Advanced Nutrients - pH perfect Sensi Grow: does it contain iron and other micros???

[bigbabyjesus]

I'm about 6 weeks into my first DWC with seven plants vegging. First couple of weeks, I used Fox Farm nutes and had wild pH swings (going up to 7.5 or so on a daily basis in my 5-gallon buckets). So, I researched the nutes out there and changed to Advanced Nutrients and am using the Sensi Grow pH Perfect.

This is only my second grow (first grow was several years back in soil), so I still consider myself a novice and can't tell too much from looking at the plants what deficiencies they might have. However I thought I had noticed a potential iron deficiency.

After this I checked the label on my pH Perfect Sensi Grow. The info is below (taken from AN's website). Compared to what they show for AN's regular (non-pH-Perfect) Sensi products, it appears the pH Perfect Products are missing iron and manganese. Many other micronutrients appear to be missing, too. Am I not looking at this properly?

I found some other related posts from forums online (someone claims they received info from High Times about this problem with iron being cut out of the pH formula), but no one else seems to be referencing this huge issue with AN's nutes. The Connoisseur pH perfect also is missing these same micros. Thinking of switching to Dyna-Gro Grow considering how many people claim that AN is a lot of BS and snake oil. Certainly there seem to be issues with AN dropping key ingredients from products in an attempt to reduce costs (I'm guessing), and lots of frustrated customers.

AN's website is a big turn-off, too. OMG have you ever read the info on their products? It's like a propaganda manifesto. Ridiculous.

pH Perfect Sensi Grow A

pH Perfect Sensi Grow B

 

[Malevolence]

DG is ph stable, contains all the micro nutes weed needs, and is a lot cheaper.

I've never tried AN so I can't say which is better, but I use DG and am happy with the results.

 

[iSmokealottaweed]

I use AN with great results. Are you running their micro nutes along with their base line or just running that base?

 

[beuffer420]

Go to google type in advanced nutrients Europe, go to advancedipedia. I called the rep from our work to ask the same question he assured me there is all your plant will need in there line. The main thing with the ph perfect is stick to the directions and make sure your getting good runoff. I feed full strength in coco no prob just the run off must be there.

I consider any quarrel with nutes like a person who doesn't like Chevy but likes ford. Really until you've ran a line and ran it correctly u really can't say much as to weather you had good results. There's a lot of factors to consider when someone says they don't like a line.

Years ago when I started using AN I thought the same as I had read until I learned how to use the line correctly. Now I recommend it to the new grower even, because of its ease of use.

 

[beuffer420]

Application Rate: 4 mL / L
Based on standalone light feeding


NPK: 6.2-2.2-5.7
Web Description:
Sensi Grow has been specifically designed for the high-value specialty plants you grow. Sensi Grow field testing helped us create a powerful product that gives consistently heavy yields. Our research found detailed data revealing specific ratios and types of nutrients that should be used during vegetative phase. Plants in vegetative phase use more calcium, more iron, and more zinc than plants in bloom do. Other companies only vary the ratios of N-P-K to distinguish their Grow products from their Bloom products, but we created a precise N-P-K and micronutrient profile that serves vegetative phase plants far better than our competitors' Grow formulas. Sensi Grow contains special components not found in other two-part ferts. Our research and development team found that Sensi Grow A & B wildly outperforms two-part formulas made by other manufacturers. You'll find that we outperform them too- backed by our 100% performance guarantee.


Price and Weight based on individual Part A or Part B
Ingredients
Boron Proteinate
Calcium Nitrate
Cobalt EDTA
Cobalt Proteinate
Copper EDTA
Copper Proteinate
Di-Potassium Phosphate
Iron DPTA
Iron EDDHA
Iron EDTA
Iron Proteinate
Magnesium Nitrate
Magnesium Phosphate
Magnesium Sulfate
Manganese EDTA
Manganese Proteinate
Molybdenum EDTA
Molybdenum Proteinate
Mono Ammonium Phosphate
Mono Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Carbonate
Potassium Nitrate
Potassium Sulfate
Urea
Zinc EDTA
Zinc Proteinate

This is off the Europe site and with AN claiming their nutes are the same worldwide I'd say it has to be somewhat accurate.

 

[Fazer1rlg]

Okay I've tried the advanced nutrients sensi a and b in soil and dwc. In soil it straight up sucks. It burns the shit out of all my plants no matter what strain. And it didn't provide enough nutrients to those plants while still burning the shit out of the leaves. I would have deficiencies but also signs of over feeding. My ph and everything was good so I don't understand how my plants were deficient. So I said fuck those nutrients they are worthless in soil. I grabbed some blood meal, bat guano, and kelp top dressed those same plants that were showing N-P-K deficiencies now they are springing up like no other. I'm stickin with organic nutrients in soil.

On the other hand, sensi a and b works pretty good in a dwc system. I have fast growth and haven't had deficiencies I have been using the same amount of food on my dwc plants as I did to the soil plants so that's another thing that confuses me about these nutrients. My next round of dwc I'm going wit house & garden aqua flakes or general hydro .

 

[bigbabyjesus]

To answer the question from iSmokealottaweed about what other additives I'm using, I've been using the AN Voodoo Juice and B-52 (all of the recommended AN nutes for vegging) as well as some Great White. The AN recommended feeding schedule gives me around 1000PPM, which seems high, and I've begun to see some nute burn, but at low doses on young seedlings (1/4 - 1/2 strength I've had some major deficiencies.

Check out the AN site info at http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/products/sensi_grow/sensi_grow_product_information.php. It seems the PH perfect Sensi Grow has different ingredients. If the pH perfect version had iron, for instance, why wouldn't they say?

One thing that is mentioned, and I think may be unusual, is AN's use of urea as a nitrogen source. I'm beginning to see the slime people have claimed this urea causes. On reservoir changes, this last go around I found a good deal of brown slime on the air tube, for instance (this week I was not using Great White, which might have helped to keep this in check).

Dyna-Grow's ProTekt arrived a few days ago and I used it in the last reservoir change. The Dyna-Gro lineup of nutes is so much simpler and affordable than AN, that I've got to try it, especially since a lot of people are just using the Grow formula for the whole grow (flowering, too). I could get my nutes down to: DN Grow, Protekt, Dutch Master Gold Zone (should arrive soon), and bennies for good measure...

 

[bigbabyjesus]

One last thing is that on the pH perfect nutes, they don't seem to work too well at low doses (1/2 strength, for example, may need pH adjusted in as little as 1-2 days).

 

[bigbabyjesus]

Thanks, Beuffer420, for the info on AN's Euro site. Much better organized site and info compared to the laughable US site. However I don't know if AN really has all these ingredients and nutrients in the product I bought.

AN was found in Oregon to have mislabeled the content of Big Bud (the state took sample of only certain products, and this was the only AN one they looked at). I looked at the report yesterday at http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydro-hype/39-advanced-nutrients-the-med-deception.html. AN was an offender by a HUGE margin. Check out the amount of magnesium found in Big Bud - 0.01% - versus the claimed/label amount of 7.0%. I don't care if AN's site has a 10,000 word seemingly never-ending page for each product boasting of all the PHD's it took to get a product right, or all the crazy miraculous discoveries their fictional characters have made as they stumble onto this additive or that additive -- with no quality control, it's like pissing in the wind. I'm no fan-boy for any nute company, but every day I seem to have more and more buyer's remorse for all the AN shit I bought in a panic without doing my homework...

Dyna-Gro, in this same Oregon study, had the exact ratios as they claimed in their products. I've already shelled out around $150 on AN nutes, but hell, I might just spend $20-30 on some DG to make sure I get a good harvest.

 

[beuffer420]

Labeling is a tricky thing. They only have so much room on the bottle to print.

 

[beuffer420]

One last thing is that on the pH perfect nutes, they don't seem to work too well at low doses (1/2 strength, for example, may need pH adjusted in as little as 1-2 days).

See that's the thing the ph perfect is meant to be ran how their instructions say at full strength. You do not need to adjust ph or worry about ppms. If you try to adjust you won't get far and the amount of down or up you would need to even get it to change ph would be ridiculous. The lines based on full strength with a good amount of runoff.

1ml 2ml 4mls week 1 is 1ml, week 2 2mls weeks 3 and above full strength. Once in flower just keep full strength good runoff and you'll be off and running.

Ive ran AN for over four years now and love everyday I look in my garden.

im no groupie either just have good results. However I am doing a side by side with greenhouse seeds powder feed and results are very similar and the powder is a fraction of the cost opposed to AN.

 

[patlpp]

One thing that is mentioned, and I think may be unusual, is AN's use of urea as a nitrogen source. I'm beginning to see the slime people have claimed this urea causes. On reservoir changes, this last go around I found a good deal of brown slime on the air tube, for instance (this week I was not using Great White, which might have helped to keep this in check).

.

What are you talking about? How can Urea do that and how can Great White "keep it in check" when Great White is the same product as Voodoo Juice? Better look somewhere else for the slime issue like too high temps. Instead of feeding with redundant products, concentrate on water temps and get an enzyme product. It's always the nutes, not the grower - jeez

 

[beuffer420]

http://i.imgur.com/PEvgYTN.jpg

heres a clone of Pineapple Express from g13 labs week 2 of veg from root. So it's at 2 Mls/ liter a and b and I'm giving it 5 Mls per gallon of b52 just to make sure she can handle it. This Friday ill transplant and go to five gallon bucket at full strength. So ill be giving her 14 Mls per gallon of the bases and 7 Mls per gallon of b52

 

[bigbabyjesus]

Well, after a lot of suggestions on a lot of sites about AN's tech support, I called them today to ask the question. They said that due to labeling requirements, they can't list every nutrient, which seems a little odd to me since I thought this was only an issue in certain states (i.e. Oregon). I wasn't really prepared for the call, and I forgot to ask why the micros (i.e. iron) are included on the NON-PH-PERFECT version of Sensi Grow. I might call back tomorrow. Anyway, dude said there is no more complete nutrient than AN's Sensi Grow and Connoisseur (pH perfect version). I'd recommend calling AN (rather than emailing) - I emailed a few days back and haven't heard anything, but when I called I got an answer right away. The guy seemed pretty nice, but real salesman like.

Truth is, I am seeing what I think now is a potential potassium deficiency (yellow leaf tips that don't appear to be due to nute burn). Aside from this issue, however, growth has really improved with full-strength Sensi, getting back to using Great White (after taking a week off), and getting some real GH pH down (I ran out after spilling my shit all over the bathroom a few weeks ago and had rather pathetically tried to use grocery store lemon juice from a bottle).

Turns out lemon juice lowers the pH for about 10-15 minutes. I didn't check pH levels for about 3 days (why not when the nutes are pH perfect, right?), and found my shit to be at around 7-7.5. This lemon juice could have been responsible for the slime, too. I've heard a lot about slime from vinegar. Seems the household pH downs can be problematic in more than one way. With lemon juice, you have to use about a teaspoon per gallon or something crazy like that... I had pipe dreams of a lemony smoke, but no more of that.

On more tangent I switched from a 42-inch parabolic/umbrella reflector (vertical bulb placement with vents on both sides) I got from Growace.com. This damn thing was so big and cumbersome. I did poor research on reflectors and bought it in a hurry, even though the deal was a steal for the system. In a room barley 48" wide, I would not recommend this type of reflector. I broke down and bought an Adjust-a-Wing (medium) with the light spreader. In addition to the better light spread (grow room looks massively brighter now), it is so MUCH OF AN IMPROVEMENT with heat control. With the umbrella, the grow room (well ventilated) was about 5-10 degrees (F) hotter than my house's ambient temps. On sunny days with temps outside at 55-60, it was getting in the high 70's under the umbrella, 24" from the reflector.

The Adjust-A-Wing is about 16" from the canopy and I'm seeing about a 3 degree temperature increase over ambient temps. Pretty badass. And I'm not bumping my head all the time. It was either the Adjust-A-Wing, or the Xtrasun II Wing (based on the reflector reviews from Greners). I had some extra $$$ and have learned how a reflector is not all about lumen displacement, but also heat control/dissipation, and footprint. So I went with the hype (I'm a sucker it seems) with the expensive Adjust-A-Wing and AN.

Things looking good. Thinking of starting a grow journal. I'm about 6-7 weeks in from the first seeds germinating. I had a lot of trouble germinating seeds that were 7 years old and so ended up with 1 seed sprouting, then 2 more about a week later, then two more a week or so after that, and the last two about 3 weeks after the first sprout. So I've got a big range of vegging plants. Three monsters are requiring about a half gallon of water each day. The three smallest are 1/4 their size and hardly drink at all... Going to go about 2 more weeks before flipping the switch to 12/12.

 

[bigbabyjesus]

Random question for all you DWC bucket folks, do you prune the fan leaves that get in the way of you pulling off the lid to the bucket? These are constantly getting in my way and some have gotten cut off accidentally when I've put the lid on them and snapped it back onto the bucket.

 

[bigbabyjesus]

What are you talking about? How can Urea do that and how can Great White "keep it in check" when Great White is the same product as Voodoo Juice? Better look somewhere else for the slime issue like too high temps. Instead of feeding with redundant products, concentrate on water temps and get an enzyme product. It's always the nutes, not the grower - jeez

Probably right there with my use of lemon juice as a pH down I'm realizing, but urea does leave a residue according to a lot of people. I'm thinking the residue could promote bacteria/mold growth that could be out-colonized by Great White, which is a related but totally different product than Voodoo, don't you think?

 

[patlpp]

Probably right there with my use of lemon juice as a pH down I'm realizing, but urea does leave a residue according to a lot of people. I'm thinking the residue could promote bacteria/mold growth that could be out-colonized by Great White, which is a related but totally different product than Voodoo, don't you think?

Nope, GW and Voodoo are the same. GW just doesn't have maybe 3 strains that AN Voodoo has. And unless you apply it to a retentive medium (like dirt or coco/pro-mix) both products are not very efficient. I can't see how urea leaves a residue but maybe if there is no urease to process the urea maybe it's possible since raw urea is organic. Sorry to come off like a dick but my impression is you are coming up with conclusions without enough research. The root problem is I drink too much sometimes when I sound off.

Edit: Urease can be introduced into a DWC system by applying something like Botanicare original compost solution. Just a little. A clean , all chem environment might be missing the required bacteria which I'm not sure GW or VooDoo can provide. Not a chemist or Biologist but way back I bought some AN and asked a famous Guru Fatman and he suggested that. I have had no nitrogen issues since taking his advice. Urea is actually a fine N source if the environment supports it.

 

[beuffer420]

The lemon juice will cause probs and an unsteady ph. I know this pry won't sound good but advanced nutes ph down and up is strong as hell and stabilizes the water quick maybe give it a try?? Not trying to sound a AN rep or anything but before I used the ph perfect I used their up and down with good successsuccess

 

[bigbabyjesus]

I heard AN pH down is pretty concentrated, but so is GH for my purposes, and it seems pretty stable and has a good shelf life, too (I had some from 7 years ago that still worked just as good before I spilled it all over my bathroom accidentally during res changes). AN's cost was about double at my nearest (emergency) hydro store. For GH, I find that about 1/3 tsp will lower pH from around 7.2 to 5.8 in one gallon. Not a whole lot of ppm to be worried about.

 

[beuffer420]

True that I have bottles of both brands. The advanced ph down works great for tap water and the gh is perfect for RO water. I'm giving green house seeds powder feed a try so they call for tap water. I guess it's what works in your garden really seeing as no two are alike.