Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???

[Slab]

You mean these huge four foot dense repeatedly defoliated bushes View attachment 2497886View attachment 2497887View attachment 2497888View attachment 2497889

The fist two are from the January 1 week 4 the second two Jan 10 the last two are my shield I made you can see the dense bushes defoliation brings if done early and repeatedlyView attachment 2497895View attachment 2497896

those plants will do that will very little " help" from you. You are doing it as a an adjustment not as a method to improve yield.


instead of reflecting the sweet spot I would lower the bulb so that it is shining on the plants.

 

[woodsmantoker]

"It flies right into the face of your practices and supports the botanical fact that a shaded apple is sum mightee fine eatin'!"

I do eat em! Well, juice them rather. But thats leaf talk, not fruit. I just eat my apples..

BTW, my shaded apples do eat well. But my shaded trees makes less of them...

Apples and Oranges?

 

[Uncle Ben]

I run flat screens. They fill up. They make shade. The leafs under it die. I remove them before they do. Any questions?

I have none, don't really care, but if I was you I'd be trying to understand why I'm losing leaves. In my example on the previous page, do you seen any impending leaf necrosis at the bottom of the plants?

No you don't. Any questions?

UB

 

[Uncle Ben]

....your right about the plant regenerating leaves to replace what was taken within a few days from the small side branches making them grow much more this is something most people overlook on this topic it makes many more bud sites.

I talked it about at least twice in this thread, even stating where the fan leaf output would originate from. Reference my defoliating Mex plants..... I don't see it making any more bud sites. Whether you have an 'old' leaf petiole 90* to a node or you have a re-generated leaf petiole/fan leaf produced in the axis of the node where buds are produced, seems immaterial to me. I'd say that Trainwreck mutt pic I posted has about as much flowering as a plant is gonna get.

UB

 

[keebo3000]

No wonder you manually defoliate. You're just beating the plant to what is gonna be its final outcome - fan leaf necrosis. I'm not here to put you down, but those leaves do not look healthy. What foods are you using? Uhhhhh, let me guess. You've been using some "cannabis specific" snake oils like Advanced Shysters or Humboldt that is low in N and too damn high in K. Did I guess it right, get the prize?

This is what you should aim for - an abundance of medium to dark green, healthy fan leaves. Plants were a couple of weeks prior to harvest. This plant was crammed into my indoor garden with many others, and, guess what kiddies? Notice the bottom SHADED buds, like 20" down from the top, are FAT and DENSE! It flies right into the face of your practices and supports the botanical fact that a shaded apple is sum mightee fine eatin'!

View attachment 2498189

And just for shits and grins, here's an outdoor sativa that was topped for 4 main colas. Those colas are a foot wide, at least. The one in the foreground about 18" wide due to the weight of the buds. And yes, the 4 colas were staked the best I could do.

View attachment 2498191

As an aside, I've been noting my observations for years - noobs (and some veteran gardeners) often embrace the (dysfunctional) romance they have with the minority of gardeners who defoliate. Why? Because they have not yet learned what makes a plant tick, mastered practices required to retain healthy leaves until harvest, so, they spin their shortcomings, sour grapes style, to protect their egos. Simple Psychology 405....

UB

you have never heard me claim to be anything other than an "experimenting noob" that being said, i like where i am in this grow. do i wish i could keep the leaves greener throughout , of course i do, unfortunately, hasnt happened yet, but as surprisingly and humorous as you might find this.... THIS IS THE GREENEST RUN i've had to this point ... you can't take my joy.. on the road to sucess i feel i've taken a few steps...


peace,
KB3000

 

[woodsmantoker]

"Do you seen" Past or present bucky? I am loosing ya pal!

The last page, had several examples my brother, ya gotta get a bit specific with your ol' folks here so we can follow eh? Maybe the pictures you posted? I see a plant that gets light from a revolving source or vis versa. But what I really gather, is that your implying leafs do not die from lack of lighting, and question necrosis which is nutrient related, or the lack there of. This correct?

 

[Slab]

Uh oh someone's butt hurt

 

[woodsmantoker]

Leaf removal in my own "Scrog" cultivation, is not a measure taken to ensure "more" of anything.. Strait shoot folks. Take the time to think of what the question really is. Then ask exactly that. Do leafs die from lack of light? Does added light to a bud or leaf surface increase productive potential? Do the surfaces that are going to be exposed, have more potential for photosynthisis than that of which has been removed? At what point is a mature leaf more productive than twice as many imature leafs below it? What parts of the plant assist in photosynthesis? etc.

What I often see in this argument, is the lack of focus on what other benifits are being achieved that may out weigh not doing it. I agree having an understanding of what the functions of the plant are, assist you best in understanding how to best suit your desires. What I cannot agree with, is that leaf removal is simply snake oil.

I like 12 inches between my screen and the bucket top. I like my hands and spray bottles etc to fit under it. Simple. Thats the function that I am after. No one can argue that I am better off with the foliage there, without arguing my preferences are unfit. I have a purpose to what I do, and that purpose is served. Ben has a purpose to cutting the top off and training four colas. That purpose is served. I can argue that I didnt loose my top.. Whats it to ya? If you came to learn plant biology or botany, you likely made a mistake in your choice of resources regardless of folks desire to help you here anyways. I tend to see things from the opimists eye however, and believe that the thousand to one correct answer amist a pile of incorrect, is a reflection of how many people want to help. I also tend to believe that I can learn more from a room full of mistakes than I can a book full of correct answers. I were to take someones snake oil, and put it on my wounds, I couldn't blame the person who made the snake oil, or the ones that told me it would help, for it not working or my lack of understanding of why... If I heard about this snake oil however, and did my own research into it, learned that snake venom actually IS used to help people that have been biten by the same type of snake but that rubbing it on wasnt going to do me any good, I have actually learned something from the snake oil and the person who introduced me.

(no spell check today folks, being educated does not have to mean your not retarded in some way)

 

[elkukupanda]

removed

what????? the main reason why you want to keep the foliage as healthy as possible is so they can collect and *store* as much energy as possible... Nitrogen uptake never stops...

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

Secondly...doesn't anyone know how these plants grow? In flower about the 2-3 week range with all cannabis a metabolical change happens from producing green leaf to flowers. Nitrogen uptake almost comes to a complete stop because they are now producing flowers. It is at this stage that leaf production slows and the plant starts dropping its leaves. Leaving fan leaves after this point only makes the plant use energy towards something other then flower production. Pretty simple to understand.

This is the most unfounded, utter bullshit I have read to date. And is so fucking far off from fact its beyond comical...just confirms UBs statement on passing blame...

 

[keebo3000]

I wonder what it's like to have groupies.

 

[Uncle Ben]

....do i wish i could keep the leaves greener throughout , of course i do, unfortunately, hasnt happened yet, but as surprisingly and humorous as you might find this.... THIS IS THE GREENEST RUN i've had to this point ...

2 observations - (1) you dodged my question and (2) regarding "greenest run" comment, it doesn't surprise me as I'm sure I hit the nail on the head with my educated guess.

Was willing to help, but I see there's no use trying. (Another reason why I've unsubbed to many RIU threads, including my own. Some just don't get it.)

Good luck,
UB

 

[elkukupanda]

The more i read.... the more i see fucking UB saying.. see mother fuckers... i told you!... here is a read about plant reaction light.. hormones and some other stuff that UB talks about.. http://www.nicholls.edu/biol-ds/Biol156/Lectures/Plant Hormones 2.pdf

 

[Slab]

I wonder what it's like to have groupies.

Protege would be the correct term.

 

[Uncle Ben]

The more i read.... the more i see fucking UB saying.. see mother fuckers... i told you!... here is a read about plant reaction light.. hormones and some other stuff that UB talks about.. http://www.nicholls.edu/biol-ds/Biol156/Lectures/Plant Hormones 2.pdf

Exactly, and what an excellent, down to earth white paper. Wanna bet not one person here (but you) bookmarks that link for future reference?

Been talking about those issues for decades.

UB

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

Protege would be the correct term.

Nice vernacular. But I think you just became a groupie of mine! lmao

 

[Slab]

Nice vernacular. But I think you just became a groupie of mine! lmao

Hahaha male groupie, reminds me of a eunuch .

 

[Uncle Ben]

But what I really gather, is that your implying leafs do not die from lack of lighting, and question necrosis which is nutrient related, or the lack there of. This correct?

That is correct. You need to give up this forum myth/paradigm. I explained the psychology. Go back a page and open up my Trainwreck. The lower part of the plant is shaded, at least by forum "standards" it is. Do you see ANY leaf yellowing? It's only a couple of weeks from harvest too.

Here's an outdoors O. haze that got nothing but a 18-4-9 slow release food during its life, March - Nov. I'll try to dig up a photo to show you the lower leafsets. Why did I use such a high N food? Because that's what they wanted (as opposed to forum hearsay or some stupid snake oil vendor's grow chart scripted for noobs...... recommending a bunch of blathering nonsense).





What's amazing is how they came thru daily sustained high winds that always precede our cold fronts. We're talking in the 30's. They just got their asses kicked by mama nature. 7' tall at harvest.

Try sustaining a pure sativa indoors for 6 - 8 months of its entire life like I did with a Dalat Vietnamese. Now, if I had used the typical nute profile common with most RIU gardeners, they would have been gone by the 4th month. Still lost quite a bit but that sure wasn't because of a lack of light. One plant had a 600W HPS all to herself, plus blinding white side reflectors. (see the attached)

 

[Slab]

The more i read.... the more i see fucking UB saying.. see mother fuckers... i told you!... here is a read about plant reaction light.. hormones and some other stuff that UB talks about.. http://www.nicholls.edu/biol-ds/Biol156/Lectures/Plant%20Hormones%202.pdf

Thanks Elk! Nice find.

 

[Slab]

View attachment 2498311View attachment 2498312

That is correct. Try sustaining a pure sativa indoors for 6 - 8 months of its entire life like I did a Dalat Vietnamese. Now, if I had used the typical nute profile of RIU gardeners, they would have been gone by the 4th month.

Here's an outdoors O. haze that got nothing but a 18-4-9 slow release food during its life, March - Nov. I'll try to dig up a photo to show you the lower leafsets.

That plant make me so horny, she love you long time g.i. Joe