Astir Grow Led Panel Project...

stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
The smaller plant -the more indica dom- has been hanging to dry ...
Well most of it ...
5 grams of semi-dry (towards dry ..stems did almost snap...) herb are already being ... admired & enjoyed ...

Now ...buds are from the" smallest side branches" ones ...
Here some pics ....




Buds are quite fluffy and small-sized ...
But way smelly ( still the "fresh herb " smell is present ) ,having an odour that resembles not fuel anymore but rather something
spicy kinda fruity ...Not any lemon/lime/orange kind of odours here ...
Not very heavy skunky smell ,either ...
Something light and almost sweet and pepperish ...

Sticky ? Your skin will stick and peel off from your flesh ,if you try to do any finger job with that small Sh!t ....
Grinder stops rotating after couple of turns ...
Ha-ha-ha ....
No seriously ...It is sticky ...

Taste is way light and with smooth white/bluish smoke ..
Way too smooth ,for such fresh herb ...
Nice ...

Potency ?

Potent but torelable ...
Kinda trippy effect ...
You jump off the couch ,to go to the kitchen to ...To do what ?
" What the @#$ I wanted to do here ? "
'Shadow rips' seem to pass from nowhere ,really rapidly ...
Well ,weird effect ...
And has quite long duration ...
2-3 hours of winter urban walking ...
Gooood...
But not much ...
I do not think it is more than 30 grams ,all of it ...
Let's see what the other should yield ....
 
E

Evo8Emperor

Well-Known Member
now that's a review. lol.

I still want to upgrade my led in the future but as of right now I don't have the lights available for that one to be down.

That bud does look nice and tasty though man. Great lookin pic.
 
agios

agios

Member
weedman420gr said:
You bet you should write something beggining from the "Memoirs of a Salor"

I'll search more on the tween 20,80 subject...

Just now ,it came to my mind that i dont think i can even imagine/assume the quality of the herb growing under the Astir panels...

Think its going to be surprisingly exquisite...

SDS, dont you think that weed under these panels could be considered to have medical bud quality ?
Click to expand...
Regarding the tween 80, i must say that i wasn't very carefull with the amount i was using .you have to be careful.
also, i was only using it as an element that could keep my soil wet and didn;t know that too much of it would wash my soil from all nutrients etc.and that's what happened...
thank God[well ,not exactly God], i stopped it and with some Miller ferts, my Kilimanjaro recovered...
I was simply using something whithout knowing exactly what it is, wrong....Good luck mister!
 
weedman420gr

weedman420gr

Active Member
SDS i love you man! Every time (well not every time,yet it happens quite often :D ) i finish a joint and log in here, you have new updates...:weed:

Well,i was pretty sure that this would be the quality...Now ,30 gramms are not quite close to what i was thinking...However ,Ganja has already shown me the results on quantity...

I was also like to share a though here; I think that leds work perfect in Hydroponics (ok ,thats not something new) but i think also that its not only about the combination leds+sytem used (soil/hydro/etc).It's also about the very important

for me combination of Strain+leds...New Strains (like Northern Lights,White Russian etc, long goes the list)are designed for indoor growing thus they are more suitable for led growing...These strain SDS used think they are ment for outdoor...

Just thought of it and i think i've read smthing similar...
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Well ..
It is evident ,that white leds ( except WW ) have way too much blue light ...

Led grown herbs such as leafy greens grown under B/R combos have shown really high levels of anthocyanin..
(at that case ,it is better to grow those plants under the stressful B/R ,so to be rich in Antocyanins=>antioxidants also to humans ...
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/home/plant_growth.html )

But for ..certain flowering wild weeds ,growers do not careabout the anthocyanin leaf content ...
They do not eat the leaves ...
They smoke / heat the flowers ,to get other ..substances ....
Anti-oxidants also ,but with some additional renown " side-effects " ...

So either they will care for quantity of flowers or either for the quality of flowers ..
Most usually for both ....

White leds CW & NW ....
Way too much blue .....
But "full spectrum ".. ( there's no gaps or wls missing from the range 400 -700 nm )

Not so far at past ...
A new-comer Southern European company to led panel growing
combined then ,some CW with reds 630 nm .. ( 455-460 nm blue from CW ,goes very nice with red 630 for Ch B ... )
It seemed to work ...2.17 gpw !
Next attempt for EVOlution was the combo of NW with 660 nm red ..( 445-450 nm blue from NW ,goes very nice with red 660 for Ch A ,this time ... )
Never made it to market ...
Reason unknown ...

Now ..Remember ...:

Maximum quantum yield occurs when both reaction centres absorb equal numbers of such quanta.


So ,if a panel is designed based on " red & white " school ,it should
contain all four types of this leds ....CW -NW -660-630 ...

An American company -set by a fellow grower -,evolved further the tech and added FR leds ...
As it is natural ,the panels work really fine ...


We keep searching the whole thing ....
Like many do ....

At this point I trust that combining many modern WW with some NW and reds (620-640 ) ,is a much promising way to go ...

-I insist on supplying only the reds that are not so much absorbed ,but their photons are used
most efficiently .Many insist on supplying only the most absorbed reds ,but not the ones with RQE=1 ....
It works both ways ,anyway ....
Better to have both ....

Both ?
630 & 660 ?
660 is way phytochrome active and without FR light ,
(Emmerson effect at PS ,but counter-effects at Phy( Pfr/Pr )
can cause trouble to certain plants ...

Anyother way there ?

...yup...640 nm reds..
Both Chlorophylls absorb that light and still has quite high RQE ....


So ....Warmest of Whites ....+ some NW ...+ 640 nm reds ...
That's the next experiment .....

16 x WW 2500K
4 x NW 4500-5500 K
4 x red 640 nm

All-around panel ....

Still following the school of "White & red leds "....
Again in the same " class"....
We have to pass the "exams "...
Until "remote phosphor screen " school year ,starts ... .....

 
weedman420gr

weedman420gr

Active Member
agios said:
Regarding the tween 80, i must say that i wasn't very carefull with the amount i was using .you have to be careful.
also, i was only using it as an element that could keep my soil wet and didn;t know that too much of it would wash my soil from all nutrients etc.and that's what happened...
thank God[well ,not exactly God], i stopped it and with some Miller ferts, my Kilimanjaro recovered...
I was simply using something whithout knowing exactly what it is, wrong....Good luck mister!
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot Agie mou! (im reading your journal also...very good and you must have polu meraki aderfe ;-) )

Do you think i can follow the program below just with 20-20-20 through the whole grow ? (and without Poly)

Sorry its in greek...
 

Attachments

stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
FWIW (the links might be helpful)

A guy over on IC is going for a 300w. I hope he has 20ft+ ceilings and plans on wearing welding goggles.

High Bay LED lights + heat sinks.

http://www.hjrch.com/en/html/products/708.html

http://www.snowdragonledhk.com/new-led-high-power-50w-100w-300w.htm
Click to expand...
Look....

If it is to use a 6 kg heatsink and 300W of leds ,then why move to leds from HID ?

For the whole attempt to have a meaning ,the yield has to be more than of hid at same wattage range ...

Say, if with a 400 W hps you get from 200 to 400(could be more ,of course ) grams of dry herb ,at average ...
At my mind,using that 300W highbay led ( which color ? Just one ? a combo ? ),
to call it a success,the yield should be ranging from 300 grams to 600 grams(could be more ,of course ) ,at average per every grow ....
Then yes ....
It is worth it ....
Price ?
( heatsink & leds ? )


(Think of Astir panels ...Every single one is 22-23 Watts ...
To be effective as led grow panel over the HIDs* ,it should produce from 22 grams to 44 grams(could be more ,of course ) ,each panel ....
So ..I.e Ganja ....
Six panels .. 6 x 22 = 132 Watts (always at plug,driver included ) ..
Acceptable* yield range is 132 to 264 grams (could be more ,of course ) .... He got 215... He is within the range ,by far ....

-Main Astir led Phylosophy/ purpose of living / target /goal/dream/moto/idea :
Half power than HID ,from equal till up to double yield .Quality AAA.

(For the remote phosphor screen panels ,we 're saving another one.... )


Nowdays ,we're onto "trimming and stabilising" ,the first gen of "white 'n' red " panels ....
Drivers have to be changed ....
Leds to be of better quality ....

Oh....Too many things to do ...And no time at all ....

(could be more ,of course ) = Ok...
Used too many times ,I know ....
What I mean is the usual harvest ...The average yield ,of average plants ,grown by average growers ....
The top part of " Gauss's bell "...
0.5 to 1 gpw for HIDS
1 to 2 gpw* for leds to be effective over the HIDS ( Half power- up to double yield )


*(could be more ,of course ).. :-P


Multiple panels of low wattage{ 20-50 Watt } -wide angle {90°-150°} :
Ideal utilisation of leds for small grow spaces,enclosed in reflective material and small number of plants .
( I.e small cabinets,tower boxes,small grow tents,closet,ect ... )
Superior light power distribution,thus efficiency , than from single high power source alternative .

Single high power sources can serve as ....:

Multiple panels of moderate / high wattage{ 50-500 Watt } -wide or narrow angle :
Ideal utilisation for larger grow spaces and large number of plants .
Wide angle when reflective material ,encolsed space ,(I.e. large grow rooms /tents ),
narrow angle for open space (i.e. greenhouses or large growrooms with walls far from plants ..) .

For a small grow space of 1 x 1 m ,it is way more efficiently to use 10 panels of 30 Watts each ....
Using a single source of 300 Watt instead ,will not be any light power homogeneity (old -very well known -story from HID era .. ) ...

But that single source ,can be just a single panel ,part of a large 10 x 300 Watt led system ,inside a small greenhouse ....
Or in a large indoor area .... (Way more than 1 m^2 - 9 sq.feet ) ..If away from any reflective side surface (walls ) ,then
narrow beam convertion lenses ,should be used ...
Anyway,probably ,they are also hanged to a certain ,rather large ,distance from plant canopies ...
So,there at this case ,additional lenses are way useful ,to "guide" the light,at the right direction ....

Placing 100 panels x 30 Watts each ,at this same case ,close to plants ,is definately not the best of ways to utilise leds .....
Click to expand...
 
agios

agios

Member
weedman420gr said:
Thanks a lot Agie mou! (im reading your journal also...very good and you must have polu meraki aderfe ;-) )

Do you think i can follow the program below just with 20-20-20 through the whole grow ? (and without Poly)

Sorry its in greek...
Click to expand...
if you ask me for ferts, you might end up like me with polysorbate :?
so i guess you probably ask SDS
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Cold Weather ,no money ,good weed ....and here I'm ,listening carefully to my keyboard , dictating me what to write ...
( Shit this weed is way strong ... )

Example 1 :
Extra small space / stealth grow .Area of 500 cm^2 ( ~ 22 x 22 cm )
Inside almost everywhere ....
Temps can become an issue ,though ...
Solution :
8 x WW led lamps ,those the " 3 x 1 Watt " ..For normal household use ...
2 x NW ,same one,as before ...

10 x 3 = 30 watt grow ....


Example 2 :
grow tent 1 x 1 x 2 m ( 3' x 3' x 6' ) :
multiple panels ...
Say 10 x 30 Watt ....
( 1 m^2 , 300 Watt total ) ....

Example 3 :
large room of 20m^2 ...
multiple panels again...leds maybe lensed or not...It depends...
This time 10 x 300 Watt ..
(3000 Watt total ) .....

Example 4 : Greenhouse of 400m^2
....
Multiple panels ....leds are lensed
100 x 300 Watt or 10 x 3000 Watt
(directly depending from cultivated plant's height )
Total 30.000 Watt ....



Now...
Using in the greenhouse, 1000 panels x 30 Watt is not the best idea ....
Using in the small growtent ,a single 300 Watt panel ,is also ,not the best idea ....


(At the above examples, for every x20 grow surface area increase ,there is a x10 power increase ... Random ... )
 
tenthirty

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
Ya, it's cold here too. My babies need the HPS to keep the room above 70 now.
I've been wanting to change the HPS out, but it's too damn cold.
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Hmmm...
That remote phosphor screen from intematix ....
The 2700 K one ...
intematix chromalit.jpg

Really nice curve there .... (the green one .... )
Almost there ,where it should be ...
I wonder ....
With some 445-450 and plenty 455-460 ,underneath ..
At 305 x 215 size ,screen can have approx 50 pcs of leds underneath it.. ( 25 mm / 1 " distance from led to led ,both axes ) ..
50 Watts of blue leds .....(Approx 0.4 x 50 = 20 Watts of light ...)
655.75 cm^2 surface of screen ...
Angle : 115°

(...something tells me a new measurement will come into play :Radiance..
Radiance and spectral radiance are measures of the quantity of radiation that passes through or is emitted from a surface and falls within a given solid angle in a specified direction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiance )

http://www.intematix.com/uploads/files/chromalit_datasheet.pdf
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/optoelectronics/optics-remote-phosphor/525582/page/9?k=intematix
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
stardustsailor said:
Hmmm...
That remote phosphor screen from intematix ....
The 2700 K one ...
View attachment 2471557

Really nice curve there .... (the green one .... )
Almost there ,where it should be ...
I wonder ....
With some 445-450 and plenty 455-460 ,underneath ..
At 305 x 215 size can have approx 50 pcs of leds underneath ( 25 mm / 1 " distance from led to led ,both axes ) ..
50 Watts of blue leds .....
65 675 mm^2 surface of screen ...
Angle : 115°

(...something tells me a new measurement will come into play :Radiance..
Radiance and spectral radiance are measures of the quantity of radiation that passes through or is emitted from a surface and falls within a given solid angle in a specified direction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiance )

http://www.intematix.com/uploads/files/chromalit_datasheet.pdf
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/optoelectronics/optics-remote-phosphor/525582/page/9?k=intematix
Click to expand...
Remote phosphor technology looks promising. I was tempted to buy the Chromalit Demokit, replace those 6 LEDs with ones of higher power and grow something with that light standing alone. The kit comes with interchangeable remote phosphor discs(5k, 4k, 3.5k, 3k, 2,7k). It's too bad it will be a while before I'm setup to grow again...

I'd love to see a Chromalit panel of sorts...
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
Yes, indeed! The main reason I'd purchase the demokit is for the mixing chamber. Building my own would be completely over my head. The cost, to me, would have been paid for by sheer curiosity.

Alas, I must vicariously view remote phosphor technology develop through the internet!
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
No....It is no so difficult as it may appear

I plan to build the main frame of mixing chamber from plexiglass (Some skill needed there... But it is easy ...)
And then apply : Polarkote From LightBeam (official Chromalit partner ) (1 gallon consumer grade PolarKote :200$ ...expensive ,enough... )
http://www.lightbeaminc.com/products/polarkote
( lightbeam can also apply industrial grade polarkote to your own custom-made mixing chambers ..)

BTW ..Check those monster grow lights by LightBeam ....
http://www.lightbeaminc.com/collections/grow-lights/products/led-grow-light

Or find an alternative method to provide over 95% reflectivity and over 97% diffusion ,inside the mixing chamber ..
( hammered alum sheet -diamond mylar -flat white paint doped with quartz/aluminium fine powder..I'll think of something ... )
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
Why not use multi chip LED's? More lumens/cm^2 which is especially useful when Red phosphor (and PolarKote, I guess) is so expensive. You can have custom 50W LED chips made relatively cheaply with, say, 4 x 380nm, 23 x 440nm, and 23 x 460nm. You could even throw some 660nm's in there, the phosphor lens shouldn't hurt their efficiency too much.
 
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