How do I get to heaven? Answers to your questions on eternal life.

420IAMthatIAM

Active Member
Isaiah 7 was not a messianic prophecy. It is a contemporary prophecy for King Ahaz. The original Hebrew word does not mean virgin, but maiden, or young woman. Also, the Hebrew uses the definite article (“the"). It is likely meant to indicate that Isaiah pointed to a woman who was present at the scene of the prophet’s interview with Ahaz. Isaiah would not be referring to a future virgin conceiving the messiah in this way.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
What are you trying to say? Bible quotes are meaningless without your editorializing.

It is likely the non-Hebrew speaking author of Matthew used the Greek translation of Isaiah in the Septuagint (LXX) where the word parthenos was used which actually does mean virgin. His misapplication of the prophecy intended for King Ahaz in no way validates your belief that Isaiah 7:14 was a messianic prophecy.
You don't find it odd that the Gospel of Mark, which Matthew borrows heavily from, says absolutely nothing about Mary being a virgin? Why would something so important be left out? Is it possible that Matthew made the decision that Jesus should be born to a virgin like many of the other man-gods he was familiar with, including Caesar himself? So in order to find support for his personal belief, he looked to and found support in Isaiah, even though it makes absolutely no sense to offer a sign for King Ahaz, 700 years after he was dead!
 

420IAMthatIAM

Active Member
What are you trying to say? Bible quotes are meaningless without your editorializing.

It is likely the non-Hebrew speaking author of Matthew used the Greek translation of Isaiah in the Septuagint (LXX) where the word parthenos was used which actually does mean virgin. His misapplication of the prophecy intended for King Ahaz in no way validates your belief that Isaiah 7:14 was a messianic prophecy.
You don't find it odd that the Gospel of Mark, which Matthew borrows heavily from, says absolutely nothing about Mary being a virgin? Why would something so important be left out? Is it possible that Matthew made the decision that Jesus should be born to a virgin like many of the other man-gods he was familiar with, including Caesar himself? So in order to find support for his personal belief, he looked to and found support in Isaiah, even though it makes absolutely no sense to offer a sign for King Ahaz, 700 years after he was dead!
oh I am sorry I thought you were a believer forget what I said I not on this planet to judge or to convince nonbelievers of anything, my apologies.:o
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
oh I am sorry I thought you were a believer forget what I said I not on this planet to judge or to convince nonbelievers of anything, my apologies.:o
I am not inquiring to be convinced, I am interested in your answers as to how you can reconcile your beliefs with the facts. Of course, my guess is that you were unaware of the actual context of Isaiah 7 and likewise the author of Matthew's misapplication. However, now that you have been informed, are you not interested in discussing it?

Calling me an nonbeliever is also irrelevant. Everything I just posted to you comes from a Jewish perspective/literal Hebrew reading of the Tanakh. My personal belief or non-belief is inconsequential to your error in accepting Isaiah 7:14 as a Messianic prophecy.
 

Wilksey

Well-Known Member
You don't "get" to "heaven", you MAKE "heaven". HERE. On THIS particular rock. Just as you make "hell".

Like the individual, BOTH are unique, and one mans' "heaven" is another mans' "hell". I have seen both, and I imagine I am not alone.

The birds hanging out in my back yard, the hawks soaring in the sky above, the cows grazing in the pasture behind my development, some delicious home grown cannabis, a bunch of other thriving pepper plants, and the fact that I'm not worried about any imminent encounters with a few hundred pounds of high explosives, tells me that I am currently in heaven.

It's very nice.


Good luck to you regardless, and I hope you find what you're looking for...
 

OldGrowth420

Well-Known Member
My hope is that people would wake up, and find God before they end up stuck with the decisions they made burning and being tortured forever.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
My hope is that people would wake up, and find God before they end up stuck with the decisions they made burning and being tortured forever.
you wouldn't think that such a great, loving, powerful god would choose such cryptic and difficult ways to 'find' him. If god made us and gave us reason and intellect and then requires us to abandon those traits and instead relies on indoctrination of children and blind faith, the antithesis of reason, it makes me wonder how important it is to him that we actually believe.
 

OldGrowth420

Well-Known Member
It's important, and it's planted within you to believe.. Otherwise you wouldn't question whether you did or not..
No one is going to force you to believe or follow God, not even God Himself.
He has me spending literally nearly all of my day everyday spreading His message, so it must be important to Him.
He loves me so much, i know He wants me to be out enjoying my life and goofing off...
But instead i work night and day bringing in the lost sheep.
As is His perfect will.
Praise God.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
“The Tuatha Dé Danann of the precious jewels,
Where did they find learning?
They came upon perfect wisdom
In druidism (and) in deviltry.

Fair Iardanel, a prophet of excellence,
Son of Nemed, son of Agnoman,
Had as a foolish offspring the active Beothach,
Who was a hero of cleaving, full of wonders.

The children of Beothach, —-long-lived their fame-—
The host of valiant heroes came,
After sorrow and after great sadness,
To Lochlann with all of their slips.

Four cities,-—just their renown-—
They held in sway with great strength.
On this account they passionately made competition
For learning their genuine wisdom.

Failias and bright Gorias,
Findias (and) Murias of great prowess,
From whichi battles were won outside,
(Were) the names of the chief cities.

Morfis and noble Erus,
Uscias and Semiath, ever-fierce,
To name them,—-a discourse of need--
(These were) the names of the sages of nehle wisdom.

Morfis (was) the poet of Failias itself,
In Gorias (was) Esrus of keen desires),
Semiath (was) in Murias, the fortress of pinnacles,
(And) Uscias (was) the fair seer of Findias.

Four presents (were fetched) with them hither,
By the nobles of the Tuatha DO Danann:
A sword, a stone, a caldron of worth,
(And) a spear for the death of great champions.

From Failias (came) hither the Lia Fail,
Which shouted under the kings of Ireland.
The sword in the hand of the nimble Lug
From Gorias (it was procured), -— a choice of vast riches.

From far-away Findias over the sea
Was brought the deadly spear of Nuada.
From Murias (was conveyed) a huge and mighty treasure,
The caldron of the Dagda of lofty deeds.

The King of Heaven, the King of feeble men,
May he protect me, the King of royal parts,
The Being in whom is the endurance of spectres,
And the strength of the gentle race.”


Tuatha Dé Danann.

Nuff Said.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
It's important, and it's planted within you to believe.. Otherwise you wouldn't question whether you did or not..
Ah, no. It seems a very human trait to believe in something, but having a feeling there is something greater than us does not mean that there is, and it certainly doesn't mean that it is the desert tribal god anymore than it means that it is Zeus or Shiva.
No one is going to force you to believe or follow God, not even God Himself.
I made no mention of being forced to believe. My point was that if there is a being that WANTS us to believe, your particular god makes it quite difficult to do so if you are the type of person that values reason, logic and evidence -- traits he supposedly gave us.
He has me spending literally nearly all of my day everyday spreading His message, so it must be important to Him.
So if there really isn't a god and it is all in your mind, it certainly seems to me to be a waste of a person's time and energy to spend so much of it spreading a message.
He loves me so much, i know He wants me to be out enjoying my life and goofing off...
But instead i work night and day bringing in the lost sheep.
As is His perfect will.
Praise God.
Interesting how you claim that you KNOW things about this god because of how he communicates to you but when asked for specifics, he suddenly becomes a mystery to you. EVERYONE has a god voice in their head. There is absolutely no way to distinguish between our internal dialogue that is completely a function of human neurology and an outside voice coming from a god.
Here's a question since you seem to KNOW. If this god of yours suddenly wanted you to kill your son (or another family member), would you do it? If you wouldn't do it, then you must not believe that the 'voice' is god, if you will, then you have no place in society and should be locked up.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Ah, no. It seems a very human trait to believe in something, but having a feeling there is something greater than us does not mean that there is, and it certainly doesn't mean that it is the desert tribal god anymore than it means that it is Zeus or Shiva.
...IAO-Zeus (Jesus). Just my 3¢ :)
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
...IAO-Zeus (Jesus). Just my 3¢ :)
no just no


[h=3]The twelve major gods[/h]
Greek nameRoman nameImageFunctions and attributes
ZeusJupiterKing of the gods and ruler of Mount Olympus; god of the sky and thunder. Youngest child of the Titans Cronus and Rhea. Symbols include the thunderbolt, eagle, oak tree, scepter and scales. Brother and husband of Hera, although he had many lovers. Brother of Poseidon and Hades.
HeraJunoQueen of the gods and the goddess of marriage and family. Symbols include the peacock, pomegranate, crown, cuckoo, lion and cow. Youngest daughter of Cronus and Rhea. Wife and sister of Zeus. Being the goddess of marriage, she frequently tried to get revenge on Zeus' lovers and their children.
PoseidonNeptuneGod of the seas, earthquakes and horses. Symbols include the horse, bull, dolphin and trident. Middle son of Cronus and Rhea. Brother of Zeus and Hades. Married to the Nereid Amphitrite, although, like most male Greek Gods, he had many lovers.
DemeterCeresGoddess of fertility, agriculture, nature, and the seasons. Symbols include the poppy, wheat, torch, and pig. Middle daughter of Cronus and Rhea. Her Latin name, Ceres, gave us the word "cereal".
DionysusBacchusGod of wine, celebrations and ecstasy. Patron god of the art of theatre. Symbols include the grapevine, ivy, cup, tiger, panther, leopard, dolphin and goat. Son of Zeus and the mortal Theban princess Semele. Married to the Cretan princess Ariadne. The youngest Olympian, as well as the only one to have a mortal mother.
ApolloApollo (or Phoebus)[SUP][A][/SUP]God of light, knowledge, music, poetry, prophecy and archery. Son of Zeus and Leto. Symbols include the sun, lyre, bow and arrow, raven, dolphin, wolf, swan and mouse. Twin brother of Artemis.
ArtemisDianaGoddess of the hunt, virginity, childbirth, archery, the moon, and all animals. Symbols include the moon, deer, hound, she-bear, snake, cypress tree and bow and arrow. Daughter of Zeus and Leto and twin sister of Apollo.
HermesMercuryMessenger of the gods; god of commerce and thieves. Symbols include the caduceus (staff entwined with two snakes), winged sandals and cap, stork and tortoise (whose shell he used to invent the lyre). Son of Zeus and the nymph Maia. The second-youngest Olympian, just older than Dionysus. He married Dryope, the daughter of Dryops, and their son Pan became the god of nature, lord of the satyrs, inventor of the panpipes and comrade of Dionysus.
AthenaMinervaVirgin goddess of wisdom, handicrafts, defense and strategic warfare. Symbols include the owl and the olive tree. Daughter of Zeus and the Oceanid Metis, she rose from her father's head fully grown and in full battle armor after he swallowed her mother.
AresMarsGod of war, violence and bloodshed. Symbols include the boar, serpent, dog, vulture, spear and shield. Son of Zeus and Hera, all the other gods (except Aphrodite) despised him. His Latin name, Mars, gave us the word "martial."
AphroditeVenusGoddess of love, beauty, and desire. Symbols include the dove, bird, apple, bee, swan, myrtle and rose. Daughter of Zeus and the Oceanid Dione, or perhaps born from the sea foam after Uranus' semen dripped into the sea after being castrated by his youngest son Cronus who then threw his father's genitals into the sea. Married to Hephaestus, although she had many adulterous affairs, most notably with Ares. Her name gave us the word "aphrodisiac", while her Latin name gave us the word "venereal".[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Olympians#endnote_gen.5E[/SUP]


[TR]
[TD]Hephaestus[/TD]
[TD]Vulcan[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Master blacksmith and craftsman of the gods; god of fire and the forge. Symbols include fire, anvil, axe, donkey, hammer, tongs and quail. Son of Hera, either by Zeus or alone. Married to Aphrodite, though unlike most divine husbands, he was rarely ever licentious. His Latin name, Vulcan, gave us the word "volcano."[/TD]
[/TR]



the biblical god

There are a few, my friend.
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the
LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside
me there is no God
."
Isaiah 44:6, KJV

"Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from
that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses.
Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not
any.
"
Isaiah 44:8, KJV

"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God
beside me
: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"
Isaiah 45:5, KJV

"Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel
together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath
told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no
God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none
beside me
."
Isaiah 45:21, KJV

"Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou
shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside
me.
"
Hosea 13:4, KJV
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
...hey, easy with the no's! :) Zeus holding a lightning bolt. Hmm, ok, we know that any reference to lightning, or light, is a matter of consciousness. The Christ, which is an energy (or a consciousness of God) is the lightning of man's generative functions. Yes (yes! oh yes!)

:)
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
...hey, easy with the no's! :) Zeus holding a lightning bolt. Hmm, ok, since we know that any reference to lightning, or light, is a matter of consciousness. So, Christ, which is an energy, or a consciousness of God, is the lightning of man's generative functions. Yes (yes! oh yes!)

:)
biblical god = monotheism = 1 god (off in the sky somewhere)(separated from you)
greek gods = polytheism = group of gods (off in the sky on mount olympus)(separated from you)


"god is my consciousness" = pantheism = god is inside you (is neither of the above and zeus holding a pretty lighting bolt doesnt change that)
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
biblical god = monotheism = 1 god (off in the sky somewhere)(separated from you)
greek gods = polytheism = group of gods (off in the sky on mount olympus)(separated from you)


"god is my consciousness" = pantheism = god is inside you (is neither of the above and zeus holding a pretty lighting bolt doesnt change that)
...sorry, I won't get caught up in that. Gotta go to work but interested in writing this out. It is said that by sex we are born, and that by sex we will pass on. Alpha and Omega.

...go to 'Genesis', the source. "There is only one theism", and it is that which generates. Otherwise, would we be here talking about this stuff? No. So, let's 'start' there - the rest is man's own complication - I'm sure we can agree there.

"There is only one theism" is the one that creates us. It is universal, not specific to any one person or thing. "universal"
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
...sorry, I won't get caught up in that. Gotta go to work but interested in writing this out. It is said that by sex we are born, and that by sex we will pass on. Alpha and Omega.

...go to 'Genesis', the source. "There is only one theism", and it is that which generates. Otherwise, would we be here talking about this stuff? No. So, let's 'start' there - the rest is man's own complication - I'm sure we can agree there.

"There is only one theism" is the one that creates us. It is universal, not specific to any one person or thing. "universal"
i've tried to parse your meaning and the best i've got is your contending:

sex= god and the proof of that is that we're having this conversation?

taking that thought and running with it back to the "genesis" as you request

who had the first fuck that started this "theism"?
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
It's funny to me, going through and reading all of this stuff. What some people refuse to acknowledge or insist on believing. It's funny, most just try to argue their points, very few of us here actually try to empathize and look at things from a different perspective, to try to understand how someone else may feel, or believe... and why.

We are all afraid, that is something all of us has to get used to... we can live with it or pretend it isn't there, neither is right or wrong... it is merely how we all cope with trying understand an existence that none of us can fully understand.

We all either believe in something or we don't, and i hope you would all be able to sit back, and think about the reason why this is. Whether we believe in an afterlife or none, it gives us comfort... we can pretend to know something we really don't know. One of the hardest things we can do as human animals when thinking about the most important questions, the questions that would really MEAN something... is to admit that we don't know, or that we are unsure... because the fear comes back.

Fuck yeah i'm afraid, i'm just as afraid than anyone else in the world when we take away our security blankets of faith and belief... but i don't let that fear dictate the way i am going to think, or make me pretend that my beliefs are 100% true when they could be wrong.

I don't know what happens when you die, or if there is or isn't a god, im just a fucking human animal, a really smart ape, just as scared as the rest of you because no one can give you the answers, YOU can't even give you the answers... the only way to have the answers that would actually MEAN something is to pretend you have them...

But that doesn't quite fix the problem now does it?

Because the secret is out in the open, because anyone who is honest with themselves about everything... we know why you hold onto the beliefs you do, because you are scared... but get this, it's ok... we are scared too.



And that is exactly why it's good to talk about this shit, because even if all of us ARE scared... it makes us less scared knowing that we are all in this together.
 

OldGrowth420

Well-Known Member
If you have voices speaking to you, they might be demons.
If i audibly heard God's voice telling me to do something, and He gave me a clear sign to let me know it was Him.. I would surely obey Him.

My faith is apologetic, and based on evidence i gather daily.
I know that my God is real because he helps me everyday, and I can feel it.
Blind faith is beautiful, but my own faith is based on experience.

Praise God for that, it's so wonderful not to have to fear.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Here is the Visit of the king of Thessaly’s son Cael an iarainn to Ireland, and how unfortunately his walking-match turned out with him; or according to some authorities, the Adventure of the Carle of the Drab Coat.
From Egerton MS 154
Translated by Standish O'Grady. Silva Gaedelica, V.II.
It was a day of gathering and of conference constituted by Finn son of Cumall son of Art son of Trenmor grandson of Baeiscne, with the seven battalions of the reserve and seven of the regular Fianna, at the Hill of Edar son of Edgaeth; and as they threw an eye over the sea and great main they saw a roomy and a gallant ship that upon the waters bore right down for them, from the eastward and under a press of sail. She was fitted out as though for war and contention; and they had not long to wait before they marked a tall, bellicose, impetuously valiant óglaech rise by means of his javelins’ stavesor of his spears’ shafts, and so attain both his soles’ width of the white- sanded beach. A polished and most comely lorica he had on; an armature that was solid and infrangible surrounded him; his handsome red shield surmounted his shoulder, and on his head was a hard helmet; at his left side a sword, wide-grooved, straight in the blade; in his two fists he held a pair of thick-shafted spears, unburnished but sharp; a becoming mantle of scarlet hung on his shoulders, with a brooch of the burnt gold on his broad chest.

Thus equipped then, and in this fashion, he came into the presence of Finn and of the Fianna; and Finn spoke to him, saying: “of the whole world’s bloods, noble or ignoble, who art thou, warrior; or out of which airt of the four art come to us?" “Cael an iarainn is my name, the king of Thessaly’s son; and in all that which (since I left my own land and up to this present) I have perambulated of the globe, I have not left either isle or island but I have brought under tribute of my sword and under my own hand. What now I desire therefore is to carry off the universal tribute and capital power of Ireland.” Conan said: “we never have seen laech, nor heard of warrior, but a man to turn him would be found in Ireland.” “Conan,” answered Cael, “in thine utterance find I nought else than that of a fool or gaby; for were all they that during these seven years past are dead of the Fianna added now to those that yet live of them, I would in one single day treat them all to the grievousness of death and of life curtailed. But I will do a thing which ye will esteem a condition easier than that: if among the whole of you ye find one only laeck that in running, or in single fight, or in wrestling shall get the better of me, no more worry nor trouble will I inflict on you, but will get me gone back to my own land again:’ “Why now,” said Finn, “the runner that we have: Caeilte mac Ronan to wit, he at this moment is not at home; and were he here he would have a run with thee; but if, warrior, thou be a one that will tarry with the Fianna, and with them make friendship and observe the same, while I go to Tara of the Kings to fetch Caeilte whom if I find not there I shall to a certainty get in Keshcorran of the Fianna then do so.” “So be it done,” Cael assented.

Then Finn started on the road, and had not gone far when he happened on an intricate gloomy wood, the diameter of which a deeply scooped out hollow way traversed throughout. Into this forest he had not penetrated any distance before he met a diabolical-looking being of evil aspect, an irrational wild monster of a yellow-complexioned thick-boned giant having on him a long drab coat down to the calves of his two legs, either of which Under him as they carried the great fellow’s ill-assorted body was like the mast of some ship of largest rate; like the side of a wide-wombed boat was each brogue of the two that garnished his knobbed feet armed with curved nails; the drab coat that invested him had to it a pewter platter’s width of a skirt-trimming consisting in a yellow stucco of mud, and this at every step that he took would flap against the calf of one leg so as to knock out of it a report that could be heard half-a-mile of country away; while every time that he lifted a foot, there used half-a-barrel of mire to squirt upwards to his buttocks and even over his entire yellow-tinted person. Finn fell to consider the great man for a length of time (for never before had he seen his like) and walked still on his way till the other spoke, saying: “what is this course of trudging or wandering that is befallen thee to make, Finn son of Cumall, all alone and solitary without a man of Ireland’s Fianna by thee?" “Such,” replied Finn, “is the measure of my perplexity and trouble that I cannot frame to tell thee that nor, though I could, would it do me any good whatsoever.” “Unless to me thou do explain the matter, thou wilt for ever suffer the damage and detriment of it [i.e. of thy reticence].” “Well then,” Finn began, “if I must tell it thee, know it to be the king of Thessaly’s son Cael an iarainn that yesterday at noon came in at Ben-Edar, looking to acquire for himself the rent and rule of all Ireland unless only that some one laech I may find who in running, in single combat or at wrestling, shall overcome him.” “And what would ye do?“ the big one enquired: “for I know him well, and there is not a single thing asserted by him but he is able to fulfil: upon the Fianna universally he would inflict slaughter of men and virile óglaechs.” Finn went on: “I would proceed to Tara of the Kings to fetch Caeilte, whom if I find not there I shall undoubtedly get in Keshcorann of the Fianna, in order that of yon warrior he may win a running match.” “Verily then,” said the big fellow, “thou art but ‘a kingdomless man’ if Caeilte son of Ronan be thy grand resource with which to scare away the other.” “Then indeed I know not what I shall do,” said Finn. “But I do,” quoth the great man: “wouldst thou but put up with me, of that hero I would upon my oath win a running wager.” Finn rejoined: “I esteem that in carrying thy coat and huge brogues for a single half-mile of country thou hast thine utmost endeavour to perform, and not to embark in a running bet with that laech.” “By all that’s positive, unless I win it of him not a man of all Ireland will bring it off.” “So be it done,” consented Finn: “but what is thy name?" and he made answer: “my name is bodach an chóta lachtna or ‘the carle of the drab coat.”’

Then Finn and the Carle returned back again, nor concerning their travel and wayfaring is anything told us until they reached Ben-Edar.

There Ireland’s Fianna in their numbers gathered about the big man, for never before had they seen his like; Cael an iarainn too came upon the ground, and enquired whether Finn had brought a man to run with him. Finn answered that he had, and exhibited his man; but when Cael had seen the Carle he objected that to all eternity he would not run with any such greasy bodach. At this hearing the latter emitted a coarse burst of horse-laughter, saying: “in respect of me thou art deceived, warrior; acquaint me therefore with the length of course that thou wouldst run, the which if I run not with thee, and more too if such be thy pleasure, thine it shall be to take the stakes.” “I care not,” rejoined Cael, “to have in front of me a course of less than three score miles.” “‘Tis well as it happens,” said the Cane: “three score miles exactly they are from Ben-Edar to Slieveluachra of Munster.” “So be it done,” Cael assented. “Well then,” suggested the bodach, “the right thing for us to do is to proceed westwards to Slieveluachra to begin with, and there to put up to-night, so that to-morrow we may be ready for our start and our walk.”

Those two good laechs (Cael an iarainn the king of Thessaly’s son namely, and the Carle of the drab coat) set out accordingly, - and of their journey there is not any record until as the sun went under they reached Slieveluachra of Munster. “Cael,” said the other then, “it behoves us to knock up some kind of dwelling, whether house or hut, to have over our heads.” But Cael - retorted: “by all that’s certain, I never will set about building a house on Slieveluachra for the sake of passing one night there, considering that I have no desire at all ever during the whole - Course of my life to return thither.” “So be it,” quoth the bodach: “but if I can manage to put up the like, ‘tis far enough away outside of it will be any that shall not have given his help to make it.”

The Carle entered then into the nearest darkling and intricate wood, where he never stayed nor rested till he had tied up four-and-twenty couples of gross timber; and these, along with their complement of rafters from the same wood and of fresh rushes of the mountain, he brought in that one load and so erected a house long and wide, all thatched and warm. Of the forest’s sticks both green and dry he on that lodging’s floor made up a vast bonfire, and a second time addressed Cael: “if thou be a man to come with me and in these woods seek some game or other-” ‘I understand nothing about it,” answered Cael: “and if I did, ‘tis not to second the like of thee would go.”

Again the bodach sought the nearest wood’s recesses, into which he was not penetrated far when he roused a drove of wild swine; the stoutest boar that he saw he cut off from the rest and, along every track, through every covert, followed until by strenuousness of running and of painful effort he vanquished and struck him to the earth; neatly and expeditiously he made him ready and before that same great fire put him down to roast, with a turning contrivance to the spits that should keep them going of themselves. Then the Carle started, nor ever halted before he attained to the baron of Inchiquin’s house (that was a score and ten miles from Slieveluachra) and brought away two barrels of wine, two pewter dishes, all as much bread as there was ready in the house, a table and a chair, the whole of which he carried in the one load and so regained Slieveluachra. Here he found his meat roasted before him; half of the boar, a moiety of the bread and a barrel of wine he set aside to provide for the morning; the other half of each he served to himself upon the table, and comfortably, luxuriously, sat down. He ate his full quantum of meat, after which he ingurgitated into his person a barrel of wine; upon the floor of that caravanserai he shook out a copious layer of rushes, and was wrapped in sleep and lasting slumber until on the morrow’s day both the all-brilliant sun rose, and Cael an iarainn (who during the night had been on the mountain’s side without meat or drink) came and roused him from his snooze, saying: “rise, bodach! it is now time for us to set about our journey and our wayfaring.” With that the Cane woke up, rubbed his eyes with his palms, and said: “there is an hour’s time of my sleep that I have not worked out yet; but since thou art in a hurry, I yield thee my consent that thou be off, and undoubtedly I will be after thee.”

Accordingly Cael went ahead upon the way, not without great misgiving by reason of the small account which he saw the bodach make of him. When now the latter had slept his stint he rose to a sitting posture, washed his face and hands, served himself up meat on the table; then at his perfect ease sat down to it, ate up the remaining half of boar and bread, and finally swigged off the second barrel of wine.

At this point the Cane got up, in his drab coat’s skirt he carefully stowed away the pig’s bones, and away with him at the speed of a swallow or of a roe, or as it had been a blast of the searing March wind careering over the summit of some hill or rugged-headed rock, until he overhauled Cael an iarainn and across the way in front of him pitched out the porker’s bones, saying: “try, Cael, whether upon those bones thou mayest find any little pick at all; for sure it is that after passing last night in fasting condition on Slieveluachra thou art full of hunger.” “Thou shouldst be hanged, Carle,” he answered, “ere I would go look for meat upon the bones which with thy glutton-tusks thou hast gnawed!” “Well then,” said the bodach, “it were none too much for thee to put on a gait of going better than thou hast done as yet.”​
Here he pushed on as though he were turned to be a madman, and in that one heat went thirty miles; then he fell to eating of blackberries from the brambles that were on either side of the road or way, till such time as Cael came up to him and said: “bodach, thirty miles back from here is the spot in which I saw one skirt of thy drab coat twisted round the neck of a bush, and the second tangled in another bush ten miles behind that again.” “Is it the skirts of my coat?" asked the Cane, looking himself all down. “‘Tis they just,” Cael said. “In that case,” argued the bodach, “that which it were the right thing for thee to do would be to delay here eating of blackberries, in order for me to return and bring back the skirts of my coat.” “It is very certain that I will do no such thing,” answered Cael, and: “so be it,” said the bodach.

Cael went his road, while the Carle returned till he found the skirts of his coat as the other had said; he sat down, pulled out his needle and thread, and so stitched them on in their own place again. This done he retraced his steps, and Cael was not gone far when the Carle caught him up and said to him: “Cael, thou must put on a gait of going better than thou hast done yet, if an thou hast already expressed thou wouldst carry off all Ireland’s tribute; for I will do no more turning back now.”

Then with the speed of swallow [etc. as before] the bodach set off as though converted into a madman; and such the impetuous rush of pedestrianism which carried him along, that soon he surmounted the crown of a certain hill within five miles of Ben-Edar, where he devoted himself to eating of blackberries from the brambles until he had made of himself a juice-filled sack. He then put off his drab coat, again produced his needle and thread, and sewed up the garment so as to make out of it a long and wide bag, very deep. This he stuffed to the muzzle with blackberries, and on his skin rubbed a quantity of the same so that he was as black as any smith’s coal; said load he hoisted upon his shoulder and, stoutly, nimble-footedly set out, making for Ben-Edar.

The position of Finn and of the general Fianna was that they were filled with great apprehension of Cael an iarainn’s being in front, for without knowing in the world who he was they had pitched all their hope in the Carle. Now abroad on a tulach’s top Finn had a certain emissary to spy whether of the two that raced held the lead; and he, so soon as he caught sight of the Carle, went in and told Finn that Cael came along in the way and the bodach dead upon his shoulder. “A suit of arms and of armour,” cried Finn, “to him that shall bring us tidings better than these!” and a second messenger when he was gone out recognised it to be the bodach that was there. Around him the Fianna of all Ireland flocked together joyously, and sought news. “I have good news for you,” he said: “but for the magnitude of my hunger it is not possible for me to publish it before I eat my sufficiency of parched-corn meal and blackberries mixed: my share of these I have brought with me, and let you now provide me my fill of such meal.” On Ben-Edar now a great cloth was opened out on which to serve the Carle, with a heap of meal in its very centre; in among the meal he shot his sack of blackberries, and with a will turned to at eating them.

But soon they saw Cael along the road, with his hand at his sword’s hilt, his two eyes blazing red in his head, and he ready to charge in among the Fianna to hew them and to bone-split When then the bodach saw him in this array, he picked up his great paw’s fill of the meal and blackberries, and upon Cael discharged the mess to such purpose that he banished his head to the distance of a fair scope of ground from his body; then where the head was thither he ran, and with it a second time let fly at the trunk in a way that he fastened it on as solid as ever it had been. The manner of him now however was with his face to his back, his poll upon his chest; so the bodach ran at him, dashed his whole carcase violently to earth, lashed him up hard and fast and inextricably, and said: “Cael, was it not a mistaken thing for thee to say that on this occasion the chief rent and sovereign power of Ireland, though there were none but thyself alone to strive for it, would be suffered to go with thee? nevertheless none shall ever have it to say to Ireland’s Fianna that to a solitary warrior, he having none but himself to take his part, they would administer grievousness of death and of short life. If therefore thou be one to swear by sun and moon in guarantee of thy transmitting the rent of Thessaly yearly during thy life long to Finn and to the Fianna, thou shalt have thy life in the guise which now thou wearest” By sun and moon Cael swore yearly to fulfil that all his life.

Then the bodach takes him by the tips of his fingers, leads him to his ship and puts him in sitting posture into her; to the vessel’s afterpart he gave a kick, and with that same sent her seven leagues out to sea. There you have the fashion in which the expedition of the king of Thessaly’s son Cael an iarainn turned out with him: to be dismissed home under the conditions of a fool or simpleton, without power ever again so long as he should live to strike a blow in battle or in tough single encounter. The bodach came back to Finn and the Fianna, and told them that he was the fairy chief of ráth Chruachan or ‘Rathcroghan,’ that came to loose them out of the fetters in which they had been [i.e. to succour them in their straits]. For the fairy chief Finn then made a feast and banquet of a year and a day.

So far then the adventures of Cael an iarainn, the king of Thessaly’s son, and of the Carle of the Drab Coat
Finis.

And Jesus wasnt even involved.
 
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