Thc ( bad ) –cbd (good ) ?

[Cory and trevor]

You have CBD and CBN mixed up. CBN is the byproduct of THC degadation.

yep, I knew it I need to watch and read again LOL.

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

yep, I knew it I need to watch and read again LOL.

When you guys a having your tests done I assume you are having your dried buds tested , has anyone extracted oil and then had the oil tested ?
I am trying to understand this by breaking things down into 3 groups , oil ingestion , oil vaporizing , and smoking , and also the extraction of oil for ingestion and vaporizing .

 

[tomcatjones]

BOTH ARE GOOD.

depends on why you want to use them for.

 

[tomcatjones]

When you guys a having your tests done I assume you are having your dried buds tested , has anyone extracted oil and then had the oil tested ?
I am trying to understand this by breaking things down into 3 groups , oil ingestion , oil vaporizing , and smoking , and also the extraction of oil for ingestion and vaporizing .

what about it? have questions? can try to answer. sort of on board with cannalytics, so i can contact the testers at least.

 

[tomcatjones]

also.. any chemists in here?

everybody has high THC strains.. . . WELL.. i need to figure a way to dehydrogenate high THC solution so that we can isomerize to CBD.

it should be very simple. i just need to figure out the catalyst to break and remove that hydrogen atom to make THC into CBD.

scour the web and i can turn CBD into THC no problem.. just a few cyclizations.. BUT.. i want to take all of our high THC and turn it into CBD.

so yeah guys i'm going to start driving around the north to pick up and courier samples to lansing for cannalytics, mostly a good opportunity for me to meet a bunch of people and gathering genetics and info. as well as educating the growers on quality and all that

 

[Huel Perkins]

also.. any chemists in here?

everybody has high THC strains.. . . WELL.. i need to figure a way to dehydrogenate high THC solution so that we can isomerize to CBD.

it should be very simple. i just need to figure out the catalyst to break and remove that hydrogen atom to make THC into CBD.

scour the web and i can turn CBD into THC no problem.. just a few cyclizations.. BUT.. i want to take all of our high THC and turn it into CBD.

so yeah guys i'm going to start driving around the north to pick up and courier samples to lansing for cannalytics, mostly a good opportunity for me to meet a bunch of people and gathering genetics and info. as well as educating the growers on quality and all that

I've never heard of turning CBD into THC or turning THC into CBD, can you provide more info on this???

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

what about it? have questions? can try to answer. sort of on board with cannalytics, so i can contact the testers at least.

I’m just in the beginning stages of understanding , so most questions at this stage may sound dumb to you at this stage . I’m wondering why big pharma is going for a 50/50 mixture and also the growers are trying to come up with a 50/50 plant , when it comes to the oil I would think having oil that’s almost all THC and oil that’s almost all CBD would be good because then a person could then mix the oil to get various oils for various effects . But when it comes to smoking a different process would be best . I have been following your posts and am amazed at the amount of good your going to do for mankind . What do you think about Everclear and distillation for reclaim process ?

 

[tomcatjones]

I’m just in the beginning stages of understanding , so most questions at this stage may sound dumb to you at this stage . I’m wondering why big pharma is going for a 50/50 mixture and also the growers are trying to come up with a 50/50 plant , when it comes to the oil I would think having oil that’s almost all THC and oil that’s almost all CBD would be good because then a person could then mix the oil to get various oils for various effects . But when it comes to smoking a different process would be best . I have been following your posts and am amazed at the amount of good your going to do for mankind . What do you think about Everclear and distillation for reclaim process ?

...i'm in the beginning of understanding too man... matter of perspective and i don't see the end yet. but i'm loving it

big pharma: well the only one we can really look to is GW pharmaceuticals and i do heavily. why do they do 1:1? why they chose it to be honest i have no idea, but it is logically the place to start considering they had tried 1:0 for so long. but it all has to do with what you are targeting. cancer? ms symptoms? arthritis? seizures? the funny thing about Sativex is that it is approved in different countries for different reasons. BUT if you guys haven't seen the horrors from the alcohol spray you should. the stuff is poison. Sativex is terrible. but as a jumping point for ratios it's a good start. the reason i said seizures... any amount of THC in some people can trigger them and this is bad, unless mitigated. but remember the flavonoids that i love to talk about? they can help mitigate or exacerbate the effects of THC and CBD. so this is where i like to play around an am interested.

i love your idea of having separate elements to mix together, THC here and CBD here... this is what i would want in the future. but as far as breeding goes and how plants are there is a lot of variables in my mind. for instance... does a plant bred with no thc fight pests to same? i doubt it. there is a lot to tackle here being a grower and one who wants to most out of this plant medicinally.

but here is a true fact: hemp grown in the northern and southern parts of the earth have more CBD content, those grown with high UV conditions have higher THC content. it would also make some sense that those living in the north may benefit more from the CBD over THC. your needs medicinally will be different than the persons' who has been living in the equator, where he will benefit from a higher THC.

i took their (GW pharma) hypothesis that most auto-immune diseases are endocannabinoid deficiencies (alzheimer's, MS, parkinson's etc) couple with Dr. Melamede's harm reduction paradox -> http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/2/1/17 to really evaluate EVERYTHING. everything i look at is now through a filter with this type of approach in mind.

also you've probably heard me big on juicing - not just raw cannabis but also fruits and vegetables as per Max Gerson therapy, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvzDHGLEUyw or more recently Fat Sick and Nearly Dead. found here.. http://www.hulu.com/watch/289122

this is because of the flavonoids and terpenes that both our food and cannabis have.

CANNABINOIDS ARE CANNABIS SPECIFIC FLAVONOIDS.

it is in my mind that they all work together to signal between the CNS and your Immune system.

was reading a paper the other night on CBD from the 90s.. they were SOOOOOOOO confused as to why CBD was working on inflammatory responses but not much antagonism on the Cb1 or Cb2.. welll i'm sitting here yelling at the computer wishing to go back in time to tell them the vanilloid receptor is where they need to be looking, then i realized the process science has taken to get me this info on a computer, lol. so... what the fuck am i talking about?

seizures for example.. give a person prone to them some cayenne pepper and you'll send them into a frenzy i'm sure. but that will act a neuroprotectant for others (something i fancy a lot). CBD for me, mixed with cayenne and other flavonoids reduced inflammation they work on the same receptor, vanilla included if you couldn't have guessed it. but if i gave the same coconut cap for me to an epileptic, they'd go off and i could kill'em.

there is no silver bullet to everyone's health is what i'm getting at. there is however an individual's homeostasis that occurs through diet and cannabis use. cannabis is a regulator. (read Melamede's paper)


everclear is awesome for novices or those worried about solvents left over. best for the consumer in that sense. distillation also.. REALLY awesome. not just for the reclaim, though some don't agree with me, i believe you get a purer or cleaner product.

 

[tomcatjones]

I've never heard of turning CBD into THC or turning THC into CBD, can you provide more info on this???

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080221339#ixzz0zyv0sqUL

also more i read...

6.3 Isomerization ~
The potency of marijuana can be increased by about 50% simply by simmering a water slurry of the material for 2 hours. Add water as necessary to maintain the level. Cool and filter the mixture, and refrigerate the aqueous solution. Dry the leaf material at low heat. Drink the tea before smoking the marijuana. The effects are much more intense and last longer than those from the untreated leaves. The boiling water treatment isomerizes the inactive CBD, and decarboxylates THCA to THC.
Although Cannabidiol (CBD) has no psychoactivity, it does antagonize THC and produces other valuable sedative, antibiotic, and anti-epileptic effects. CBD can be isomerized to THC. If the plant is Phenotype III (containing mainly CBD in its resin), isomerization can double the yield of THC.
The CBD fraction of column chromatography can be distilled (bp 187-190° C/2 mm; pale yellow resin) to purify it. Isomerization can be accomplished with any of several solvents and acids. Alcohol and sulfuric acid isomerizes only 50-60% of CBD to THC; p-TolueneSulfonic Acid (p-TSA) in petroleum ether or other light, non-polar solvent will convert 90% of CBD to THC upon refluxing 1 hour at 130° F. (16, 17)
Reflux 3 gr CBD in 100 ml dry benzene for 2 hours with 200 mg p-TSA monohydrate until the alkaline Beam test (5% KOH in ethanol) is negative (no color). The Beam test gives a deep violet color with CBD. Separate the upper layer, wash it with 5% sodium bicarbonate, wash again with water, and strip the solvent. The remaining viscous oil should give a negative reaction to the Beam test. The crude THC can be purified by distillation (bp 169-172° C/0.03 mm), or by chromatography in 25 ml pentane on 300 gr alumina. Elute with pentane 95:5 ether to yield fraction of CBD and THC. Combine the THC fractions and distill (bp 175-178° C/1 mm).
Reflux 2 gr CBD in 35 ml cyclohexane, and slowly add a few drops of sulfuric acid. Continue to reflux until the Beam test is negative. Separate the sulfuric acid from the reaction mixture. Wash the solution twice with aqueous sodium bicarbonate, the twice again with water. Purify by chromatography, or distill (bp 165° C/0.01 mm). Any unreacted CBD can be recycled.
Another method is to reflux a mixture of 6 gr dry pyridine hydrochloride and 3 gr CBD at 125° C until the Beam test is negative. Wash the reaction mixture with water to remove the pyridine, then extract the mixture with ether. Wash the ether with water, evaporate the ether, and distill the residue i.v. to yield pure THC.
Similarly, reflux 3 gr CBD in 150 ml ethanol with 50 ml 85% phosphoric acid until the Beam test is negative. Work up the reaction mixture, and purify the THC.
Alternatively, reflux 3 gr CBD in 100 ml absolute ethanol containing 0.05% HCl for 19 hours. Extract the ether, wash the ether with water, dry, evaporate, and chromatograph on 400 gr alumina to yield:
(a) 0.5 gr 1-EthoxyHexaHydro-CBN (EHH-CBN: mp 86-87° C); elute with pentane 98:2 ether. Recrystalize from methanol and water.
(b) 2 gr THC; elute with pentane 95:5 ether. Repeated chromatography will separate the less polar forms.
(c) 0.5 gr EHH-CBN, eluted with pentane 93:7 ether. It can be isomerized to THC by refluxing in benzene for 2 hours. Cool the reaction mixture, wash it with water; separate, dry, and strip the solvent layer i.v. to yield THC.
CBD also can be isomerized by irradiation of a cyclohexane solution in a quartz vessel with a mercury lamp (235-265 nm) for 20 minutes. Workup of the reaction mixture yields 7-13% THC.(18-20)

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080221339#ixzz0zyv0sqUL

also more i read...

6.3 Isomerization ~
The potency of marijuana can be increased by about 50% simply by simmering a water slurry of the material for 2 hours. Add water as necessary to maintain the level. Cool and filter the mixture, and refrigerate the aqueous solution. Dry the leaf material at low heat. Drink the tea before smoking the marijuana. The effects are much more intense and last longer than those from the untreated leaves. The boiling water treatment isomerizes the inactive CBD, and decarboxylates THCA to THC.
Although Cannabidiol (CBD) has no psychoactivity, it does antagonize THC and produces other valuable sedative, antibiotic, and anti-epileptic effects. CBD can be isomerized to THC. If the plant is Phenotype III (containing mainly CBD in its resin), isomerization can double the yield of THC.
The CBD fraction of column chromatography can be distilled (bp 187-190° C/2 mm; pale yellow resin) to purify it. Isomerization can be accomplished with any of several solvents and acids. Alcohol and sulfuric acid isomerizes only 50-60% of CBD to THC; p-TolueneSulfonic Acid (p-TSA) in petroleum ether or other light, non-polar solvent will convert 90% of CBD to THC upon refluxing 1 hour at 130° F. (16, 17)
Reflux 3 gr CBD in 100 ml dry benzene for 2 hours with 200 mg p-TSA monohydrate until the alkaline Beam test (5% KOH in ethanol) is negative (no color). The Beam test gives a deep violet color with CBD. Separate the upper layer, wash it with 5% sodium bicarbonate, wash again with water, and strip the solvent. The remaining viscous oil should give a negative reaction to the Beam test. The crude THC can be purified by distillation (bp 169-172° C/0.03 mm), or by chromatography in 25 ml pentane on 300 gr alumina. Elute with pentane 95:5 ether to yield fraction of CBD and THC. Combine the THC fractions and distill (bp 175-178° C/1 mm).
Reflux 2 gr CBD in 35 ml cyclohexane, and slowly add a few drops of sulfuric acid. Continue to reflux until the Beam test is negative. Separate the sulfuric acid from the reaction mixture. Wash the solution twice with aqueous sodium bicarbonate, the twice again with water. Purify by chromatography, or distill (bp 165° C/0.01 mm). Any unreacted CBD can be recycled.
Another method is to reflux a mixture of 6 gr dry pyridine hydrochloride and 3 gr CBD at 125° C until the Beam test is negative. Wash the reaction mixture with water to remove the pyridine, then extract the mixture with ether. Wash the ether with water, evaporate the ether, and distill the residue i.v. to yield pure THC.
Similarly, reflux 3 gr CBD in 150 ml ethanol with 50 ml 85% phosphoric acid until the Beam test is negative. Work up the reaction mixture, and purify the THC.
Alternatively, reflux 3 gr CBD in 100 ml absolute ethanol containing 0.05% HCl for 19 hours. Extract the ether, wash the ether with water, dry, evaporate, and chromatograph on 400 gr alumina to yield:
(a) 0.5 gr 1-EthoxyHexaHydro-CBN (EHH-CBN: mp 86-87° C); elute with pentane 98:2 ether. Recrystalize from methanol and water.
(b) 2 gr THC; elute with pentane 95:5 ether. Repeated chromatography will separate the less polar forms.
(c) 0.5 gr EHH-CBN, eluted with pentane 93:7 ether. It can be isomerized to THC by refluxing in benzene for 2 hours. Cool the reaction mixture, wash it with water; separate, dry, and strip the solvent layer i.v. to yield THC.
CBD also can be isomerized by irradiation of a cyclohexane solution in a quartz vessel with a mercury lamp (235-265 nm) for 20 minutes. Workup of the reaction mixture yields 7-13% THC.(18-20)

Wow Tom that will give me a lot to study , I had talked to 8/7 and you had said you would soon be talking to Rick Simpson , how did that go ?

I see where most all extractions are being done with a flush method instead of a soak , because of the chlorophyll , when I read up on the chlorophyll I see nothing but good for the body , and I remember Mom taking chlorophyll supplements ( she was into health foods big time ) . Question is why would they not want the chlorophyll ? , I can see it when people Vapor or smoke but not if it is going to be ingested ? . I am still stuck down here in Florida so I can’t play with the different extraction processes , I did get up there to MI last month and did try the oil for 10 days and I’m totally convinced it’s the right way to go , bought me a van today , I’m going to convert it into a camper and then head back up there , I took a flight up last month and it really sucked not having any transportation .
We also juice veg’s all the time , started doing it when my wife got cancer , it seems to help her more than me , I think that’s because of of the damage I have to my liver and kidneys from 5 years of pain meds Well I’ll start to go over the links you sent . Thanks

Huel Perkins , I read that it can be done , but I'm not educated enough yet to understand the process .

 

[abe supercro]

part of the chlorophyll issue is a potent unpleasant taste. nice going picking up a van. having a vehicle you can camp in is a plus.

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

part of the chlorophyll issue is a potent unpleasant taste. nice going picking up a van. having a vehicle you can camp in is a plus.

that's what I thought about the chlorophyll , so maybe ( oil for ingestion ) the Chlorophyll would be a plus . Yes being in a camper will be much better I hope , its old but it was cheap the mileage is a bit much 268,000 but what the heck it fits me well ( old and worn out ) . When I was up there last month I thought I would get some help from my family in Bryan Ohio but that did not pan out , they didn't want anything to do with helping me getting into growing MM , all my life I thought I was the misfit in the family but now I think I had it wrong , Maybe I'm OK and they are the misfits . I went to church with them both weeks I was there and me talking to the preacher about MM didn't help much . My brother in law did take me up to Hillsdale , and I did get to try ( thanks to a real cool site member ) the oil for 10 days only apx. .15 grams per day , not enough to do much good but still enough to get an idea of what to expect .

 

[tomcatjones]

we've talked about the chlorophyll being beneficial and it's very plausible. it is an anti oxidant and i'm all for it. HOWEVER... in oil.. i'm not.

you should be getting more than enough chlorophyll in your diet of raw cannabis and fruits/veggies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA0z0qfMZ_Q

here is the interview we did with Rick Simpson. glad you remembered!

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

we've talked about the chlorophyll being beneficial and it's very plausible. it is an anti oxidant and i'm all for it. HOWEVER... in oil.. i'm not.

you should be getting more than enough chlorophyll in your diet of raw cannabis and fruits/veggies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA0z0qfMZ_Q

Thanks I'll check it out , I was just watching this guy on Utube , uses Lemon juice ?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Sz8p1MWL8&feature=related&noredirect=1

 

[tomcatjones]

we've talked about the chlorophyll being beneficial and it's very plausible. it is an anti oxidant and i'm all for it. HOWEVER... in oil.. i'm not.

you should be getting more than enough chlorophyll in your diet of raw cannabis and fruits/veggies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA0z0qfMZ_Q

Thanks I'll check it out , I was just watching this guy on Utube , uses Lemon juice ?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Sz8p1MWL8&feature=related&noredirect=1

that guy is just taking Hemp oil and infusing it. .similar to making butter or coconut oil.. better off making RSO first then mixing it

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

that guy is just taking Hemp oil and infusing it. .similar to making butter or coconut oil.. better off making RSO first then mixing it

yes I agree completely , I was just curious about the lemon juice and wondering what action it would have on the plant material . Thanks for the link to the Rick Simpson interview my wife will like seeing that tomorrow . That is one fine group of people . Rick Simpson is an amazing guy .

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

Tom what do you think about this ? MM plant ( Has to have the proper amount of Hydrogen + ions available ) Extraction transporter ( has to have a different Hydrogen + ion available ) Body uptake ( has to be at yet another Hydrogen + ion available) All three are depentent on the Power of Hydrogen or as we call it ( the Ph factor )

 

[thegreymonge]

love where this is going hope to see some updates soon, wanting to make RSO, with either Everclear or naptha

PS great work Tom!!!