Astir Grow Led Panel Project...

[stardustsailor]

It was only because i was too stupid to understand the red/blue/blurple debate Psuagro....

.....And then the King said to the Fool :
-Go deep in the woods ,find the sacred cave and fetch me the Wise ...
And then the Fool ,left the castle....
And he thought ,as he was entering the deep dark forest :
-Huh...Power is sending Madness ,to fetch Wisdom.....
And then a flower smilled at him....

 

[stardustsailor]

[SIZE=+1]BRIEF SUMMARY[/SIZE]

[0006] In accordance with one aspect of the present disclosure, a light emitting device for producing radiation optimized for plant growth is provided. The light emitting device comprises at least one LED chip having a peak wavelength disposed on a support, a phosphor material radiationally coupled to the at least one LED chip. The phosphor materials are capable of absorbing at least a portion of the radiation from the at least one LED chip and emitting light of a second wavelength. The light emitting device further includes an optical element at least partially covering the at least one LED chip and support. The light emitting device is capable of uniformly mixing the red and blue radiation to produce pink radiation.

[0007] In accordance with another aspect of the present disclosure, a light emitting device for producing radiation customized for plant growth. The light emitting device comprises at least one of a blue and near UV emitting LED chip having a peak wavelength of between 400 nm-490 nm disposed on a support, at least one red emitting LED chip having a peak wavelength of between 600 nm-700 nm disposed on the support, and an optical element at least partially covering the at least one LED chip and support. The light emitting device is capable of uniformly mixing the red and blue radiation to produce pink radiation.

[0008] In accordance with yet another aspect of the present disclosure, a white light emitting device producing radiation customized for plant growth. The white light emitting device includes at least one of a blue and near UV LED chip having a peak wavelength from 400 nm-490 nm disposed on a support, and a phosphor material comprising a blend of one or more of blue, green, yellow, and red phosphors radiationally coupled to one or more of said at least one LED chip. The phosphor materials are capable of absorbing at least a portion of the radiation from the at least one LED chip and emitting light of a second wavelength. The white light emitting device further includes an optical element at least partially covering the at least one LED chip and support. The white light emitting device is capable of uniformly mixing the various radiations.

Time for...
Next Gen ....

 

[tenthirty]

@tenthirty......wow at that price $450 without the ballast??? that's a damn shame, really liked the "allbright" system; puts it off the table for allot of growers. I wonder why they suggest two allbrights for a 3x3 tray, seems like overkill to me........


So who's going to a test run with an all warm white panel????? Chronikool's grows have me believing this may work wonderfully.......

Yupers, at 450 a pop, $900 total for my 3x3, it looks like the HML is going to win out. Not to discount the allbright, because I really wanted to try it out.

My latest HML is roughly 60% nw and 40% ww 9 XM-l's and 9 XP-G's running < 90 watts. IMHO the HML's obviously outperform everything else in my garden.

The white light emitting device is capable of uniformly mixing the various radiations.

Quantum physics
Information is never lost. (how can you see the plants, stars, galaxies if the light mixes?)

Also, a photon, travels at the speed of light. (infinite mass). You're not going to change the direction of the photons in free space, not easy!!
What you will get though is harmonics and interference waves. That is what the atmosphere and distance from the sun do for us.

White leds will provide for closer harmonic spacing, but mixed with discrete frequency's of light, spectrum and amplitude are going to lack uniformity at any given point in space time.

Thus, using all broadband leds. aka whites.

 

[guod]

don´t try this in your tent..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_lens
http://astro.berkeley.edu/~jcohn/lens.html

Also, a photon, travels at the speed of light. (infinite mass). You're not going to change the direction of the photons in free space, not easy!!
What you will get though is harmonics and interference waves.

 

[tenthirty]

Oh no, I would only do that inside my Tardis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARDIS

 

[guod]

I use my timetunnel and found this...

 

[stardustsailor]

I use my timetunnel and found this...
View attachment 2415341

LOL! ....
Yeap! Wind is always changing...
Nowdays ,I'm thinking....
"Why have blues & reds on different chips ?
Ok ,keep the CW/WW but maybe combining blue chips (c.445 & c. 455 ) ,
with some nice nitride phosphors ( 620-670 ) ,is better ..."

B+R in one led ! <=pink,violet ,purple,magenta,whatever ..
Ok,there are some drawbacks (power losses from phosphor & silicone filling ) ,
but the gains (uniform B+R light ) ,might be "shadowing" those "drawbacks"....

....

I wonder.....

PS : 8 x 670 vs 4 x 640 ? ....
Based in RQE values of 640 & 660-670 nm light ,
it should've been the other way around ...
What about even ? ....6x 640 & 6 x 670 ?

Afterall, 640 light is harvested from both the chlorophylls ..More or less...
While 660-670 harvested only by ChA .....Mainly...
...
And the "treasure" is burried deep in the jungle ,of Shade Adaptation Islands ,also.....

Guod,I want to test only phosphor leds (only InGaN dies ..)...

As few as four different ones....
..
Those two as the "basis" ones ===> ..& ...
Those two, as more "photosynthesis targeted" ones ....==>

-AlGaAsP. The older one, is used mostly in deep red leds (>650nm) and IR (infrared) today.

-AlInGaP. Used in modern red, orange and yellow leds.

-InGaN. Stand for Indium and Gallium (Ga) Nitride (N). Its used on blue, green and UV chips, as well as in white leds, which uses a blue or sometimes a UV chip covered with phosphors. Most of the research is about this tech, which is improving very fast.

 

[stardustsailor]

2nd day on 12.30' / 11.30 ' ....
..

 

[PetFlora]

I use my timetunnel and found this...
View attachment 2415341

Very creative!

For clarification...

is that a 'now' route, or a 'new' route?

And why not CW/WW/670 1:2:1, with 670 on a separate circuit?

 

[stardustsailor]

Very creative! For clarification... is that a 'now' route, or a 'new' route?

It's new & now.... Next order of(custom-made) leds is going to be very carefully designed..
Still leds are going to be manufactured by our dear asian friend...
But ,this time he has some challenging work to do....
... Then some panels will be made and tested all over again...
Stardust Odyssey...
Who cares for Ithaca ?
It's the voyage that matters most .... ......

And why not CW/WW/670 1:2:1, with 670 on a separate circuit?

Why ? 10-30 said it ,really fine,there....

White leds will provide for closer harmonic spacing, but mixed with discrete frequency's of light, spectrum and amplitude are going to lack uniformity at any given point in space time. Thus, using all broadband leds. aka whites.

See the spectra of a common pink led (not designed for plant growth)...

 

[stardustsailor]

According to the second type of leds in the patent ...

[0007] In accordance with another aspect of the present disclosure, a light emitting device for producing radiation customized for plant growth. The light emitting device comprises at least one of a blue and near UV emitting LED chip having a peak wavelength of between 400 nm-490 nm disposed on a support, at least one red emitting LED chip having a peak wavelength of between 600 nm-700 nm disposed on the support, and an optical element at least partially covering the at least one LED chip and support. The light emitting device is capable of uniformly mixing the red and blue radiation to produce pink radiation.

Those might have something to offer....

 

[PetFlora]

See the spectra of a common pink led (not designed for plant growth)... And why not CW/WW/670 1:2:1, with 670 on a separate circuit?

I've had 2 cups of coffee, but I am missing how this graph answers my question...

 

[stardustsailor]

Look...In the combo of CW/WW/670 1:2:1...
First thing I do not ..like ....is the deep red led...In fact , I do not want any red chips there at all,anymore....
(neither blues "in cabriolet".... )

I wish to test a mixture of 4 different leds ,each one emitting a " continuous spectral graph curve " from 400 to ..i.e. 750 nm ....
Each different led containing all wavelengths in between....
More homogeneous light ....
Better chips,also there...


Funny...
If you look at those four "shades" you can see kinda the "sunrise" ,"sunset","noon","morning",natural sun's shades...
Just saying...
Maybe 4 different adjustable channels there.. ?

Pinks A + B ,cools and custom Warm Whites ?


( "Burning Hot "whites,actually....
As low temp (as red ) as possible..
Full Width of Half Maximum somewhere at 60 nm .......
Starting from 620 up to 680 nm ,regarding the red peak's Rel.power over 50% .... )

 

[PetFlora]

I only mentioned 670 to be on a separate circuit, just in case, as a lot of growers seem to think the 650+ range is somehow magical

Personally,I think the Cree NW probably does 90%+ of what we want, but we may want a bit more WW during flower

 

[stardustsailor]

Well ,here we disagree ...
NW is a ...way "shade adaptive light "....(Much green / yellow there.... )
NW can be very useful (my humble opinion,only) in R+B actinic combos as a "filler",providing wls that are missing ,
specially for older leaves....
-And if in case ,the R+B actinic combo is of great power ,NW's green wls helps to "slow down " PS a bit ,
preventing light saturation, photoinhibition and photorespiration,coming too soon ....

To build a light based on NW mainly ,I do not think is going to be so productive... ( large quantities of reds are missing ...)

Neither if based mainly on CW ...High trichome/terpene (quality bud ) production there ,but way too compact plants with low PS daily rates (low final yields )

WW leds can grow really fine plants ,even if used solely...The warmer,the more quantity (biomass) production (..and streching ..the other side of coin... )

So...
The new way...
2 pinks as "spotshooters" for the 2 photosystems and chlorophylls ..
Burning hot warm whites for all the orange/red/deep red /far red wls needed at a "bulk " ....
Some Cool whites for the blues/greens/yellows ...
All of them emitting "continuous curve " light...
All of them having blue ,green,yellow,red,deep red,far red...
And their combo is better " bound" together ,in a way..
...

Crazy,eh ?

I've a strange feelin' that ,it would be somethin' reaaaaallyyyy gooooood.....

 

[PetFlora]

Far be it from me to argue. Perhaps you can explain this Cree SPDG overlay of CW, NW, WW

 

[stardustsailor]

Ok I'll give it a try...
For NW (green line ).....
.....
Blues 400-499 nm :

Blues are peaking at 100 % of led's RP.
(this means some blue wls are the " dominant " wl range -the maximum power "point "-relative power per nm - is there .... )
Peak is at (approx ) 445 nm ..( ChA harvesting these photons ,there,regarding PS ...)
FWHM( full width of half maximum power ) of blues is approx -really roughly- 25 nm ....
Starting from 430-435 up to 450-455 nm(so ...ChB also harvests photons here.... )
Blues are generally at a nice sweet point.... But their relative power is relative high,concentrated at a ' tight ' wl range ....
Overall power of blues is moderate... (approx half of red's overall power )



Greens 500-599 nm :
Ohhhhh...!!!!
Here the FWHM starts from 525 (roughly) up to 599 nm !!! approx 75 nm ...
Peaking around 85+% of RP ,at somewhere the 575-585 nm range ....
The "surface" of greens is largest ....
Most led's power is at this range of 500-599 nm ....

Reds 600-699nm :
FWHM of 50 nm ...
Peak at 85 % at 600 nm ,falling to less than 20% at 699 nm ...
Not much power at area 640-660 nm ....
Blues & Greens are counteracting maximum RQE wls & PS rates/yields are decreasing ....
Plus extreme Shade avoidance /photomorphogenic and phototropic "reactions", may occur...
More red (620-680 nm ) is needed there for sure....
And a bit more of FR,maybe...

 

[guod]

Ok I'll give it a try...

failed...

this is a relative spectrum output chart.
for absolute values you need the power-output of your bin to scale this curves.

example:
highest bin for cree XP-e
cw=R2=114lm
nw=Q4=100lm
ww=P4=80,6lm

an absolute spectrum output with this number looks more like this...
View attachment 2415531
and now your Peak at 85 % for 600 nm is meltig away.

 

[stardustsailor]

Guod,I'm havin' some trouble seeing the attached pic... Wait a min... Relative power is not the power per nanometer relative to overall absolute power ? Am I mistaken ,here ? From graph ,there is no way ,to find out the absolute power... (And you can not relate-not that easy,at least.. - absolute Photometric values ,with a relative radiometric* graph.... Only radiometric values ... I.e . It may be that both CW & NW have the same radiometric output .. But human eye senses CW as the brightest from the two ,thus it has more lumens from NW .... Lumens does not apply (directly,at least) to this radiometric graph...) But the Rel.Power spectral graph , is a good way to see/comprehend , how the ( percentage of ) absolute radiant radiometric power,it is distributed relatively per nanometer.... 100 % rel. Power, means that the particular wl having a value of 100% R.P. , has the highest absolute value ,relatively to the rest wls .... So 85 % red means that this point(wl) of red has 85% of the power of the most powerful wl (being c.455 blue , at the example...).. So if overall absolute output power is 400 mW and at 455nm is 10mW (100 % RP ) ,then at red 600nm is 8.5 mW..... I do not think ,that I'm wrong there... Summed up from 400 to c.750 nm ,all the r.powers ,make up the total overall output power.. Meaning that ,all the surface that is inside(enclosed by ) the curve ,makes i.e 400 mW (if that is the total absolute power ,let's say..)...... *If the graph was for rel .photometric power , beyond 700 nm the curve ,would have been a flat line at zero ..... Same goes for light below 400 nm ....

 

[stardustsailor]

-Does anybody know ,why my text editor disappeared ? All these little buttons..... gone... Maybe I did something accidently ... WTF ? ....