The problem I was having was the wild representations by you that igrow products are so unique to horticulture and that no other brand should even be considered. I/we take offense when someone (especially a newbie) comes into the forums swinging. They alone claim to have discovered something that everyone else has missed and/or we have not done our proper due diligence (unlike the poster who so obviously has) in deciding which brand might be better than the others. We've seen it before and it's usually is some manufacturer's rep hype chumming the water in the hopes of making a sale. This approach is not limited to just lighting but we see it with nutes, controllers, tents, you name it, the list goes on. So I post up what my personal experiences have been with the products I use and I read vociferously anything that might benefit my gardens and those that I set up.
In setting up the number of gardens I've done I've had the benefit of being able to meet with a variety of manufacturers directly and get treated to discounts with products that I would buy anyway. Some of those manufacturers (controllers/nutes) only sell through dealer networks so I won't name them here but suffice it to say their products have been thoroughly vetted by me, they deliver consistent results and the factory direct support I get is what drives my loyalty.
Inda-Gro sells online at MSRP and has a healthy dealer/consultant network that they support/protect by not selling retail at levels less than MSRP. It's not the traditional Mfg/Wholesale/Retail relationship but you have to remember that this technology runs in the face of all HID/Florescent replacement lamps business. EFDL as a technology is asking dealers to give up a large chunk of recurring monthly revenue when they sell an Inda-Gro product as it will be warrantied for ten years and during that time the dealer will not be making revenue from relamp business. To get a dealers attention and support means they have to acknowledge that loss of business and than look at their store shelves with tens of thousands of hoods, ducting, AC, HID lamps of all shapes and sizes and say to themselves 'why would I do this to myself?'. Well the dealers are not the innovators. They need to play it safe so that their reputations are secure and they make a profit. It's too easy to just not carry the product by ignoring it, telling inquiring customers that the technology is inferior to what they sell and just so happen to stock (isn't that convenient), that it's Chinese rebranding (as if their HID lamps are not), too expensive, unproven technology, etc etc etc. Coupled with the fact that Alibaba is blowing a certain percentage of factory direct business away from the retailers doors anyway it takes US manufactures getting innovative in not only how to protect those dealers from a China direct sale but to maintain the customers loyalty with the assuarances that their investment is safe in that the dealer and the manufacturer is there to protect their investment should problems occur after the sale.
To those of us, and that would include you too Stevey since you now have posted the pictures to prove it, have been driven to purchase EFDL (in your case from a dealer no less) in the interest of saving money on replacement lamps, lowering monthly utility bills and increasing your crop yield. In checking out your pictures you have an area that you've canted two of the igrow lights over your plants for a total of 800 watts over these plants. There is no reason to do this ever IMO and certainly not on such small plants. This approach is only increasing your cost/sq-m which of course reduces any return on your efforts. This is not even taking into consideration that each of these fixtures would have cost you $1,200.00 ea.., plus add another $375.00 for the alternate veg or bloom lamp that you have to purchase to optimize crop production. That puts your initial product investment for this area at $1,575.00 x 2 = $3,150.00 for a 4 x 4 grow area. At that price they had better outproduce (quality/yield) by at least 50% any other technology on the market. Well if there is truth in advertising perhaps they have. A quick glance at their website would prove that they have something no one else in the world has developed in a two lamp EFDL solution.
Our bulbs have been specifically designed for plant growth, which makes them different than any other bulb on the market. Since different plants have different needs throughout their growth cycles, no one bulb can do it all. That is why we have created two bulbs that will cover each type of plant and both grow cycles, veg and bloom. Every iGROW bulb provides light in a full spectrum of colors for the best results possible. No other bulb manufactured has the quality of light of an iGROW bulb.
You can even buy this special igrow lamp and ballast separately if you prefer for a more affordable price of $850.00.
http://www.igrowlights.com/index.php/product-line
This is all good and one of the reasons I posted up (post no 9) igrow on an alternate thread that was devoted to a wider discussion of induction lighting with links to any company that I had come across in my quest to better understand this technology.
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/551883-induction-lighting-general.html In posting this I made no recommendations and state that it is up to the individual to decide if this technology and a specific brand is right for them and meet their expectations relative to equipment cost/performance and crop production.
So I look for innovation in any industry. Once I've decided on a technology to try for myself the question becomes what sets one brand apart from the other? As that relates to lighting I have been on a ongoing quest to identify the lowest wattage/heat, longest lasting lamps (preferably a single lamp from prop-flower) that are stable spectrum and meet a single cycle ROI. As it relates specifically to EFDL I've tried several brands of lamps and kelvin values to see if those benefits from a multi-lamp solution would outperform the Inda-Gro single lamp solution and in every single case my yields (same strains, same mediums) under multi-lamp were no greater than the single lamp Inda-Gro 420 and in two cases the yields were 20% less with an increase in harvest times which I attribute to plant recalibration to the simultaneious change in spectrums and photoperiod when switching to 'flowering' lamps. That would have been enough for me but I would also add that customer service from China direct is non-existent. When I did have a problem with their shit products the relationship changed from 'Greetings Mr. Chaz' to 'You must have wired it wrong.' BTW the same company is running on another thread here and I'm just crossing my fingers for this guy they hold up. Mine didn't.
I would have expected better warranty service from the US manufacturer but based on what Spliff encountered and what I have found to be the case from US rebranders is that they do not service what they sell. If there is a problem they ignore the complaint, they blame the customer, they create a myriad of paperwork hassles to get the return 'processed', etc etc etc. When that occurs they become no different from the Chinese direct which by the way can usually be purchased for less than 1/2 the price. I'm not saying igrow is a rebrander. If they are working with a major us manufacturer like full spectrum solutions and they have two truly unique lamps devoted to horticultural lighting and as you would hope their patents would indicate than the only thing they may have to do improve upon is treating warranty claims better since forums share these experiences, especially when they are spending the kind of money these products demand.
So what finally got me on to Inda-Gro was the fact that I was only using one lamp from prop-flower, the 420 housing only weighs just north of 15 lbs., 1/3 the thermal contribution when compared to HID, and I met went to their shop to meet the guys, see their in house gardens, the building of the lights, the quality of the components which goes down to the quality of board construction and components used within. As an aside I've got a background in electrical/electronic engineering and you would not believe the shit I saw from China on the power supply side of some of these lights. Some of the lights arrived, poorly pacakaged to begin with, but the main components inside the ballasts, like the EMI filters, large inductor chokes, were not secured well or they used cheap brittle plastic frames and they had come lose from the boards during shipping. This is something I was able to fix, and had to because China was unwilling to take any responsibility but for the average customer this is not going to be within the realm of their capabilities. So it is result of these experiences and the fact that I have a fundamental belief in EFDL that I have developed a relationship with Inda-Gro and their products. At last count I've personally been involved in the sale of several hundred of the 420's and have never taken a single one back due to any of my customers dissatisfaction with their products. Warranty related issues, of which there has been 3, have been handled on my behalf with the customer removing the driver and sending it back to Inda-Gro directly. In all 3 cases the return of the driver was enough for Inda-Gro to cross ship the replacement driver under warranty. When Inda-Gro gets the board back they fix it in house. You can count on your left hand how many manufacturers still do that in the USA.
As to innovation, they have their own in-house gardens, one is a live stream from their home page, that they side by side trial their lights as well as other technologies such as Plasma, LED, CMH and even their own lights against products they are developing such as phosphor improvements, hybridization, controls, that would only be brought to market if their is absolute proof that the benefits are real and verifiable from their own testing. They do this in the open and seek out feedback from not only those of us that are using their products, like me, but also from 'contributors' who are respected and recognizable members of the gardening community who are using their products. Not everyone of these 'contributors' uses solely Inda-Gro either. I've been in some of their gardens where they have mixed IG products with HPS as they insist it is a better spectral blend. In these cases they have nothing to support this belief but old habits do die hard. I always applaud the innovation and if the smoke they proffer is deemed 'better' as a result of this combination who am I to argue?
Further innovations come from the 420-Daylight Harvester (step dimming on a local sensor) series interfaces nicely with the SCADA program and master controller I use for supplemental greenhouse lighting and step dim to meet those crops DLI. This is a feature that no other technology I've encountered can accomplish due to restrike and dimming inefficiencies (lamp life/spectrum stability) and when measured in a cost/sq-m basis has brought supplemental lighting to crops that historically would not have made made it through a cost benefit analysis. That means we're growing a wider diversity of crops in areas that previously would not have been eligible due to financial constraints. Inda-Gro's investment in research towards greenhouse aquaponic gardening is impressive as I've been fortunate to have been invited and toured one of their facilities whereby Darryl (listed within @
http://portablefarms.com/) serves as a contributing vendor to the Daylight Harvester series fixtures and controls that are shipped worldwide as a predesigned modular aquaponic gardening systems. This is cool stuff!
What they are doing with they are currently doing with the 660/730nm diodes is also very cool stuff. The beauty of integrating these technologies for their individual values is IMO going to revolutinize the way we grow plants. That is what these forums should be about SteveyG. I think based on your statements you also believe this to be true. As gardeners some of us have just taken a different approach to this. We are not interested in attacking igrow or making unsubstantiated claims about any of the products we use. We seek truth in the jungle of manufacturer double speak.
The Chinese manufacturer does not respect us as informed consumers, will tell us anything to get us to buy from them and will step over their US 'mfg partner' to do so. They will not stand behind their products and will most certainly take all of igrows hard work and innovation and then take it market at 1/2 the price as their products with their own unverified claims. In fact it's already happening. They added the proprietary igrow on/off switch, special spectrum veg/bloom lamps, quick clip lamp change out and are quoting me as a 'special customer' for $360.00 not including freight. I'm told retail is set @ $440.00.
From here on out I guess it's fallen on you to distinguish igrow from the Chinese direct as increasingly that is the assualt that they will face as their products price out at over 3x the China direct price.
I wish you the best of luck with all your gardens and your investment in igrow SteveyG.
Namaste
