Quick Q about wiring a 2 Gang electrical outlet box... Grounding outlets together...

[DrGribble]

So I have all my 10awg wire run from service panel to where I want my 2 gang outlet box to be installed, I have two 15 amp outlets and I have them all wired aside from the ground... there's only one grounding screw on an outlet I see and 10awg is some thick stuff so I can't find any wire nuts (at my house) that will take 3 of them together. The way I figure it is I need to run the original ground to the wire nut and then the two bare pieces of copper wires in a similar way to 'jumper wires' since I can't screw both to the same green screw which is a no-no apparently (and they're too thick anyway)

What's my play here? I am guessing the wirenut connecting the 3 pieces of the overall ground is what I need... did not even consider the fact that I did not have dual grounding screws like there are for the hot and neutral wires before I purchased all my items. That's my only hold up... damn I don't feel like killing more time and going back to the store for a wire nut. Is that the only way to do this correctly?

 

[DrGribble]

I have a Yellow wire nut but I think I could only manage 12awg with this (x3) I am going to take a couple test pieces and twist the end together with plyers to see how tight I can get it and if it will thread into the nut I have, otherwise looks like I need to make a trip into town for something that costs less than $1, lol... I hate that, especially since I can't go anywhere for another 5 hours... Booooo!

 

[DrGribble]

ALSO, I can Solder these together (I am reading people suggesting it on DIY sites) but it appears that is more for stranded wire? I am running solid wire of course but I could totally solder the 3 pieces together and tape it up but I don't think this would be nearly as good as a heavy duty wire nut. I am not planning on doing this unless I get a unanimous go ahead on that one though I have everything for that.

It does suck though, my yellow wire nut is for 10-18awg but I am pretty sure it can only acomodate two wires, I tried with 3 and it was impossible... I am not even sure how the hell you can twist together such thick, rigid, coat hanger like wire anyway as I am used to working with stranded wiring (audio/video stuff, electronics) wish I had an 8 gauge red wire nut I think that would handle it.

 

[DrGribble]

Think this could work? (as long as I ensure the bond is tight on both ends) I was thinking of putting a dab of solder on the ends to secure it better or something else that will work.

 

[str8sativa]

thT WONT WORK YOU HAVE TO DAISY CHAIN THE 2 OUTLETS TOGETER ++ -- and the ground has to be connected to the box not the other outlet. put a wire from outlet on the right to the one on the left, then put another wire from the - spot on the right outlet to the - side on the left. if you dont daisy chain the power will only go to the 1 outlet. i can take a few pics i dint this twice last week

 

[DrGribble]

I understand what you're saying in part but there (might) be a little confusion with the photo... I have NOT yet wired the 'jumper lines' or the other Hot/Neutral wires from the second screw of each outlet to one another yet (I know I have to do this, I was just showing the ground connection ONLY) This will not work (ground is what I am wondering about only) I don't know how this would be substantially different than having the grounds tied together with a wirenut since the wires are all connected anyway just mounted to the one receptical rather than a wire nut.

I know the second outlet would not get any kind of power as seen in the photo haha, this is 'in progress' I was not going to continue until I have the grounding for the second outlet issue resolved that is all that is in question here

Thanks for chiming in too, I appreciate it! So what do you think based on this post?


My buddy seems to think that ground is kind of whack... I suppose I agree, it's damn near impossible to get this 10awg wire wrapped around the screws too... you can see one left to be connected which is driving me nuts since it's so thick.

 

[DrGribble]

My friend told me something about interactions between aluminum and copper wire too, those wire connectors are aluminum I am pretty sure as most are, aren't they?

If it wasn't gonna be like $100 I'd have someone come out and make the connections on both ends for me but that's a lot of money for a 20 minute job.

 

[DrGribble]

If I was to go out and by a steel box instead of this plastic one, could I just ground the second outlet to the box itself and avoid this entire issue? This box DOES have some metal on it, it has a bracket that clasps onto the wall studs which is made of metal any chance I can run the ground to the screw that attaches the box to the metal bracket? Sorry I sound like an idiot here just wondering if I absolutely need to go out and buy some different hardware to make this easier on myself.

Still have doubts about a wire nut, even 8awg/red tieing 3 pieces of 10awg solid wire together anyway.

 

[DrGribble]

NEVERMIND THIS THREAD


I realize I have been going about this all wrong, I thought that I could run a 30amp 125v circuit and split it among two 15amp outlets but have read so much on how wrong this is on so many levels that I have abandoned the entire idea. I am going to buy a 4 light controller like one of those $100 CAP units and wire that directly to the 30amp circuit... only problem is, I THINK you have the option to install this with 10/2 OR 10/3 romex so I certainly hope so otherwise I wasted money on 50' of 10/2 because I knew I would not be running 220V.

Sucks, but I guess it is what it is... glad I figured out how wrong this was before going any further, I will like having a REAL light controller anyway, I'll just get the one with the built in timer and then I can power all 1800W plus A/C off that single unit with no more headaches.

 

[Brokeoldbloke]

Glad you didn't start a fire. If the controller requires 120v 30amp supply then it would be 10/2. Just check the spec sheet or install instructions.

 

[DrGribble]

Glad you didn't start a fire. If the controller requires 120v 30amp supply then it would be 10/2. Just check the spec sheet or install instructions.

I am going 220/240 now.. just grabbed a double pole 30amp breaker and 10/2 is what this controller calls for thankfully -- would have sucked if I ran 50' of wire today for nothing. The CAP MLC-4XT is what I got, it only will operate @ 240 and my digital ballasts automatically adjust depending on what they're plugged into so I think I should be good to go, unfortunately I won't be able to run my A/C off of this but will have room for another light if I ever feel like I need 4 (don't think so) I have it completely installed in the room and wire run to the service panel only thing left to do is cut power to the house and screw in 3 wires, snap the breaker in and give it a whirl... I am fairly sure I remember turning the power off outside my house is very easy, there's a box out there with a large pull out that you just yank out, invert and re-insert. Probably don't even need to put it back in until I need to bring my power back just hope this does not get flagged as any kind of tampering -- gonna take like 10-15 minutes tops (assuming I can see what I am doing in my pitch black basement)


This is such a better option... No more half ass and still very much on the affordable end.

 

[str8sativa]

I am going 220/240 now.. just grabbed a double pole 30amp breaker and 10/2 is what this controller calls for thankfully -- would have sucked if I ran 50' of wire today for nothing. The CAP MLC-4XT is what I got, it only will operate @ 240 and my digital ballasts automatically adjust depending on what they're plugged into so I think I should be good to go, unfortunately I won't be able to run my A/C off of this but will have room for another light if I ever feel like I need 4 (don't think so) I have it completely installed in the room and wire run to the service panel only thing left to do is cut power to the house and screw in 3 wires, snap the breaker in and give it a whirl... I am fairly sure I remember turning the power off outside my house is very easy, there's a box out there with a large pull out that you just yank out, invert and re-insert. Probably don't even need to put it back in until I need to bring my power back just hope this does not get flagged as any kind of tampering -- gonna take like 10-15 minutes tops (assuming I can see what I am doing in my pitch black basement)


This is such a better option... No more half ass and still very much on the affordable end.

nice i have the same unit except witthout the built in timer works great ran romex from my 30 amp dryer plug runs the 4 light perfect

 

[DrGribble]

nice i have the same unit except witthout the built in timer works great ran romex from my 30 amp dryer plug runs the 4 light perfect

I just ran into a big disappointing (I stupidly assumed I had available space in my service panel because there were 4 breakout tabs still (dumb) and just opened it up to realize there is no space... I never found a way to to disconnect the power outside the house like I had thought was there it was simply for the Central Air it looks like. There is a double pole 30 amp breaker, exactly as the one I purchased that IS WIRED however I cannot yet figure out what it controls or if it's even still in use... This house is pretty old and has been remodeled and changed up a lot by previous owner, we moved in just a couple years ago.

Anyway this 30-Amp double pole breaker is labeled "Dishwasher" but it's not for the dishwasher, I think these are all incorrectly labeled or not updated also spots 19 & 20 are unlabeled and when I toggle them on/off I don't notice anything either. I am wondering if I can just toggle the 30-amp and the two others unlabeled off and try and use EVERYTHING in the house room by room in a systematic approach to figure these things as un-used or not. I really need to get this hooked up but with no available spaces that really sucks. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some stuff in here that was phased out... I mean I see "Washer/Dryer" listed THREE TIMES in the service panel and I know which one actually controls the washer/dryer. I think the upstairs bathroom used to have a washer/dryer but the wall was patched and hidden and the dryer vent outside that wall has been out of use since we lived here... maybe that one would work.

I wouldn't be surprised if I thought one was of no use then 3 months down the road I notice something isn't working haha... like the heat... at this point it's looking like I am going to have an electrician up in my grow room with my plants surrounding him, awkward... at this point I am getting annoyed and frustrated knowing how simple this is but running into setbacks because I am trying to do it for the first time. I gotta have a way to get that power though... that's all I know.

Hmm...

 

[DrGribble]

Also wondering about consolidating some of these single pole breakers into tandem breakers, if I did a few of those I could gain enough space to put this new double pole in... I need to find an electrician who wants some smoke. I called one a month ago or so and asked about getting 240v service installed and first thing he asked is "Is this for a grow room?" I was kind of shocked so I lied and said no lol, but in hindsight I think that's the guy I will call if it comes down to it... he said he's done a lot and that's why he asked -- awkward moment on the phone right there.

 

[NW2AZ]

an electrician i work with gave me an easy option while i was on a budget awhile back. Since running from the pannel to the room was a long run and copper is pricey my laundry room is located closer to the room so i bought a sub panel and then ran two single pole 20 amp breakers with 12 2 to my room to their own plugs. I then wired a 30 amp in to the panel to run my dryers outlet and reinstalled that next to the panel.Only running the dryer during lights off very cheap option if the location of a large amp run is near your room.

 

[george xxx]

There is nothing wrong with the ground wire connection as pictured.
One ground wire from the service panel serves all recepticles for the circuit.

White and black are in their proper locations.
The aluminum crimp connectors are not a choice idea but they will work for ground wire only.
The black and white leads carry the load and are subject to heat from electron flow. The ground wire carries no load and is not subject to stress from heating.

The correct way is to connect 2 short ground leads to the one lead from the service panel. It would make exactly the same connection without the crimps.

 

[george xxx]

I am going 220/240 now.. just grabbed a double pole 30amp breaker and 10/2 is what this controller calls for thankfully -- would have sucked if I ran 50' of wire today for nothing. The CAP MLC-4XT is what I got, it only will operate @ 240 and my digital ballasts automatically adjust depending on what they're plugged into so I think I should be good to go, unfortunately I won't be able to run my A/C off of this but will have room for another light if I ever feel like I need 4 (don't think so) I have it completely installed in the room and wire run to the service panel only thing left to do is cut power to the house and screw in 3 wires, snap the breaker in and give it a whirl... I am fairly sure I remember turning the power off outside my house is very easy, there's a box out there with a large pull out that you just yank out, invert and re-insert. Probably don't even need to put it back in until I need to bring my power back just hope this does not get flagged as any kind of tampering -- gonna take like 10-15 minutes tops (assuming I can see what I am doing in my pitch black basement)


This is such a better option... No more half ass and still very much on the affordable end.

The box with timer is a good simplified option.

There is something that makes no sense here. 10/2
220 ran with 10/2 is two 110 hot legs no ground. Where is the neutral coming from for the 110 recepticles?
A functional 110 outlet is not possible without a neutral.

 

[DrGribble]

The box with timer is a good simplified option.

There is something that makes no sense here. 10/2
220 ran with 10/2 is two 110 hot legs no ground. Where is the neutral coming from for the 110 recepticles?
A functional 110 outlet is not possible without a neutral.

It's a very misleading product, it actually only has 240V powered outlets with '120v style interface' however I can put that and 120v trigger but that's it. It actually only takes two hots and a ground, it's 10/2 plus ground. I don't need a neutral for anything which is why I was concerned at first thinking I needed 10/3 but even the installation documentation for this thing specifically states to use 10/2.

Now that I have no place for the breaker though... sucks. I may switch my dryer back to gas as I need a new one anyway and my dryer hookup was gas when I moved in I was the one who actually had the 220 installed I can just use that one since gas lines and everything are already in place. Dunno if I feel like dropping $500 on a modest dryer right now or not though.

 

[Brokeoldbloke]

Doc,
Sorry for the troubles. I would map out and label your panel. Then you would know if you have space or not. Tandem breakers may fit only if it’s a older style panel or you have the older style breaker. Some newer models of panels prevent the use of tandems so if you buy 20 space panel you can't overload it by making a 40 space with tandems. My SqD brand panel is this way. The only things off hand I can think of that use 2pole breakers in my house are the dryer-30amp, electric stove-50amp and the A/C-?amp. Other ones in a house could be for an electric water heater, electric heat or some type of garage/shop equipment. The dishwasher is a 120v 20amp circuit. If your house had two laundry rooms then maybe that second dryer breaker is available. If they just moved it then probably not. Also on turning-off the panel board. Is there a main breaker? Something rated like 100, 125 or 150amps? That will turn off the electricity to the all other breakers so you can add or disconnect them. Just remember that incoming side of the main will still be live.

 

[str8sativa]

do you use your dyer? there should be a 30 amp for the dryer, a 30 amp for the water heater and a 50 amp for the oven, i would just run romex from your dyer outlet through your attic into your room thats what i did. just go by the dryer plug pieces from home depot its like $3 and just wire the romex to the new plug and its kinds like a long 22ov extension cord