Obama gave us commerce by gun to your head; enslavement to health care sector

canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
jumpin' buffalo said:
Apparently it hasn't occurred to you that what's wrong with health care in the United States is the way we do health care. All Obama did was just enslave everyone to the old, broken, status quo way.
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Here we go with the slave comparisons again. Some of us are slaves currently to the health care system we have. We are forced to pay more and more for less and less. My wife got her yearly women's healt tests done, thinking that our insurance was now obligated to pay 100 percent for it. We just got the bill. It says that our company graciously negotiated for us, bringing down a 170 dollar bill to a 44 dollar bill. How wonderful for us, except that we pay the 44 bucks. That means that our health care company paid nothing. My wife pays in the high 300's a month in premiums. We have a 5,000 dollar deductable, why? because TEN years ago she had a cancer scare. Nothing happened, it wasn't even cancer but that was enough to screw us.

I have high blood pressure - something that is easily contained with a bottle of pills that cost 3 dollars (and cost us 25 thanks to the insurance company's great negotiating prowess). But that was a pre-existing condition, the pills have no long term side effects but it makes no difference, I am paying a premium on my premium because of this easily correctable condition.


That - is slavery. In effect we pay over 700 dollars a month for the privlege of paying 5,000 dollars for our care. I have (or had) a 2 million dollar yearly cap and a 5 million dollar lifetime cap. That could be eaten up easily.

Knowing what I do about insurance companies, I was absolutely careful with every interview and ever application. I skipped nothing. I still fear that were I to need some of their money they might find something somewhere that I did wrong and kick me off of the plan.


So long as insurance companies are for profit, they will never help any of us.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Mindmelted said:
Amazing my bosses dad had to come down here(from canada) to have open heart surgery(because the wait was too long)

But yet my girlfriend got told she needed open heart on a tuesday,And they had her cracked open that friday.

Gee which would i want,wait or have it done now.

Which is what is gonna happen here with Odumbacare.
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This is pretty much bullshit when looked at all by itself.


Firstly, I have never had to wait for any proceedure. But secondly, if you have the money - you don't have to wait. That is the way it is. Most people don't have the money for open heart surgery. They either wait or they die. To my mind, waiting is better.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Here we go with the slave comparisons again. Some of us are slaves currently to the health care system we have. We are forced to pay more and more for less and less. My wife got her yearly women's healt tests done, thinking that our insurance was now obligated to pay 100 percent for it. We just got the bill. It says that our company graciously negotiated for us, bringing down a 170 dollar bill to a 44 dollar bill. How wonderful for us, except that we pay the 44 bucks. That means that our health care company paid nothing. My wife pays in the high 300's a month in premiums. We have a 5,000 dollar deductable, why? because TEN years ago she had a cancer scare. Nothing happened, it wasn't even cancer but that was enough to screw us.

I have high blood pressure - something that is easily contained with a bottle of pills that cost 3 dollars (and cost us 25 thanks to the insurance company's great negotiating prowess). But that was a pre-existing condition, the pills have no long term side effects but it makes no difference, I am paying a premium on my premium because of this easily correctable condition.


That - is slavery. In effect we pay over 700 dollars a month for the privlege of paying 5,000 dollars for our care. I have (or had) a 2 million dollar yearly cap and a 5 million dollar lifetime cap. That could be eaten up easily.

Knowing what I do about insurance companies, I was absolutely careful with every interview and ever application. I skipped nothing. I still fear that were I to need some of their money they might find something somewhere that I did wrong and kick me off of the plan.


So long as insurance companies are for profit, they will never help any of us.
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Apparently you think insurance companies should work for free... And you talk about enslavement?

The taxpayers did not cause you or your wife's conditions but suddenly since you cant seem to pay you expect some other person to pony up money to cover you.

I didnt make you or your wife sick. But somehow, it falls onto me to pay for your medical bills when they get to expensive for you?

How do you think other people can afford what you cannot? One person in 16 is now on medical disability. That means 16 people have to pay for the support checks for that 1 other individual. When is it going to stop?
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
Apparently you think insurance companies should work for free... And you talk about enslavement?

The taxpayers did not cause you or your wife's conditions but suddenly since you cant seem to pay you expect some other person to pony up money to cover you.

I didnt make you or your wife sick. But somehow, it falls onto me to pay for your medical bills when they get to expensive for you?

How do you think other people can afford what you cannot? One person in 16 is now on medical disability. That means 16 people have to pay for the support checks for that 1 other individual. When is it going to stop?
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I do think insurance companies should work for free. When there is a system where someone profits from depriving a person of needed health care then that system is automaticaly corrupt. Why should a stock holder make money by letting my wife die? We pool resources in order to mitigate risk - why should health insurance companies profit off of this? What exactly do the health insurance companies contribute to this system?

Who said I can't seem to pay? But at what point does it mean that no one can pay?

I don't think you understand what pooling resources in order to help those who need it, is the way things work. Yes, if my wife gets sick and I am paying into a pool then she gets the benefit from the resources of the pool. If we don't get sick and you do, then you get the benefit.

What is the problem with that?
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member

  • When there is a system where someone profits from depriving a person of needed health care then that system is automaticaly corrupt.​
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Everyone will need health care at some time or another.

What your saying is that their need trumps the needs of others. That a sick person is to be held above a healthy person. And that the healthy person or people are expected to work for free or at a loss because doing otherwise is corrupt.

I think your ideas are corrupt.

Your idea of pooling resources is known as re-distribution of wealth. One person's need does not extend above another person's freedom.

Your way stunts innovation and growth because there is no incentive for a drug or medical company to exist without profit. There is no motive. Thus nothing is created, no new innovation takes place. Why would a doctor spend decades going to medical school and get hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to work for free?

That is my problem with that.
 
Samwell Seed Well

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
when your sick you get care . . . thats it . . .. no matter how much care you have had or your hair color or if you make six figures . . .how is this hard to understand

"And that the healthy person or people are expected to work for free" you work to get paid . . . . . . .and benifits packages are a part of that but if there should be a nexus lane for health care . . it should go case by case as to whom is in more of a threat to life and health . . . . . .
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
Everyone will need health care at some time or another.

What your saying is that their need trumps the needs of others. That a sick person is to be held above a healthy person. And that the healthy person or people are expected to work for free or at a loss because doing otherwise is corrupt.

I think your ideas are corrupt.

Your idea of pooling resources is known as re-distribution of wealth. One person's need does not extend above another person's freedom.

Your way stunts innovation and growth because there is no incentive for a drug or medical company to exist without profit. There is no motive. Thus nothing is created, no new innovation takes place. Why would a doctor spend decades going to medical school and get hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to work for free?

That is my problem with that.
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What exactly are you talking about? Nowhere did I say that doctors or nurses or hospitals or any other health care worker should not be paid. Yes, every person will need health care. But none of these people deprive a person from health care and I never said anyone should be expected to work for free.

Pooling of resources in order to mitigate risk is how all insurance operates NL. That is not a redistribution of wealth. Health insurance companies do "redistribute wealth" by taking money that should go toward treatment, that should go from the patient's risk pool to the health care provider and putting some of that in their own pockets.

My "way" stunts the "innovation" of health insurance companies who "innovate" new ways to make more money at the cost of their customers and their customer's health - and btw, they seem to take money from doctors, nurses, hospitals and drug companies as well.

Your "way" is only good for the CEOs and stock holders of health insurance companies. You neglected to demonstrate how insurance companies do anything for the money the recieve.

Let us talk about redistribution of wealth. Presume that you and I have the same insurance company. We each pay 500 a month. After 10 years you get sick and need a heart transplant - it costs 1 million dollars. I do not get sick, I never need any treatment for anything. My "wealth" was redistributed to you and I never see anything for my money. All the while the insurance company is keeping 20 percent of both of our premiums. Seems to me that by your way of thinking this is redistribution most foul.
 
Mindmelted

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
In his first campaign for the White House, Obama pledged not to raise taxes on individuals making less than $200,000 a year and couples making less than $250,000.And the budget office analysis found that nearly 80 percent of those who'll face the penalty would be making up to or less than five times the federal poverty level. Currently that would work out to $55,850 or less for an individual and $115,250 or less for a family of four.
Average penalty: about $1,200 in 2016.
 
Mr Neutron

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
I don't live in the US, I don't use any services of the government but yet I have to pay income tax and will be expected to buy insurance, whether I want it or not, or pay the penalty tax... even though I am at the poverty level in income. Yeah, that's fair.
 
Mindmelted

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
This is pretty much bullshit when looked at all by itself.


Firstly, I have never had to wait for any proceedure. But secondly, if you have the money - you don't have to wait. That is the way it is. Most people don't have the money for open heart surgery. They either wait or they die. To my mind, waiting is better.
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Yeah whatever you say!!!

The old canadien guy is a liar.....:wall:
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Mr Neutron said:
I don't live in the US, I don't use any services of the government but yet I have to pay income tax and will be expected to buy insurance, whether I want it or not, or pay the penalty tax... even though I am at the poverty level in income. Yeah, that's fair.
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Sign up for the Mexican universal healthcare plan
They even let cheap ass whining american expatriates sign up like you
And really what is your tax liability if you live out of the country and have a income of 900 bucks a month?
 
Mr Neutron

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Sign up for the Mexican universal healthcare plan
They even let cheap ass whining american expatriates sign up like you
And really what is your tax liability if you live out of the country and have a income of 900 bucks a month?
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Again? Don't you ever tire of repeating the same old garbage? I should sign up for Mexican Medicare even though my medical expenses are less than half of the costs of the insurance, only you would think that is a good idea. After the IRS comes and takes me to federal prison for not buying health insurance (if they don't gun me down), it won't matter. I guess THEN I will finally get something for my tax dollars.
Want to know what my tax liability is? I told you already, at least a couple of times. Figure it out.
Can you live on $900/mn without any help? I think not.
BTW, thanks for being an adult and keeping it civil by not getting personal or calling anybody derogatory names, very mature of you.
 
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