Is this true?

[echelon1k1]

war is not your kids roughousing in a department store.

saddaam forced us to go to war, then by refusing to abide by the cease-fire forced us to do it again.

ideally his ass should have been beaten to the curb the first time, he should yhave been caught, trtied in kuwait, hanged, and the "country" of iraq should have been carved into a nation for the Kurds, and a nation for the chaldeans, and then, after recouping the costs of having to kick their ass we should have left with a wagged finger and an exhortation to "Not make us come back again"

thats the only way war works, otherwise it's just the US going broke and sacrificing our men for idiotic feelgood rhetoric and bullshit.

if it's not worth stomping that ass flat, it's not worth going to war.

in the end both gulf wars had legitimate and pressing reasons for war, but the fools in washington love to gild the lilly, and they lack the balls to prosecute war in a manner that doesnt pauper the US taxpayer.

they made most of the same mistakes they made in vietnam,, except for the "proportionality" blunder. refusing to engage in useless touchy-feelie "proportionality" is the only thing that saved iraq 2, the return of overwhelming force, from turning into vietnam 2 electric boogaloo.

edit: not disbanding the military and police? those were the assholes who caused the shit in the first place. they had to go.

the baathists were just fascists in giant 70's pornstar moustachioes. saddam's army and "security forces" were a huge part of the problem. they should have been rounded up and penned in the desert while the country was pacified like we pacified germany, then the bastards should have been turned over to the new elected government. whatever government the people of iraq voted for, with no vote rigging, no propping up one dickhead over another, and no interest in the outcome save that the count is correct and the majority rules. if they want a theocracy they will have one whether we like it or not, unless we turn that fucking kitty litterbox into a colony and run it from washington.

The US could of got rid of him via a CIA backed internal coup in '88 or '89. At the last minute DC pulled the plug and said "if you go it you go it alone", Saddam found out and executed those involved. Both sides screwed the pooch with Iraq, so don't buy GWB line that Saddam forced the US' hand. Shit intelligence and the willingness of dingbats to just go with the flow led the US and her allies into Iraq. Funnily enough invading Iraq was already tabled on September 11th 2001, even though Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

You went in and effectively created a Shi'ite republic that has empowered Iran. Now sectarian violence is tearing the place apart in the hope it will spill over to iranian borders.

 

[Carthoris]

I am a smart person. I am a determined person. All my neighbors have firearms and each time I try to make one for myself they turn my water off or my electricity and they tell me I can't have a firearm. I know if I were to lay my hands on a firearm they would no longer be able to extort me as they are doing now.


Does anyone actually not believe that eventually I will indeed get a firearm and do you not believe that when I do I will be so pissed off that I will at the very least threaten everyone in the neighborhood rather than simply allow myself to be accepted in the local gun owners club? - that same club that didn't want me to be a member in the first place ?


And sure, I told Fred down the street that he deserved to die. So what?

Fred is a fuck face anyway.

 

[Carthoris]

It is pretty disturbing to watch so many of you justifying the murder of hundreds of thousands of women and children and the decades of radiation related issues. This is a war crime, just as the deaths of millions of Germans after WW2 at the hands of the allies were. You can justify it however you want, but it is a war crime and wrong. Our only real justification was "What the fuck you gonna do about?" Hitler would of used the bombs the same way, would he have been justified?

 

[Dr Kynes]

The US could of got rid of him via a CIA backed internal coup in '88 or '89. At the last minute DC pulled the plug and said "if you go it you go it alone", Saddam found out and executed those involved. Both sides screwed the pooch with Iraq, so don't buy GWB line that Saddam forced the US' hand. Shit intelligence and the willingness of dingbats to just go with the flow led the US and her allies into Iraq. Funnily enough invading Iraq was already tabled on September 11th 2001, even though Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

You went in and effectively created a Shi'ite republic that has empowered Iran. Now sectarian violence is tearing the place apart in the hope it will spill over to iranian borders.

saddam was a fuckhead. but he was used as a tool by shortsigfhted fools to try and contain iran. this has NOTHING to do with his invasion of kuwait, nor his refusal to abide by the cease fire agreement that he signed to keep himself in power.

the failure of the saddam regime to abide by the cease fiore agreement for even ONE DAY over the ensuing 10 years was the direct and real cause of the second invasion all the other bullshit about suspected WMD's (which he did have. check your wikileaks for more info) his nuclear program (which he abandoned shortly after hans blix began his pointless half assed inspections, which were effective only in making a nuclear program impossible) or the chemical program (which he was attempting to continue with limited resiults, check your wikileaks for more info) or the "yellow cake" silliness, was just gilding the lilly.

all that shit was piled on top of the real reason to help gain a consensus for a second invasion after 8 years of clinton waffling and limp wristed acquiescence to the guy who LOST.

when these silly specious excuses for a second invasion started unraveling (even the ones which turned out to be true, but were hidden for political reasons like the chemical stockpiles, chemical plants and hidden missiles, jets and warheads...) this gave the impression that the war was unjustified, when in fact all the EXTRA bullshit excuses were tertiary to the real reason: the terms of the cease fire must be abided by, or the war is back on.

if you are under the impression that the terms of a cease fire are merely suggestions, then you are sorely mistaken. clinton and the UN waffled like pussies and emboldened hussein. hans blix was prevented from inspecting, so nobody could be sure what he might or might not have found (after saddam's defeat a lot of shit was found indeed, jets, missiles, warheads, shells filled with chemical weapons etc...)and saddam's forces never stopped shooting at coalition forces, not even for a single day.

shit should have been back on the day after the ceasefire was signed really.

 

[cannabineer]

That was Red1966 you quoted...

Does it really surprise you that he's not exactly "fond" of Persian and Japanese people?

Let's just say I don't buy into the Stormfront and family nastiness rumors. Red isn't a favorite poster but i see no reason not to extend him the ordinary courtesies. cn

 

[Carthoris]

Let's just say I don't buy into the Stormfront and family nastiness rumors. Red isn't a favorite poster but i see no reason not to extend him the ordinary courtesies. cn

Given that Buck is the source, it isn't that easy to dismiss. That being said, I was looking for information on a mp40 build I am doing, and there was some information on stormfront if you could read between the kill niggers and jews are after us posts.

 

[cannabineer]

Given that Buck is the source, it isn't that easy to dismiss.

I am out of sig space. cn

 

[st0wandgrow]

war is not your kids roughousing in a department store.

saddaam forced us to go to war, then by refusing to abide by the cease-fire forced us to do it again.

ideally his ass should have been beaten to the curb the first time, he should yhave been caught, trtied in kuwait, hanged, and the "country" of iraq should have been carved into a nation for the Kurds, and a nation for the chaldeans, and then, after recouping the costs of having to kick their ass we should have left with a wagged finger and an exhortation to "Not make us come back again"

thats the only way war works, otherwise it's just the US going broke and sacrificing our men for idiotic feelgood rhetoric and bullshit.

if it's not worth stomping that ass flat, it's not worth going to war.

in the end both gulf wars had legitimate and pressing reasons for war, but the fools in washington love to gild the lilly, and they lack the balls to prosecute war in a manner that doesnt pauper the US taxpayer.

they made most of the same mistakes they made in vietnam,, except for the "proportionality" blunder. refusing to engage in useless touchy-feelie "proportionality" is the only thing that saved iraq 2, the return of overwhelming force, from turning into vietnam 2 electric boogaloo.

edit: not disbanding the military and police? those were the assholes who caused the shit in the first place. they had to go.

the baathists were just fascists in giant 70's pornstar moustachioes. saddam's army and "security forces" were a huge part of the problem. they should have been rounded up and penned in the desert while the country was pacified like we pacified germany, then the bastards should have been turned over to the new elected government. whatever government the people of iraq voted for, with no vote rigging, no propping up one dickhead over another, and no interest in the outcome save that the count is correct and the majority rules. if they want a theocracy they will have one whether we like it or not, unless we turn that fucking kitty litterbox into a colony and run it from washington.

"saddaam forced us to go to war, then by refusing to abide by the cease-fire forced us to do it again."

Uh huh. In the same way that a girl wearing a short skirt is asking to be raped.

What a retarded comment.

 

[Harrekin]

Let's just say I don't buy into the Stormfront and family nastiness rumors. Red isn't a favorite poster but i see no reason not to extend him the ordinary courtesies. cn

Fair enough, but I did read some of his posts from here over there, and they definately weren't out of character with the place...

Fucking Nazis...

 

[cannabineer]

Fair enough, but I did read some of his posts from here over there, and they definately weren't out of character with the place...

Fucking Nazis...

I consider it not beyond belief that someone other than he is doing that to him. cn

 

[Carthoris]

I am out of sig space. cn

You know, when I wrote that, I noticed I had written it incorrectly, but it made me smile, so I left it.

 

[Dr Kynes]

"saddaam forced us to go to war, then by refusing to abide by the cease-fire forced us to do it again."

Uh huh. In the same way that a girl wearing a short skirt is asking to be raped.

What a retarded comment.

when saddam refused to abide by any part of the cease fire agreement he signed, and never actually stopped shooting (one of the keys to a successful cease fire) he abrogated the agreement. only bush 1's wimpiness and reluctance to finish the job, and clinton's preoccupation with fucking the american people over one at a time, and in groups prevented saddam from getting his ass stomped flat just days after the ceasefire was signed, and for the next ten years of appeasement waffling and failure.

i get it, the press tells you all this shit about how there were no WMD's in iraq (wmd's defined as active armed ready to deploy nuclear chemical or bilogical weapons) but in fact he had a SHITLOAD and we found it.

examine your wikileaks, it was covered up and kept secret so the sheep wouldnt panic when they found out that saddam had TONNES of mustard, vx and other shit, and we arent really sure where it all went. we found a lot, and the residue from more, but a shitload is still unaccounted for.

he had scud missiles ready to launch hidden in scrapyards. he had fighter jets hidden in the desert, he had mobile labs designed to make "industrial chemicals and medicine" in the back or tractor trailers so they would ba harder to find when hans blix showed up.

and so much more, i could go on, but you bore me.

 

[echelon1k1]

when saddam refused to abide by any part of the cease fire agreement he signed, and never actually stopped shooting (one of the keys to a successful cease fire) he abrogated the agreement. only bush 1's wimpiness and reluctance to finish the job, and clinton's preoccupation with fucking the american people over one at a time, and in groups prevented saddam from getting his ass stomped flat just days after the ceasefire was signed, and for the next ten years of appeasement waffling and failure.

i get it, the press tells you all this shit about how there were no WMD's in iraq (wmd's defined as active armed ready to deploy nuclear chemical or bilogical weapons) but in fact he had a SHITLOAD and we found it.

examine your wikileaks, it was covered up and kept secret so the sheep wouldnt panic when they found out that saddam had TONNES of mustard, vx and other shit, and we arent really sure where it all went. we found a lot, and the residue from more, but a shitload is still unaccounted for.

he had scud missiles ready to launch hidden in scrapyards. he had fighter jets hidden in the desert, he had mobile labs designed to make "industrial chemicals and medicine" in the back or tractor trailers so they would ba harder to find when hans blix showed up.

and so much more, i could go on, but you bore me.

80% of his gear didn't work and stockpiles had no working delivery systems, never mind the fact the US/UK sold it to him even as late as '92. And as i've told you before the agency could have facilitated his removal in 88/89 and avoided two wars.

Those "tractor trailers" were never confirmed and Dr. Kelly didn't live to tell his tale. Even powell won't stand by it anymore.

Curveball was an aptly named asset... Quagmire would have been a better one though...

 

[Dr Kynes]

80% of his gear didn't work and stockpiles had no working delivery systems, never mind the fact the US/UK sold it to him even as late as '92. And as i've told you before the agency could have facilitated his removal in 88/89 and avoided two wars.

Those "tractor trailers" were never confirmed and Dr. Kelly didn't live to tell his tale. Even powell won't stand by it anymore.

Curveball was an aptly named asset... Quagmire would have been a better one though...

and yet the onus was on him to PROVE he got rid of the shit, otherwise the cease fire was not on.

he didnt abide by a single provision of the cease fire.

as far as eliminating saddam in 88, woulda shoulda coulda.
the cia could have snuffed bin laden in 83 if they knew what he was gonna get up to.
hilter could have been smothered in his cradle.
baby benito mussolini could have been sold to gypsies
and stalin's birth could have been blocked by the timely use of a condom or, failing that, a Falcon Punch.

if the intelligence agencies were prefect and prescient, we wouldnt call them intelligence agencies. we would call them Oracles.
Oracles generally get much better funding than intelligence services, so if they could predict the future they would.

 

[echelon1k1]

and yet the onus was on him to PROVE he got rid of the shit, otherwise the cease fire was not on.

he didnt abide by a single provision of the cease fire.

as far as eliminating saddam in 88, woulda shoulda coulda.
the cia could have snuffed bin laden in 83 if they knew what he was gonna get up to.
hilter could have been smothered in his cradle.
baby benito mussolini could have been sold to gypsies
and stalin's birth could have been blocked by the timely use of a condom or, failing that, a Falcon Punch.

if the intelligence agencies were prefect and prescient, we wouldnt call them intelligence agencies. we would call them Oracles.
Oracles generally get much better funding than intelligence services, so if they could predict the future they would.

He did decommission alot of it with only very small stockpiles that would be confined to a "local hazzard" not anything on a major scale. Weapons inspectors were in there 'till about '98, but all the sanctions did was fuck the people, it was only when sanctions affected his powerbase did he act and only then it was just enough to get by.

I know the republican in you cannot accept it was a bullshit war for bullshit reasons, especially as rumsfeld put in writing on 9/11 "wrap it all up - related or not we can get saddam as well as UBL" (i'm paraphrasing but it's pretty close)

Iraq's not the only violator of UNSCR's by my count Israels in violation of like 100 resolutions, so there's no real justification there if you want to argue UNSCR violations as justification for war.

Oh and Mr. Chalabi is a known liar and pimp who will do anything for money so his word was know at the time to mean jackshit, didn't bother Bush & Co though...

 

[MellowFarmer]

Thank you for exposing the truth that Iran is a big orgy nation that loves peace drugs and singing kumbaya. Oh wait they may chop your fucking head off for that but it's all good.

This is a great example of the propaganda that has caused you to not know why you hate Iran.

nonthist, where did you hear that? And yes, Iranians are much more peaceful and apt to sing kumbaya than we are. When was the last time you did?

 

[Dr Kynes]

He did decommission alot of it with only very small stockpiles that would be confined to a "local hazzard" not anything on a major scale. Weapons inspectors were in there 'till about '98, but all the sanctions did was fuck the people, it was only when sanctions affected his powerbase did he act and only then it was just enough to get by.

I know the republican in you cannot accept it was a bullshit war for bullshit reasons, especially as rumsfeld put in writing on 9/11 "wrap it all up - related or not we can get saddam as well as UBL" (i'm paraphrasing but it's pretty close)

Iraq's not the only violator of UNSCR's by my count Israels in violation of like 100 resolutions, so there's no real justification there if you want to argue UNSCR violations as justification for war.

Oh and Mr. Chalabi is a known liar and pimp who will do anything for money so his word was know at the time to mean jackshit, didn't bother Bush & Co though...

800 artillery shells in a hidden magazine that began leaking mustard and vx when they were abandoned by their caretakers.

thats not a "small stockpile" nor was it non-functional before it was babandoned by it's caretakers when the second invasion started since they didnt wanna get blowed up.

and thats just ONE of dozens of stockpiles revealed in wikileaks which were concealed from the press and the people so nobody would panic, since saddam had 10 years to do as he wished (including making oil money and arms smuggling deals with kofi anan and his son...) with ZERO real scrutiny. saddam had the means, the motive and the opportunity to sell/trade/give chemical weapons to various terrorist organizations. it is pure luck, and their own incompetence at handling these weapons that has prevented the use of chemical weapons already.

 

[Carthoris]

and yet the onus was on him to PROVE he got rid of the shit, otherwise the cease fire was not on.

he didnt abide by a single provision of the cease fire.

as far as eliminating saddam in 88, woulda shoulda coulda.
the cia could have snuffed bin laden in 83 if they knew what he was gonna get up to.
hilter could have been smothered in his cradle.
baby benito mussolini could have been sold to gypsies
and stalin's birth could have been blocked by the timely use of a condom or, failing that, a Falcon Punch.

if the intelligence agencies were prefect and prescient, we wouldnt call them intelligence agencies. we would call them Oracles.
Oracles generally get much better funding than intelligence services, so if they could predict the future they would.

[video=youtube;CfGIeNALguE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfGIeNALguE&feature=player_detailpage#t=13 6s[/video]

That is why Oracles get better funding.

 

[Carthoris]

800 artillery shells in a hidden magazine that began leaking mustard and vx when they were abandoned by their caretakers.

thats not a "small stockpile" nor was it non-functional before it was babandoned by it's caretakers when the second invasion started since they didnt wanna get blowed up.

and thats just ONE of dozens of stockpiles revealed in wikileaks which were concealed from the press and the people so nobody would panic, since saddam had 10 years to do as he wished (including making oil money and arms smuggling deals with kofi anan and his son...) with ZERO real scrutiny. saddam had the means, the motive and the opportunity to sell/trade/give chemical weapons to various terrorist organizations. it is pure luck, and their own incompetence at handling these weapons that has prevented the use of chemical weapons already.

Or maybe... just maybe.... he just wasn't as fucking crazy as we pretended he was. Was luck and incompetence what kept the Soviet Union from nuking us?

 

[Dr Kynes]

Or maybe... just maybe.... he just wasn't as fucking crazy as we pretended he was. Was luck and incompetence what kept the Soviet Union from nuking us?

saddam was not gonna use chemical weapons against the us, ir israel or franc eor england, or really anybody except the local kids he could bully. saddam ONE TIME stepped up and tried to get tough with a country that was not on international paraih (iran) helpless ethnic minorities in his own country (kurds) religious dissidents (shiites) or some other easy target.

the problem was he is UNSTABLE he might, in a fit of pique, or just to be an asshole, or for a fat sack of cash, have given chemical weapons (his only real move, since biological and nuclear were out of his reach) to hamas, or islamic jihad, or bin laden, or whoever.

if you think we went to war with saddam because we were afraid he would nuke us, you havent been paying attention.

saddam invaded kuwait, a country which had a mutual defense pact with the US. after he got his ass kicked saddam signed a cease fire that kept him in power.

he did not keep any portion of the cease fire agreement's stipulations.

for 10 years he did as he pleased thanks to bush 1's wimpiness, clinton's incompetence and primary pre-occupation with fat chicks.

bush2 and company had to explain why they needed to fuck saddam again despite ten years of "no wmd's" "No blood for oil" and other such idiocy, so they "rolled it all up" with exaggeration, non-sequitors and a few examples of lilly gilding.

gulf war 2 was essential, and 10 years late. it's sheer luck that hamas andd al aqusa didnt get their mitts on some VX and set it off in the new york subway.