Spin-Out for Chemical Root Pruning

Uncle Ben said:
Excellent solid post Zrod87. I grow most of my own produce so I know what's in it.

The reason why copper hydroxide paints are not harmful to the plant (and therefore people) is that the copper ions do not translocate into the plant. I believe I pointed that out, guess it fell on deaf ears. Don't give a shit what the label says for this particular product because I do not know why it is recommended for non-consumable crops only. I have used copper treated pots for tomatoes, citrus, etc. and am as healthy as a horse. As you pointed out, the ag label industry is a strange one wraught with legalese, mandates, and politics. At least we don't live in Mexico where anything goes.

What really scares me is the organic industry. Now there is a racket. Like cannabis specific products it is largely unregulated and over priced "because they can" take advantage of The Cult of Au Naturel. No one really knows what's in that Super Duper Organic Natural Soil. Some tests by U. of Wash. have revealed high amounts of arsenic or barium, or selenium in some "organic" products.

I use the john to get rid of my wastes and have a complete body chemistry profile analysis about once a year. That is the only way you know if all your bodily functions are healthy is whether or not the 50 or so tests fall within the 'norm'.

UB
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Thanks UB, I also grow as much of my own produce as possible. It really amazes me to see how huch people spend on something that grows from the ground, when with a little preparation could have more than enough for themselves and others.

As far as labeling and usage goes, maybe it's not Mexico but its still pretty Wild West at least around these parts... An almost nonexistent presence of regulation enforcement along with a cavalier attitude sported by most applicators can have extremely large impact on the environment in more ways than most would think. Things like fellers emptying leftover chems into a nearby drainage system, saying that they don't see the difference since they let you spray it on crops....

A majority of the organic food growers in my area typically have WAY more infractions than regular growers, and this is with twice the loopholes and very lax rules around what can be considered an " organic" practice. These people are considered by most prominent community members and growers to be nothing more than wolves in sheeps clothing, not concerned with growing you the healthiest produce but how much extra $ they will make since they signed a contract withan organic buyer with a pretty slogan on the bag.


I still buy stuff at the store! Don't want to make it all sound like poison, we do our best to provide quality and safety to the people who get the final product we grow. If it wasn't for techniques like the one in this thread there wouldn't be all that food on the shelves..

Peace
 
What a great discussion! And haters are going to hate. After reading this long thread i'm happy that i just placed an order for microkote over the weekend! Ive read a lot of UB's informative posts and im going to trust and respect his knowledge. I'm still a greenhorn. After speaking with Jay (from Microkote), he further stated that the Cu does not translocate,and that the other micro nutrients suspended in the coating would be available if the plant needs it. So from what i got from the conversation was the plant Mines out the copper, but the Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese, Iron and Zinc are also available when the root hair hits the container wall, before it has "mined" the copper. Thanks for the info Ben. Keep it real!

microkote.com
(734) 878-1814


This is what i received in an email...

How does the plant get the copper?
The Copper in Microkote is absorbed by the plant roots and held by the root tip. The plant actually "mines" the copper out of the coating. Because the copper is mined the longevity of the coating is determined by the root density adjacent to the container wall. When the plant root tip make contact with Microkote the root tip dissolves a tiny amount of the coating & copper. The copper is absorbed, root elongation stops, apical dominance is broken and lateral root growth is initiated.

What happens to the copper in the root?
The copper is held or sequestered just behind the root tip. At this point the copper is not biologically active because the plant has sealed it off.

Does the copper kill the root tip?
In most woody plants, the root tips are not killed but in a stage of inactive growth. In herbaceous species the tips can be killed but this does not harm the plant because lateral rooting is stimulated.

Does the copper leach out of the container when it is treated with Microkote?
Leaching studies have shown that the copper does not leach from the coating. Water collected out of Microkote Treated containers has the same copper concentrations as the water put into the container.

What happens to the roots when the plant is removed from the container?
Root regeneration from inhibited root tips occurs within 3 - 6 days after the plant has been transplanted into a larger container or landscape plot.

Are the any precautions when handling treated containers?
Treated containers can be handled with bare hands. The dried coating is not any more hazardous then household paint.

How can treated containers be disposed of?
A treated container can be thrown away in any household trash because it is not considered a hazardous waste. Treated containers can also be recycled.

Will Microkote extend the growing time in a container?
Plants in Microkote treated containers can be left in a pot longer before up-canning. The transplanting time period can be extended 1-2 months without decreasing plant quality. Plants still require up-canning at the proper time to ensure full growth and size.
 
Here's a supplier I just received a delivery from.

The product is Microkote; same thing as Spin Out. Copper hydroxide w/ other micronutrients.

www.HorticulturalSpecialties.com

Best to call and order from Jay Adcock, owner. Website orders are charged over 20 bucks for shipping. Got mine shipped for ten bucks by ordering by phone through Jay at 734-395-2869 during typical business hours.

Total was $110.65, w/ $10.00 for shipping and $5.70 in sales tax.

Here's the product: http://www.microkote.com/

I'll be using this in every soilless garden.
 
Chemical root pruning works - completely agree, tried it with soil and coco media. Much greener and healthier plants... less prone to nutrient lockout too :)

i am in the UK, anyone heard of this new Root-prune compound we have over here? Only found it on twitter @ROOTPRUNE
 
Hay uncle Ben I was wondering if you have grown hydroponically? If so do you think that plant growth is similarly as fast when using chem root pruning? I know that my hydro plants grow much faster then my organic soil but I have always wondered if spin out treated pots would compare. Maybe I will give it a try one of these days however I have been considering switching to all hydro....
 
skunky33 said:
Bullshit, both done in optimum con. Hydro grows faster
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Here we go with the hydro versus soil hype. Beachside, good luck with the hydro, and don't forget the electrolytes. Plants crave them.

I have never seen a hydro grower have the vigor or health that begins to compare with my gardens, and I've been posting to cannabis forums for at least 12 years, even before websites/forums were a reality. If you can do this....go for it --> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
 
Uncle Ben said:
Here we go with the hydro versus soil hype. Beachside, good luck with the hydro, and don't forget the electrolytes. Plants crave them.

I have never seen a hydro grower have the vigor or health that begins to compare with my gardens, and I've been posting to cannabis forums for at least 12 years, even before websites/forums were a reality. If you can do this....go for it --> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
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"never seen" does not = "never grown"

statements full of conjecture are not truth.
 
Hahaha electrolytes... Hell yes! This is the first forum I joined and quite recently! I have however been a medical merijuana patient since 1996 and grew up in northern Cali bay area. thus I have seen first hand hundreds and hundreds of grow rooms and outdoor scenes. This site is excellent! I have never been able to find strain info that is picture provin... People around here have gotten into a rut and grow such a small selection of genetics it is sad! Vertigons are the big in thing around here.... I like a nice small horizontal garden. And I really enjoy organic grading and creating an ecosystem. Much like having a reef aquarium :) I am also interested in learning how to push the boundaries with regards to plant growth/ production and ecofriendly gardening. Hydroponics has shown a huge savings in water and nutrient consumption as compared to conventional row ag.

My undergraduate degree is in biology, however my masters is marine bio and unfortunately not horticulture : ) My understanding is thus; enregy is neither made nor destroyed. A system, be it plant or animal, consumes a quantity of energy and then uses said energy to preform a verity of functions. When plants are grown hydroponically the root system is much more efficient then the root system of a soil grown plant. This is because of the abundance of oxygen, water, and nutrient in the solution/surrounding media. No soil can accomplish this ideal. A system saves energy when it doesnt have to work as hard to gather said energy. This is exemplified by the prolific growth of plants utilizing NFT and aeroponics (a very minuscule root system providing for a very large amount of foliage and fruit/flower). This savings in energy is transferred to growth in foliage/fruit.

Plant growth is a product of a group of limiting factors. While growing in ambient atmospheric conditions many times the limiting factor is a lack of Light shortly followed by lack of Co2 (or the converse). Temperature and humidity fall into this group but are easily controlled. With all other limiting factors taken in to account for it is the water:oxygen:nutrient that becomes the issue. While a proficient gardener is able to judge the moisture level and achieve a near perfect ratio, that ratio is available only for a specific amount of time between waterings. With hydroponics one is able to achieve the ideal consistently through the plants life, morning noon and night, 24/7. This puts us back to light, temperature and Co2 which can now be increased for much faster growth.

I am not tring to start a flame war but I am a scientist first and foremost. There is much and well documented research on the limiting factors experienced by plants. I was looking for specie specific personal experience as this particular plant has had very little scholarly research applied.

Thanks and all the best!
 
Uncle Ben I wanted to thank you and I hope that didn't come off rude! I sometimes slip into professor mode and start lecturing... Sorry!

I am definitely going to give microkote a try an my next plants it looks definitely looks beneficial (although I have been wondering how it might affect beneficial micro-organisms... But then if there is no run off there would be no issue) and I read about this stuff forever ago and always wanted to try but could never find spin out so I'm extremely excited about microkote!
thanks again and cheers!
 
Uncle Ben said:
Here we go with the hydro versus soil hype. Beachside, good luck with the hydro, and don't forget the electrolytes. Plants crave them.

I have never seen a hydro grower have the vigor or health that begins to compare with my gardens, and I've been posting to cannabis forums for at least 12 years, even before websites/forums were a reality. If you can do this....go for it --> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
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I'm not hyping anything. I'm stating a simple fact. What does anything you've just posted have to do with the statement at hand? You expect people to just to accept what you say as if it comes from the mouth of god because you've been posting for 12 years, sounds like a pretty childish argument to me. The truth still remains hydro grows faster than soil in optimum conditions. It's just a scientific fact. "If you can do this.... go for it"? how old are you 12?
 
skunky33 said:
I'm not hyping anything. I'm stating a simple fact. What does anything you've just posted have to do with the statement at hand? You expect people to just to accept what you say as if it comes from the mouth of god because you've been posting for 12 years, sounds like a pretty childish argument to me. The truth still remains hydro grows faster than soil in optimum conditions. It's just a scientific fact. "If you can do this.... go for it"? how old are you 12?
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I'm in my sixties and was growing pot before you were born. Have also grown about every kind of plant material for over 40 years.

Let's see your garden, son. Let's see if it begins to compare with the link I gave you. I've witnessed hundreds of hydro grows, many failures.....lucky to have 6" tall plants by the 6th week.

Doing 'dro may sound cool to da kids, but it usually ends up in marginal or failed production.

This is a soil culture technique. Get with the program.

UB
 
Beachside said:
Uncle Ben I wanted to thank you and I hope that didn't come off rude! I sometimes slip into professor mode and start lecturing... Sorry!

I am definitely going to give microkote a try an my next plants it looks definitely looks beneficial (although I have been wondering how it might affect beneficial micro-organisms... But then if there is no run off there would be no issue) and I read about this stuff forever ago and always wanted to try but could never find spin out so I'm extremely excited about microkote!
thanks again and cheers!
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You're fine. The only way you're gonna know about the effect on microbes is via a lab using a electron microscope. Since none of us have that luxury, we usually let feelings cloud our judgement. I've grown many a plant in copper hydroxide treated pots and they all have done fine - citrus, tomatoes, cannabis, oaks, etc.

Facts before feelings,
Uncle Ben
 
I don't care if you're 150 years old it doesn't make you right. Hydroponics have been around for centuries so it's not just the "kids" doing it. You said you grow faster than any hydro which is bullshit. So, I'm commenting on you're bullshit. Oh, and whomever posted this originally wrote plainly "originally posted by Ben" before and after the topic. You're a miserable arrogant person for doing what you did, saying they stole your work, which is a complete lie. They never claimed it as theirs! I'm not even adopting hydro as a preferred method, I'm just stating simple fact which you can't dispute, so you act like a child.
 
Skunky- relax and read the whole post before attacking people.

Uncle Ben are you not familiar with beneficial bacteria/fungus/nematodes? A sub-par high school microscope is all you need to make bacterial counts. measuring fungal strands or or making a nematode count would be quite the overkill on an SEM. I would highly suggest reading Dr. Elaine Ingham's books "The Soil Biology Primer", "The Soil Food Web", "The Compost Tea Brewing Manual 5th" and "Compost Tea Quality: Light Microscope Methods". Dr. Ingham is the worlds top soil microbiologist. She has pioneered much of the field. I took more then a few of her courses at Oregon state before she moved to Australia.
 
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