2nd indoor grow CFLs and organics! bubblegum + bagseed advice please

Jman305

Active Member
This is my 2nd indoor grow, I saved one female out of 2 from the last grow. I cloned her and brought her outside. I pollinated the outside plant with some pollen from her brother with a foxtail trait. I got 3 seeds. Not as many as I would have liked, but the male ended up dying. Not enough perlite or heat inside to dry the soil out, root rot and fungus gnats. I got those cleaned up and here we are.

I originally used FFOF for this, but didn't have money for any when I transplanted. I use a mix of organic potting mix, perlite, EWC, FF High P bat guano + mycos, elemental sulfur + gypsum, and dolomite lime. I pH my soil to 6.5. I'm using smart pots, 3 liter for bubblegum, 7.5 for my bagseed.

I just flushed last night, as the leaves had what appeared to be salt buildup on them. My bubblegum looks to have a deficiency on the lower leaves, possibly P in veg, but I will post pics for confirmation. I've had the bubblegum from clone since Oct 4. She has been LST'd and fimmed once, which mostly just lead to more side branching and not so much more branching from the top cola. The bagseed is 2 months old in veg. She has been LST'd, topped twice, and FIM'd once. She has shown P deficiency for about 2.5 weeks. I have just ordered Jamaican Bat guano that is .1-12-.2 and will top dress with 3 Tbsp for the bagseed and 1 Tbsp for the bubblegum, as the pheno I have is 12 weeks flower and has been known to feed heavily. The bagseed's deficiency has either progressed, or when I flushed, I caused some nutes to lock out. I'll post pics so you can see what I mean. Thank you all for taking the time to read, and for following along.

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Above: Pic 1 shows a top fan leaf from a clone that was just cut next to an older fan leaf from the bottom of the plant that shows an unknown deficiency. Please help diagnose. Yes, I've visited the plant problem page. Sorry for the crappy CFL lighting.
Pic 2 shows a lady bug trying to lay eggs on my bubblegum, does this mean I have active pests in there?! I noticed some leaves with holes but I thought they were from when I pulled a catapiller out of my room. Anyone got some suggestions?!
Pic 3 shows the bubblegum when she is about 12 days into my possesion, she had been topped and LST'd and had a few fan leaves trimmed when this was taken, she has since been transplanted.

Below: Pic 1 shows the deficient leaves (sorry about the quality, still asleep when I took it) right above the temp/humidity gauge and in the center, underneath the canopy.
Pic 2 shows deficiency in the bottom left and middle of the picture, taken about a week ago.
Pic 3 shows the deficient leaves last night after flush, and Pic 4 shows them taken today.

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Again, these are lower fan leaves, my pH is 6.5, oh and my temps and humidity are 32% low, 64% high. 71F low and 88F hi. I water with silica, Unsulfured Molasses, and carbon filtered water. I foliar feed with kelp meal. I fed a tea once during veg consisting of EWC, guano, kelp meal, silica, and molasses. The silica and molasses are only every other or every 3rd watering, I alternate, to give it a chance to be used, and to create diversity for the roots. I also use neem oil occasionally for the fungus gnats since we had a good wet week of rain here and they've been breeding around the house. Saigon Cinnamon works WONDERS on those fuckers! They hate the smell of it and leave your plants alone! A nice dusting around the base of your plants will prevent them from breeding in your soil if it is too moist. Good drainage is important!

PS These smart pots grow some retarded root structures!
 

essdizzle68

Member
Jman just read your thread and a couple things jump out to me but in the last paragraph when you talk about the temps, am I correct in believing that your temps reach 88? If so, that may be the problem depending on how frequently the temp gets that high. Cannabis are sensitive to heat and I personally recommend that you try to keep the temps below 85. Looks great, I'm hoping to get the nerve to try LST method because of the increased yields. Good Luck Mate!
 

Jman305

Active Member
Its only for about 3-4 hours of the day, I have 2 larger CFLs that put off a bit of heat, the original genetics of the bagseed are for sure from a drier region of origin. She has a moderately low irrigation tolerance, but she will let you know when she needs watering, and the bubblegum doesn't seem to be minding them. LST definitely adds to the thickness of them stems and encourages side branching. I might also add I have a 240 cfm 6" inline with a carbon filter and a 4' oscillating fan with sleep, breeze, and 3 speeds for plant movement. It's done wonders for stem thickness since I added it in about 2 and a half weeks ago. I was under the impression almost all sativas are of tropical origin are they not? Some temps there reach in the 90s and occasionally 100s if I'm not mistaken. I think it all boils down to knowing your plant. I'm looking into growing some indica from Brazil that will need all kinds of water. Gotta look into the temps thing though, thanks!
 

Jman305

Active Member
For some reason the attachments won't show as pics in the thread. Sorry about that. They showed up just fine over in organics.
 

Jman305

Active Member
Checked on them this morning, another leave up the main stem is yellowing and the one on the bottom of the same stem has gotten progressively worse in 3 days. I really hope my guano gets here soon!
 

Jman305

Active Member
Does anyone know if P is for sure my only deficiency? I'm positive it is present in the bagseed, and the bubblegum is showing some of the same symptoms, but what I would like to know is if any additional nutrients have been used up in two months of veg. Last grow, it ran out of S and Mg, I made sure that didn't happen this time, but now shes out of something. Just wanna get her all in order before I flower, I'll veg as long as I have to, because for the time being, my flower tent is my veg tent, until I can get a new tent and a better flower light, they shall stay this way.
 

Jman305

Active Member
Thank you for that! I had only seen the first and 4th page before. I'm now leaning towards Sulfur and Phosphorus deficient. I applied sulfur as a pH buffer to the top of the soil and mixed thoroughly, my pH is, like I said, 6.5 but those leaves do look a little S deficient, but the P is what's really killing me. I'm just more worried that I will misdiagnose the problem and cause further damage. The problem here is, one page says S is only top leaves, and another says it is most prevalent in older leaves, thus leaving me a bit confused. I'm positive on the P though, my pics look identical from the early stages of deficiency to every P deficient picture I've seen. Again, thank you for the pics. I'll post an update tonight when I get off from work. Maybe my guano will be here today and I can start brewing a tea for instant fix, although my soil is still wet as hell from the flushing, I had to cinnamon my tent cause the fungus gnats swarmed my bubblegum. I knocked about 10 off a .8 gallon smartpot >_<. Pray for the girls!
 

giggles26

Well-Known Member
Your welcome bro. Anything to help a fellow grower. :)

Here's just a thought and I don't know if you have the funds or what your thoughts are but if I may recommend getting some dyna gro for nutes. It has to be one of the most complete nutes I've ever used. Anytime I have a deficient plant I just mix up a strong dose of dyna gro and ph it and water my girls and within 2-3 days it fixes my deficiency. Just IMO. There foilage pro is an amazing nute to.

Just love your girls and they will love you back. Keep on growin bro
bongsmilie
 

Jman305

Active Member
I have heard good things about foliage pro, never used it. I'm trying to stay organic, and I just realized I'm making a HUGE noob mistake. My water + kelp meal, silica, and molasses is 4.4 >_<!!! I'm at 6.0 until I add the molasses, then it drops to 4.4. EVEN THOUGH the molasses itself read 6.5. I'm confused. >_< I'm pretty sure that caused lock out would it not? So its a very good thing I flushed! Anyone know of an organic pH up that doesn't cause salt build up? Maybe I should substitute pulverized lime for pH adjuster and just use more kelp meal in place of the K I'm losing from the molasses?! Advice anyone? I'm doing to do the lime thing tonight, as my bubblegum is drooping for water. She started drinkin a lot!
 

Jman305

Active Member
A friend of mine that grows recommended botanicare. They make an organic line, and so does GH. Called GO. No experience with it though. Don't see the point if I mix my soil properly, I should just have to add water. That's my goal next grow, my own SS.
 

Jman305

Active Member
Update on temps/humidity. Humidity 21% low, 42% high. Temps are 71F low, 82F high, that 88F must have been a spike or else my body heat threw the meter off, Idk. I want to raise the humidity ~10-12% but I don't have $40 to invest in a reptile fogger, I need my clone/mother/veg tent and a light upgrade. Also, the clones have taken, 1 bubblegum and 1 bagseed, and the other bubblegum is unknown still, I think I see the tiniest little root poking out from the bottom, but 1 fan leave withered and died, and the other one drooped, so I pulled it. The top is a little wilted, but not dead yet, so we'll see. Thanks guys for the help, its vastly appreciated.
 

Jman305

Active Member
So, thoughts on my new mother tent?! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mylar-Grow-Tent-Box-32-x-32-x-63-Hydroponic-Reflective-Indoor-Window-Room-Hut-/140823676893?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true apluschoice seller

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mylar-Grow-Tent-Box-Hydroponics-Cabinet-32-x-32-x-63-Reflective-Room-indoor-Box-/281009984559?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item416d80142f badboydiscount seller

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reflective-Mylar-Hydroponics-Grow-Tent-Room-Box-Indoor-24-32-40-48-60-63-78-96-/170926219115?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item27cbff1f6b direct.power seller

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48-x24-x60-REFLECTIVE-MYLAR-HYDROPONICS-GROW-TENT-ROOM-/271021411807?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1a228ddf sale4youaplus seller

Anyone own any of these tents or know of anyone?! I'm not trying to cheap out on this one. My 4x4x7 has light leaks all over, came with the door sewn shut and one window, had thread tear everywhere. I took pics, made a claim, never got anything. I paid $110 instead of $125 or $140 thinking oh, it can't be that much different... WRONG! But I'm not looking to pay $115 for a 32" x32" x63" cab if it's not worth the $30 more than the other 3. I mean, I can sew, but I shouldn't have to. I just want it big enough to make 2 levels of plants. Top for mothers, bottom right for cloning, gonna try a homemade aero along with my bubblebucket, and bottom left for rooting them into soil from hydro to go into flower tent perpetual 12/12. Thanks for following along and writing in your opinions! They are appreciated! I will post pic updates here in a min.
 

Jman305

Active Member
Here's the updated pics

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1: bagseed whole plant
2: necrotic leaf from previous pictures next to new symptoms
3: new spread of symptoms
4: bubblegum progression of symptoms from previous photographs

Anyone have recommendations?! Bagseed will need watering tonight or tomorrow at latest. Bubblegum was watered with .1 gals of water pH'd to 6.5 with silica, pulverized lime, and kelp meal. I used very small amounts of additives in there, I don't want to over do anything. But from my understanding, if this is S deficient, it is locked out when there is too much Ca present. If I don't use pulverized lime to pH my water with the kelp and silica, then how am I to organically correct pH? Still, this goes back to S normally being noticed on new growth, which is fine, minus my purple undersided veins. I'm thinking possibly too much Ca and I need to hold off on it for awhile and get my P problem fixed before this gets any worse, and THEN worry about fixing the other stuff, I'll veg as long as I have to in order to make sure these girls are healthy before flower!

Edit: I'm still looking around for symptom descriptions, because I'm bad at diagnosing this stuff for some reason. Its hard to do when you work all the time and have other shit to do. I need more gardening time!!!
 

essdizzle68

Member
Jman, here's a quick and easy fix for any type of nutrient deficiency you may experience. Am I correct in believing that you are growing with a medium with the nutrients already mixed in? If that is the case and you have an excess of nutrient-filled medium, I have found that adding the unused medium to your pot will help fill-in the " nutrient gaps" while you wait for your guano to arrive. Hope this helps and look forward to seeing your further progress!
 

Jman305

Active Member
Thanks, bud! I think I'm gonna ask the wife to grab some FFOF and vermiculite for me tomorrow. I'm savin up for a flowering light and a mother tent. Thanks again for following along! +rep if I could.
 

Jman305

Active Member
Anyone have any thoughts on the tent for mothers/clones? I'm thinking about just building my own so I have dimensions that fit my needs. I want room for 2 males in 2x2" square containers in their own separate chamber with their own timer and ventilation for breeding and making my own seed stock. I want an area big enough to root clones from either a humidity tray+dome with rockwool, a bubble bucket cloner, or an aero cloner. And then one area for putting those clones into containers to be vegged a week or two before they go into the flower tent. Lastly, I would like room for anywhere from 8-16 mothers. I've seen a thread on grasscity that had a guy who keep mothers in 2"x2" and 3"x3" containers for years and has no problems, he transplants regularly and trims roots and adds new soil. His stems are fucking tree trunks and he can get anywhere from 20-50 clones a month depending on strain. That's per container. FAR over the limit for me, because I don't know anyone to give them to, nor do I have a need for such an amount. This is to allow for a variety of Cannabis strains that appeal to me and alleviate multiple symptoms, and for different aromas and tastes. COME ON PEOPLE I SEE YOU LURKING!!!
 

Jman305

Active Member
Watered with nutes today, 1L a piece with 1 tsp FF guano, 4 drops fish emulsion, 1 tsp kelp, 2 tsps pulverized lime, tiny pinch of sulfur, and 1 tsp silica. Got it worked out to pH at 6.5 on the spot. Found out my cloner was at 5.5, changed out water and remixed to 6.5. Going to check it tomorrow, might drop it down to 5.8-6.2. I hear that's the range for hydro and I want these ladies to get a nice strong root system because they are going to be my mothers. I think I decided on a tent. http://www.amazon.com/Grow-Hydroponics-4X2X4-Reflective-Mylar/dp/B00725XC1A/ref=reg_hu-rd_dp_img Seeing as I'm looking into purchasing a Gotham hydro light, might as well get the tent too!
 
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