So how about banning all semi-automatic weapons?

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
They could pretty easily make gun ownership rare by registration, outlawing new guns, and then voluntary buy back at more than their actual value. This would get a large percentage of guns. I guess it depends on how much they want it.
You want to use taxpayer money, to buy back guns ABOVE market value from taxpayers that have already spent money on them?

So you basically want to buy their guns off them with their own money, thus making them pay twice and they lose their firearm?

Apologies for resorting to this but...cool story bro.
 

rooky1985

Active Member
We are going to have to concede to the decission made shortly, not to sound defeated by my politicians but I hope it does not carry a big irreversable effect. The 1994 was thought to stay in existence for a long duratian, I think it would be naive to say that assault weapons ban could be lifted in ten years just as the last. Buy back programs are currently being operated in select communities around the U.S., hell they are offering food certificates for them in L.A.. I don't think the money is there for a fed funded buy back (fiscal cliff anyone). I think the media has be religated to fiscall cliff issues which takes that sizzle on gun control back a bit. The Gov. will not deminish current population of guns in any relevant manner, just ban the production of determined platform. This is going to be a hit on the Gun manufactuers and nothing more. In such an unstable and volital economy I think all politicians should tread lightly or more jobs lost.
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
You want to use taxpayer money, to buy back guns ABOVE market value from taxpayers that have already spent money on them?

So you basically want to buy their guns off them with their own money, thus making them pay twice and they lose their firearm?

Apologies for resorting to this but...cool story bro.

I think you probably know my position on things well enough to realize I would never support the sort of thing we are discussing. The honest truth is that if implemented a $200 tax stamp with a deadline to register and then offered a buyback programs a huge portion of guns would come off the streets immediately. I don't think the federal government should be allowed to run schools, social security, health insurance, anything to do with roads, or any of the rest of the things they do. That doesn't change that they do it anyway, and do it in devious ways. The scenario I described seems to be par for government interference.
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
We are going to have to concede to the decission made shortly, not to sound defeated by my politicians but I hope it does not carry a big irreversable effect. The 1994 was thought to stay in existence for a long duratian, I think it would be naive to say that assault weapons ban could be lifted in ten years just as the last. Buy back programs are currently being operated in select communities around the U.S., hell they are offering food certificates for them in L.A.. I don't think the money is there for a fed funded buy back (fiscal cliff anyone). I think the media has be religated to fiscall cliff issues which takes that sizzle on gun control back a bit. The Gov. will not deminish current population of guns in any relevant manner, just ban the production of determined platform. This is going to be a hit on the Gun manufactuers and nothing more. In such an unstable and volital economy I think all politicians should tread lightly or more jobs lost.
I don't have to concede to anything. I do have a few items that are registered with the federal government, but I doubt those will change in the new gun law they are trying to push. Many of them are bolt action military rifles 50+ years old. That being said, I have about a dozen guns that are not registered to me in any way and will likely be banned along with the accessories for them. I have some receivers for AK and AR platforms. I think that most people in my position simply won't register all of their guns.
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
You want to use taxpayer money, to buy back guns ABOVE market value from taxpayers that have already spent money on them?

So you basically want to buy their guns off them with their own money, thus making them pay twice and they lose their firearm?

Apologies for resorting to this but...cool story bro.
You know what I just stated is one of Senator Feinstein's ideas to control guns, right? It is like the democratic platform. They sign thousands of bullshit bills every year, banning guns then offering inflated value for them wouldn't even phase the government. Australia banned guns and then bought them back. I hope the democrats lose their fucking minds and really go after guns. Democrats are as stupid as the Republicans. They score in the election and then go about making themselves into the enemy of the center. It seems like they are trying to ensure that republicans keep the house in 2 years with a landslide to me.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
You know what I just stated is one of Senator Feinstein's ideas to control guns, right? It is like the democratic platform. They sign thousands of bullshit bills every year, banning guns then offering inflated value for them wouldn't even phase the government. Australia banned guns and then bought them back. I hope the democrats lose their fucking minds and really go after guns. Democrats are as stupid as the Republicans. They score in the election and then go about making themselves into the enemy of the center. It seems like they are trying to ensure that republicans keep the house in 2 years with a landslide to me.
In truth, both Democrats and Republicans are both retarded and should just leave shit alone.

Leave some people who actually have some matter inside their cranium to make the decisions.

Fucking Newt Gingrich? Barry O? Rick Fucking Santoram? EDIT: Theres a shitload more, but I'm not bothered typing them, because they're retarded, so fuck them. Ron Fucking Paul tho...lol.

They havnt a fucking brain to share between them.

EDIT AGAIN: It's not an exclusively American problem either so I'm not just ragging on the US, our national Parliment is full of what I'm convinced are mentally retarded children, in suits, with make up that makes them look older and for some reason particularly fucking stupid too.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
For the record my intentions were never "guns eww" I own a ton of weapons and I love them all, I think the way to avoid a full on ban is to do something like this fast and give it a shot. Gun lobyist still get sales, Obama and his council become heros, and ultimatly stricter gun laws are enforced. This will not solve violent acts only mary jane can do that(hopefully we can agree on that).
Never compromise with tyrants.

Here is the only compromise I will make: If you don't like the people's right to keep and bear arms, then amend the constitution to revoke 2A. If you can get that done, I will abide. If you can't, then you abide.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
There are lots of people in NYC, Boston etc. who truly need guns. But they are stymied by legal or de facto bans. E.g. NYC and Boston, technically all you need is a signature form the chief of police. But guess how many they're signing.
So to get guns to those who need them, we must first derestrict. A de facto ban, analogous to that marijuana tax stamp, must be expressly disallowed.

I would want a gun law to recognize the citizen's basic right to own, operate and carry guns. Too many places in this country have already subverted it. I would be more sympathetic to your class 3 proposal if it also incorporated guarantees that there would never again be added restrictions, and that some of the idiot ones, (e.g. California's "assault weapon" ban and the ban on the .50) would be lifted by Federal fiat. I would also specify and require that the guns i own can be bought, sold, bequeathed and transferred to any noncriminal major citizen. I worry that your proposal, unless suitably written, would ruin my plans to bequeath my guns to family. cn
I have a brother that lives in Sharon, MA. No guns. Owning a gun is not against the law, with a permit. An owners permit. (what a crock) But, the Co. Sheriff will not issue any permits even CCW unless under court order. So, to me this is Warlord. An arbitrary master of a small domain.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Never compromise with tyrants.

Here is the only compromise I will make: If you don't like the people's right to keep and bear arms, then amend the constitution to revoke 2A. If you can get that done, I will abide. If you can't, then you abide.
An amendment is possible in a democracy, all it takes is a majority of people using government to deny you of the natural right to defend yourself. Why abide with the denial of a natural right? I thought government was supposed to "protect" natural rights, not redefine or license them.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
An amendment is possible in a democracy, all it takes is a majority of people using government to deny you of the natural right to defend yourself. Why abide with the denial of a natural right? I thought government was supposed to "protect" natural rights, not redefine or license them.
I don't believe there are natural rights. All rights are artifice and consensus. cn
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
The trouble with registries is that they give a tool to the gun banners whose power can hardly be overstated. Witness Britain and Australia with their recent mandatory confscations. History teaches us that the Ratchet only goes one way: tighter. Registries have been used in first-rank industrialized nations within my parents' lifetimes ... to strip the populace of the one tool that could have saved millions and prevented half a world war. If it could happen there it can happen here.
It is my considered opinion that the antigun lobbyists and their sponsoring organizations are not interested in an honest negotiation. They have their eyes on the result: tightening the Ratchet. If the Constitution stands in the way, they'll walk right through it, as Justice Breyer's dissenting opinion in McDonald v. Chicago bears out. cn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

Canada had a registry, and scrapped it. Looks like that ratchet 'goes both ways'.... lol
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
For the record my intentions were never "guns eww" I own a ton of weapons and I love them all, I think the way to avoid a full on ban is to do something like this fast and give it a shot. Gun lobyist still get sales, Obama and his council become heros, and ultimatly stricter gun laws are enforced. This will not solve violent acts only mary jane can do that(hopefully we can agree on that).

You make an extremely valid point. What better way for legitimate and responsible gun owners to demonstrate to an increasingly concerned public that they ARE responsible than for them to self regulate, for they themselves to call for certain limits to firearms rather than to appear as loony as so many non-gun owners percieve them to be by demanding even more guns and even less regulation.

No right described in our Constitution is limitless. Each is subject to certain regulation and moderation. We have the right to fee speech but we cannot use that speech to incite. We have the right to peaceably assemble but most support the idea of demanding permits in order to do so. We have the right to worship as we please but when that includes denying children life saving transfusions or anti-biotics, the religious right takes a subordinant position. Given this set of reasonable balances between civility and absolute why should the 2nd be the only amendment that should not be tempered by the reality of a modern society?
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
You make an extremely valid point. What better way for legitimate and responsible gun owners to demonstrate to an increasingly concerned public that they ARE responsible than for them to self regulate,
We're not permitted to do this!
!for they themselves to call for certain limits to firearms rather than to appear as loony as so many non-gun owners percieve them to be by demanding even more guns and even less regulation.
Wait. So for self-regulation to register as sensible, it must mean surrendering rights? Why not give the "other direction" a go and recognize that Gun-Free Zones are an ineffective sop to the guns, ewww! proponents? Allow law-abiding residents of the big cities the right to armed defense.
No right described in our Constitution is limitless. Each is subject to certain regulation and moderation. We have the right to fee speech but we cannot use that speech to incite. We have the right to peaceably assemble but most support the idea of demanding permits in order to do so. We have the right to worship as we please but when that includes denying children life saving transfusions or anti-biotics, the religious right takes a subordinant position. Given this set of reasonable balances between civility and absolute why should the 2nd be the only amendment that should not be tempered by the reality of a modern society?
Analogously, we have an increasingly-circumscribed right to own and use guns, but not to use them for crimes. Mean and dumb acts with guns are already comprehensively unlawful. Your insinuation that gun rights are currently not already very heavily "tempered" won't hold water imo. cn

ceterum censeo
Prohibition is never acceptable.
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
You make an extremely valid point. What better way for legitimate and responsible gun owners to demonstrate to an increasingly concerned public that they ARE responsible than for them to self regulate, for they themselves to call for certain limits to firearms rather than to appear as loony as so many non-gun owners percieve them to be by demanding even more guns and even less regulation.

No right described in our Constitution is limitless. Each is subject to certain regulation and moderation. We have the right to fee speech but we cannot use that speech to incite. We have the right to peaceably assemble but most support the idea of demanding permits in order to do so. We have the right to worship as we please but when that includes denying children life saving transfusions or anti-biotics, the religious right takes a subordinant position. Given this set of reasonable balances between civility and absolute why should the 2nd be the only amendment that should not be tempered by the reality of a modern society?
Is the permit to peacefully assemble to make it harder to assemble or because it is needed to ensure something messed up isn't happening? The registration for machine guns was simply to add a burden and for no other reason. Given the shooting was in Connecticut and the guns were legal and registered to a lawful citizen. I fail to see how that would accomplish anything. Safety class? Maybe. License to own gun? Iffy, but perhaps if the state/government HAD to give the license no question asked it would be somewhat reasonable. Registration - NO. As a C&R holder, I can order guns and have them shipped to my house. I get dealer pricing, and I keep a log book of what I buy and sell and to whom (at least the guns that qualify). I don't particularly have an issue with this, but I don't have to do background checks for the guns that qualify. If a license for the owner was reasonable to get and allowed them to not have to get a background check each time then I might consider supporting it, but probably not just because we all know the people who want that sort of thing are doing that as a step towards banning guns and no other reason.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Is the permit to peacefully assemble to make it harder to assemble or because it is needed to ensure something messed up isn't happening? The registration for machine guns was simply to add a burden and for no other reason. Given the shooting was in Connecticut and the guns were legal and registered to a lawful citizen. I fail to see how that would accomplish anything. Safety class? Maybe. License to own gun? Iffy, but perhaps if the state/government HAD to give the license no question asked it would be somewhat reasonable. Registration - NO. As a C&R holder, I can order guns and have them shipped to my house. I get dealer pricing, and I keep a log book of what I buy and sell and to whom (at least the guns that qualify). I don't particularly have an issue with this, but I don't have to do background checks for the guns that qualify. If a license for the owner was reasonable to get and allowed them to not have to get a background check each time then I might consider supporting it, but probably not just because we all know the people who want that sort of thing are doing that as a step towards banning guns and no other reason.
In the interest of preserving the majority of your gun rights, what ARE you willing to do? Anything at all? Do you have a problem with any curtailment of free speech? Those folks who picket funerals of veterans and call everyone fags, should they be in any way controlled? Should in the interest of unfettered right to worship, children be forced in all situations to abide by their parent's decision to withold lifesaving treatment? that permit to assemble could easily be seen as a slippery slope and yet you don't seem to believe it is.


Now again, what, as a gun owner and dealer, are you willing to stand up and advocate for in the way of regulation?
 

rooky1985

Active Member
You make an extremely valid point. What better way for legitimate and responsible gun owners to demonstrate to an increasingly concerned public that they ARE responsible than for them to self regulate, for they themselves to call for certain limits to firearms rather than to appear as loony as so many non-gun owners percieve them to be by demanding even more guns and even less regulation.

No right described in our Constitution is limitless. Each is subject to certain regulation and moderation. We have the right to fee speech but we cannot use that speech to incite. We have the right to peaceably assemble but most support the idea of demanding permits in order to do so. We have the right to worship as we please but when that includes denying children life saving transfusions or anti-biotics, the religious right takes a subordinant position. Given this set of reasonable balances between civility and absolute why should the 2nd be the only amendment that should not be tempered by the reality of a modern society?
I feel that it is better to put a bandaid on the situation rather than let the infection continue, so to speak.
 
Top