My first class with the golden teacher

[polyarcturus]

You WANT it to grow through the casing, to just below the surface - all long before you have altered your co2 content or applied light or changed your temperature.

oh, okay i think i understand better now. i will have to give your method a go perhaps ive been doing it wrong.

 

[canndo]

I have wondered how you and a few others kept mistaking casing or misusing the term. I posted several large sections on casing and why one should case and how to do it, I can't find it now, I've got to go but it makes a hell of a difference, regardless of what some may say, and I can back it up with numbers and pictures.

 

[Javadog]

Well, you've got some great flushes there, to be sure.

I will leave the topic on this: your opinions on this matter are just that,
your opinions....and clearly they work well for you. There are other,
most excellent, cultivators who swear that casing layers are not needed
for cubes, and their yields equal yours.

For my part, I have never gone for huge harvests, and so cannot say
definitively where I fall on the matter. I have done both cased and uncased
with success.

I do suggest that the OP use one because it makes the effort more forgiving, IMO.

I tend to avoid definitive statements regarding this hobby, but then
my approach seems to be continually trying new species, and so I am
always lost. :0)

I am getting my first G. lutefolius pins and purpuratus is right after it. (only
got juronus and dilepsis before). I even have the unusual-active C. smithii
on agar, and the bleeding Pluteus as well.

Check out this furry Volvariella....it busts out of an egg like the Alien!


So, good luck OP, I am sure that you will rock!

JD

 

[polyarcturus]

I have wondered how you and a few others kept mistaking casing or misusing the term. I posted several large sections on casing and why one should case and how to do it, I can't find it now, I've got to go but it makes a hell of a difference, regardless of what some may say, and I can back it up with numbers and pictures.

i remember reading it. i remember reading several styles in casing afterwards too lol. but ill give a go, how long before exposing to whole thing to fruiting conditions after casing? 3-4 days?(reason i case so late is i was always told (elsewhere) you sont want your casing to grow mycelium)

 

[Thundercat]

Well, you've got some great flushes there, to be sure.

I will leave the topic on this: your opinions on this matter are just that,
your opinions....and clearly they work well for you. There are other,
most excellent, cultivators who swear that casing layers are not needed
for cubes, and their yields equal yours.

For my part, I have never gone for huge harvests, and so cannot say
definitively where I fall on the matter. I have done both cased and uncased
with success.

I do suggest that the OP use one because it makes the effort more forgiving, IMO.

I tend to avoid definitive statements regarding this hobby, but then
my approach seems to be continually trying new species, and so I am
always lost. :0)

I am getting my first G. lutefolius pins and purpuratus is right after it. (only
got juronus and dilepsis before). I even have the unusual-active C. smithii
on agar, and the bleeding Pluteus as well.

Check out this furry Volvariella....it busts out of an egg like the Alien!
View attachment 2569993

So, good luck OP, I am sure that you will rock!

JD

Those are beautiful mushrooms man, I can only imagine how cool it is to watch them burst out!

 

[Javadog]

They are freaky....the funny thing is that this genus is one of
the most popular in the orient.

We have all had a "straw mushroom" as part of some dish.

They are actually eaten in the "egg stage". I was wanting to
take spore prints. You can see the pink spores on the far
side of that tub.

I like the crazier stuff.

This is one of my favorites, Gymnopilus dilepsis:


We have to watch fungi like we watch our plants. They tell us what they need.
It just takes time to learn their language (I am still working on this ;0)

Take care,

JD

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

Do some searches on this site and you will find all sorts of tidbits of info (from me), and a few pictures that should establish my street creds.

but I don't mind spending the time in order to turn folks away from the dark side - PF tek. As I said, the man who invented it was a genius at marketing and he made millions, he died last year I believe from hepititis. Those of us who had been growing for decades before he came along appreciated his work and we all quitely spanked ourselves for not having thought of the whole scheme before he did. Of course, in the end, he got a case of hubris, began sending instructions on the use of his spore syringes with each purchase and that made him an accomplice in the manufacture of a controled substance - and he went away for a few years and his empire crumbled but his PF Tek lived on. None of my compatriots thought much of that until we began to see what damage it does to people's notions of the organism and so you see my campaign.

The only reason to employ the PF tek is if you don't have a pressure cooker - but as you know, pressure cookers are cheap and everyone who does mycological work should have one just as anyone who does hydroponics should have a good PH meter.


My first suggestion is that you explore popcorn as a substrate - popcorn is forgiving where rye berries - the preference of all mycologists, is not. Too much water and you get mush, too little and you get poor growing characteristics, there are ways to help yourself with gypsum but it should not be necessary.


Simply boil your popcorn until you see just a few kernels with split coatings, then drain, rinse, rinse again and let the kernels dry - over night would be best.

Really, that is all you have to worry about. Use full quarts if your pressure cooker can manage them but if not, whatever fits. Sterilize your corn for 45 minutes to an hour at 15 lbs. When it cools, innoculate - if you want to use your holes, and your innoculation ports and your tyvek fine, but it really isn't necessary.

you see, mycelium uses little oxygen and loves CO2 - it creates it's own and thrives in atmospheres with CO2 in the tens of thousands of parts per million, so you can colonize a half quart of corn without ever needing to let it breath. I have done it thousands of times (literaly).


but fine, so you are unsure and you give your corn some fresh air. You will innoculate your corn with any amount of spore solution you wish - ANY amount is enough - 1 cc if you can manage it, half a cc is even better. Let your corn sit until you see white bits growing - if you can manage a room with 84 - 86 degrees then you will see white after about three days. Wait a day after you see your mycelium being and then shake that jar - that is the point. Wait until you see white again - maybe two or three days, wait another day and shake again - it usually only takes another two days, maybe three until you see full colonization. If not, shake it up one last time. I have seen full colonization in 8 or 9 days. PF tek? weeks.

Now, give your corn an extra day or so, you don't have to worry about internal colonization because you shook each individual kernel, remember? get yourself some sort of flat container, one that will allow you to pour your grain into it to a depth of no less than one inch, preverably two or three, you can use more than one jar if you wish. Put that in your fruiting chamber for a few days, you want the mycelium to "knit" or become like one great hunk of cheese with embeded kernels of corn. Your fruiting chamber has the humidity you want for this to occur - never mind the particulars now, I will tell you all about them later.


After you see healthy mycelium like pure white cotton growing all over every part of your grain in that bed, case it. Casing is the act of putting half an inch or more depending upon the depth of your substrate, of reduced nutrient material on the top of your high nutrient substrate. You are signaling to the mycelium that it is running out of food. do your research on casing, there are many good methods - I generaly use 80/20 - non or low nutrient to higher nutrient, in this case, sifted coir 20 percent, coarse vermiculite 80 percent - bring it to field moisture content - where you can squeeze a handful and a few drops of water run out of your hand.

Pasteurize this stuff, 160 - 180 for an hour or so, let it cool and spread a layer on your substrate. Let that colonize and then the fun begins.


The primary fruiting trigger is light. So you want to incubate your corn in darkness but that is not essential as your mycelium is too young to fruit widely, after you have cased however, you want that thing in the DARK. Even a fraction of a second of light will trigger fruiting - but don't worry about it your first time.



The next trigger is CO2 - high CO2 for colonization, low Co2 for fruiting - this is why you will see fresh air exchanges talked about over and over again - the point is that you want low Co2, high humidity in your fruiting chamber. The third trigger is temperature. You don't have to worry about temperature with this species because it will fruit eventualy anyway.


Once you have fully colonized substrate, have signaled the mycelium that it is running out of nutrient, given it light, and reduced yor co2 concentration you will see pins in a few days. All you have to do is maintain conditions and you cannot fail.


Next time I will tell you about PH.

I hope I didn't make this sound harder than it is - it is the concepts that are important, once you have them down you can grow all sorts of mushrooms and you can grow cubensis on just about anything.

I perfected a one container method that works quite well - it is all a mater of timing.


About live culture? i you are looking for monocultures - the path toward truely huge yields then you want to get good at live culture and cloning otherwise, don't bother.


However, if you are looking to work with the entire range of mycological methods - think about using agar - you will have a glove box after all.

i understand you have talked about casing several times. I am just confused because when i mentioned a layer above you told me to mix it in so the mycelium can grow side to side and not up...so thats what i did.

i think i have a good idea of what to do just not 100%, either way ill get something out of this im sure. i will likely do a side by side of cased vs uncased....all same exact conditions..this way we can see my results on the what seems to be verry controversial topic.

 

[Javadog]

What sort of fruiting chamber are you using?

Are you doing monotubs? (or a greenhouse or SGFC?)

I apologize, as I skimmed the thread.

Good luck,

JD

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

im just using lasagna pans....lines with a plastic bag.

not sure if there going to work but will concor that feat when i get there...out of funding right now so buying more stuff is not a option.

i did do a bulk sub in a clear tote that im not really sure how im going to set up....i wish i had known a bit more when i went shoppung i would have bought smaller lasagna pans with no lids and a couple more totes...next time i suppose.

 

[polyarcturus]

well if its a clear tub set it in their living room and tell them to mist it 2x a day if they want any

 

[Javadog]

Polyarcturus is correct, if I am reading you correctly.

A "lasagna pan" will work fine....but you will typically place the tray
in a greenhouse or a ShotGun Fruiting Chamber to fruit.

In lieu of anything else to use, then you can just drop the tray onto
the bottom of a tub and treat it as a "monotub".

This is what your "bulk sub in a clear tote" sounds like.

What mushrooms need to fruits is "fresh air exchanges" (FAE). In a monotub
this is provided by holes that you cut in the tub. Usually there are 4-8 holes,
a few inches wide, but this number, size and placement varies widely among
cultivators.

So, if you cut holes in your tote, lightly fill them with polyfil, and mist and
fan them regularly, then you should be able to get a harvest.

There is more to this, as monos require patience and there is a learning curve,
but they are probably the easiest way to get bulk. (I prefer filter patch sack
blocks in my GH or my outside shade-box)

Take care,

JD

P.S. FWIW, this is Ohmatic's classic monotub thread.

 

[polyarcturus]

he has multiple different things going on java dog.

he has the the clear tub which is a bulk mono tubs.

and he has the lasagna pans which are going into a fruiting chamber.

which as you said could be dropped into a tote and also fruited in the living room. the term "shotgun fruiting chamber" is just too long, and too specific.

simply call it the fruiting chamber(FC), and with this you can build and fruit in it how ever you want. without trying to describe it with words, because a rack with jars fruiting on top in vitro could be called a fruiting chamber.

im pretty sure his lasagna pans will end up inside another tote, greenhouse type setup, or a shotgun setup.

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

the clear tote has straw and popcorn directly in the bottom of the tote.

the lasagna pans have a cover and i was going to try and fruit them right in the pan itself..i may have to get a few more totes to make SGFC's going to see how it all works out for right now. worse case i flop out and have to use the 11 jars i just started yesterday..

anyways gotta go check on them now bbl!! thanks for all the guidance!!

 

[Thundercat]

How I set up my lasagna pans.
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/thundercat_420/Picture016.jpg

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

How I set up my lasagna pans.
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/thundercat_420/Picture016.jpg

yeah i realize thats the ideal way to do it...and i would love to be able to have 2 more totes but i dont have them and im piss poor right now lol. i guess i could head to wal mart and check out totes to see if there are any i can afford....really i only need 2 since i only have 4 pans with straw. i have one pan that has the popcorn sub mixed in with vermiculite that i fear isnt going to do anything.

ill keep you guys updated.

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

ok managed to get two more clear plastic totes....will be enough room in them for 2 pans. will put perilite on the bottom for humidity and drill some 1/2 inch holes around the sides and a couple 1 inch holes on the top...then going to place solo cups on top of the holes on the lid with holes drilled in the side.this should remove chances of airbornes falling into the top holes..

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

also got some miracle grow seed starter which is 90% peat...all i could find so gonna have to work with it. it does have some MG nutes in it though....what kind of role will these play in this?


my thoughts...

Cando said cubenis are primary decomposers....so dont they decomp what they need for nutrient instead of using availables like ferts??

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

ok also picture this?


i have a whole bale of straw...what if....

I took an entire room and sterilized it, then plasticed it. shredded the hay with a wood chipper...

then spread the hay on the floor of the room. inoculated it with a jar of colonized corn and left it in the dark for a month...mist it (theres a window in the room) and open the window.....

funny thing is this may actully be an option

what you guys think?

new meaning for bulk sub....maybe i can make the guiness book HAHA

 

[aCiDjEsUs]

Dude that's going to be some Room!! Shroomies on the floor! YummY haha

 

[Javadog]

Cubensis will eat most anything. I have used compost, aged manure,
straw, and even sawdust based subs.

Straw can rock and resists contams better than some other subs.

One thing: you referred to using perlite and 1/2" and 1" holes.

This sounds like you are combining a SGFC with a monotub here.

Monos usually have polyfil lightly stuffed into some or all of the holes,
where SGFC use 1/4" holes, 2" inches apart, on all six sides (inc the lid),
and have 4" of moistened perlite placed onto the bottom.

FWIW, I would recommend making a SGFC, if your tub has the "head-room"
to allow the perlite, the height of your sub, and the hoped for height of the fruits.
SGFCs can maintain a workable humidity level for several weeks at least.

LOL, but then again, I usually do not recommend new cultivators skip over
BRF cakes for grains. A BRF cake, rolled in verm, can take a ton of abuse
and still produce. This approach is smart for people starting.

Good luck,

JD