest of these people are ultra right wing nuts who call themselves Voluntaryist, because they know anarchocapitalism is an oxymoron. They have a pretty fantasy they use to sell their views to well meaning people. Some of them are quite aware how dystopian their vile and disgusting views are. They cling to philosophers like Ayn Rand, who sought to redefine altruism as evil and Murray Rothbard who sought to redefine egalitarianism as a revolt against nature. At the very heart of thier beliefs is a doctrine known as Social Darwinism.

They will try to tell us that the hereditary powerful billionaires of the earth should have every right to employ private armies, alleviating the need for a state. The rhetoric is anti-statist and therefore appeals to anarchists. They require the removal of the state in order to enforce a new, completely tyrannical kind of hierarchy.

Such hereditary hierarchy is as absurd (paraphrasing Thomas Paine) as hereditary mathematicians.

Flame away ancaps.
I thought Tea Baggers were liberal people?.......
 
Top