If anything good can be said of Congress....

[beenthere]

That depends beenthere. Although I can be and have been misled, I don't lie. So you could take my word for it, much as you seem to think I should take your word for your assertion that Obama "gutted" medicare in order to pay for his health care reform.

but I can show you evidence. Of course I suspect that the first thing you will do is impugn my sources.

Hell canndo, I've never considered you a liar, grossly misinformed on many issues but not a liar.

 

[canndo]

so either he cut 500B right off the top and counted that towards decreasing the cost of the bill or he put it in somewhere else (he didn't) and still counted it as decreasing the cost of the bill, which is it?

The doctor fix that costs 370B in medicare payments wasn't counted in the health care bill either but student loans were (counted as a repayment at 100% too).

When asked specific provisions that people like or not it all depends on the questions doesn't it? Are you in favor of allowing children up to 27 to remain on parents plan? Hell yes, those people most likely wouldn't buy their own insurance and are at the healthiest age of their lives which lowers our premiums by allowing their parents to purchase an additional person. Pre-existing coverage? hell yes.

Are you in favor of charging an extra tax on wheel chairs and oxygen? How about taking away your FSA accounts? In favor of Pharmaceuticals being able to dictate the name brand of your drug while not allowing competition? How about not being able to purchase insurance from the next state, or being limited to 1 year purchases instead of 5 or 10?

You can spin it how you want, every poll you see will show the majority are against the bill in it's entirety and the dems are acting against the will of the people. As you can see, I can ask specific questions geared toward making the unfavorability upwards of 90%.

This bill is a gold mine for Cigna, AARP etc.

Of course it is a gold mine for the Insurance companies - why do you think that the Heritage foundation and Romney wanted it in the first place? why do you think that insurance companies, knowing that something would likely finally be passed, crippled it while lobbying against it and spreading the falsehoods it has? If it passed, they win, if it didn't they still win.

Yes, they are in favor of the specifics as you state, everyone is for insuring those with pre-existing conditions, insuring children, forbidding yearly or lifetime limits to funding, free preventative examinations (the absence of which never made sense to me) and the like. I get a kick out of the presumption that parents covering their children is a strange thing. I recall my father being actually frightened when he discovered that I wasn't purchasing insurance. "Are you crazy?" "but I'm well dad, I am 23". "son, should you get into a horrible accident what do you think your family will do? let you die or be disfigured or permanently disabled? We would wind up depleating our entire fortune when we didn't have to" - of course he went out and got me catestrophic coverage to protect his interests, not mine.

This is not spin, the spin that is infecting the country is what occurs when Insurance companies pitch hundreds of millions into PR campaigns to have us believe exactly as Beenthere believes.

Don't believe for an instant that I think this law is the final panacea, it isn't, it was hobbled from the start and there are no effective limits

 

[canndo]

Hell canndo, I've never considered you a liar, grossly misinformed on many issues but not a liar.

You will find Beenthere, that when my errors are pointed out to me, I change my views. So show me where I am wrong about that Obama "gutting" medicare.

(if you are interested, the last time I changed my viewpoint was when I claimed that rounding up and deporting all illegals would be too costly, a conservative showed me reasonable numbers that demonstrated that indeed, doing such a thing would result in savings on the 10th year after the campaign was complete - now I am an advocate of just such a thing)

 

[beenthere]

You will find Beenthere, that when my errors are pointed out to me, I change my views. So show me where I am wrong about that Obama "gutting" medicare.

(if you are interested, the last time I changed my viewpoint was when I claimed that rounding up and deporting all illegals would be too costly, a conservative showed me reasonable numbers that demonstrated that indeed, doing such a thing would result in savings on the 10th year after the campaign was complete - now I am an advocate of just such a thing)

I guess I could quote you sources from my side of the isle for you to disregard and we could go back and forth endlessly, instead I'll approach it with some simple common sense.

First off, I think you'll agree that neither of us have concrete figures on the total cost or savings of diverting funds from medicare to Obamacare. But I do know that doctors and hospitals negotiate discount Medicare and Medicaid rates with the federal government and I think you will also agree that there is not an abundance of those doctors and hospitals who are willing to participate in these programs when they can make a lot more money in the private sector. With that said, we either mandate hospitals, doctors, nurses, medical techs etc to work for lower wages or, we pass the extra costs on to the tax payers who are already liable for over $13trillion as it is!

 

[canndo]

I guess I could quote you sources from my side of the isle for you to disregard and we could go back and forth endlessly, instead I'll approach it with some simple common sense.

First off, I think you'll agree that neither of us have concrete figures on the total cost or savings of diverting funds from medicare to Obamacare. Now I do know that doctors and hospitals negotiate discount Medicare and Medicaid rates with the federal government and I think you will also agree that there is not an abundance of those doctors and hospitals who are willing to participate in these programs when they can make a lot more money in the private sector. With that said, we either mandate hospitals, doctors, nurses, medical techs etc to work for lower wages or, we pass the extra costs on to the tax payers who are already liable for over $13trillion as it is!

Beenthere, you know what small regard I hold for common sense, common sense to my way of thinking is simply lazy reasoning. Common sense says that the world is flat, and it took uncommon comitment, reasoning and exploration to discover the realty.

However:

No, neither of us are privy to the specific figures, and I also am unwilling to delve into the numbers even if I thought I had the wherewithall to comprehend them.

We are not talking about doctors and hospitals herer Beenthere, we are talking about insurance companies that made deals with goernment, firstly that they were paid above and beyond what was required in order to take on factions of government sponsored health care. Accordingly, they were willing to give up these inducements when they were assured that they would have a much larger pool of payers when all was said and done.

I am talking specificaly about the 716 billion (or what ever the exact number is) that Romney claims Obama took from medicare in order to fund his program. Now there are other facts here, the first being that no matter where he got that money, he placed it back into the resource pool. There are recipients in one class or another for all of that money. In short, the sick and or the old are getting the money in the form of care. Romney plans to take that money from the recipients themselves and pitch it to another class that is not sick. That class may be the rich and it may be tax payers as a whole that is the true definition of "gutting". Romney is, in this case, is either lying or does not know the true nature of his plan. Either one is unacceptabel to me.

If you wish though, I will look to see if I can find something that will at least explain it better than I have.

 

[beenthere]

Beenthere, you know what small regard I hold for common sense, common sense to my way of thinking is simply lazy reasoning. Common sense says that the world is flat, and it took uncommon comitment, reasoning and exploration to discover the realty.

.

We've uncovered your problem canndo. LOL
Ya see, I don't have to analyze the amount of traffic on a freeway at rush hour or calculate the time it would take me to run across it to know what might happen.

 

[canndo]

We've uncovered your problem canndo. LOL
Ya see, I don't have to analyze the amount of traffic on a freeway at rush hour or calculate the time it would take me to run across it to know what might happen.

No, but that has nothing really to do with applying common sense to a complicated soical issue. This is like those on the right who actually believe that they can compare their household finances with federal budgets and claim that rather than look into the issue, they can lazily cast decrees. the Tea Party is filled with "common sense" while objective reason flies out their mental windows.

 

[NLXSK1]

don't lie. you said you were not going to start any of your shuper aweshome busshinesshes because big bad obama was hurting you so badly.

how did all those tax breaks he provided for small business hurt you so badly?

by the way, the only new regulations form obamacare come on businesses with more than 50 employees. otherwise, you are given subsidies and face no shared responsibility requirement.

dumbass.

;

Liar..

I said I wasnt going to try to make millions in real estate because of the governments shitty handling of the economy. Instead I would start smaller businesses that take less time and spend more of my free time on hobbies. I know, I was there...

But hey, you are a proven liar and spinmeister. It is the only way you can support most of your positions on issues.

 

[beenthere]

No, but that has nothing really to do with applying common sense to a complicated soical issue. This is like those on the right who actually believe that they can compare their household finances with federal budgets and claim that rather than look into the issue, they can lazily cast decrees. the Tea Party is filled with "common sense" while objective reason flies out their mental windows.

Dude, you can over analyze this all you want, but like your household budget, fundamentally, you can't sustain an economy by endlessly spending more than you take in.

 

[ChesusRice]

;

Liar..

I said I wasnt going to try to make millions in real estate because of the governments shitty handling of the economy. Instead I would start smaller businesses that take less time and spend more of my free time on hobbies. I know, I was there...

But hey, you are a proven liar and spinmeister. It is the only way you can support most of your positions on issues.

No you said on more than one occasion you wouldnt start a business becuase of Obama
End of discussion

 

[ink the world]

;

Liar..

I said I wasnt going to try to make millions in real estate because of the governments shitty handling of the economy. Instead I would start smaller businesses that take less time and spend more of my free time on hobbies. I know, I was there...

But hey, you are a proven liar and spinmeister. It is the only way you can support most of your positions on issues.

So you're not gonna invest in real estate now? There's a brilliant economic decision, in the words of Donald Trump on the real estate market as it is now "this is the time when millionaires are made"

Real estate is just starting to recover from being at an all time low. Anyone with sense knows this is the time to buy. And you're full of shit about small business taxes, you are either completely uninformed and see only disingenuous partisan talking points or you don't own a small business and see your own taxes

 

[NLXSK1]

So you're not gonna invest in real estate now? There's a brilliant economic decision, in the words of Donald Trump on the real estate market as it is now "this is the time when millionaires are made"

Real estate is just starting to recover from being at an all time low. Anyone with sense knows this is the time to buy. And you're full of shit about small business taxes, you are either completely uninformed and see only disingenuous partisan talking points or you don't own a small business and see your own taxes

I dont see myself saying anything about small business taxes in my post. Are you arguing with me about shit you made up?

In addition... you took what I said, made it into something else and are arguing with me about it.

I did not say that I wont invest in real estate, it is nowhere in my post. Yet you want to create straw men to argue about because you are an idiot that cannot have a conversation on it's merits.

Next...

 

[ChesusRice]

I dont see myself saying anything about small business taxes in my post. Are you arguing with me about shit you made up?

In addition... you took what I said, made it into something else and are arguing with me about it.

I did not say that I wont invest in real estate, it is nowhere in my post. Yet you want to create straw men to argue about because you are an idiot that cannot have a conversation on it's merits.

Next...

You have said in the past numerous times
You will not start a business because of Obama

Don't deny it
it is in your history of posting

https://www.rollitup.org/members/nlxsk1-53208.html

 

[ink the world]

I dont see myself saying anything about small business taxes in my post. Are you arguing with me about shit you made up?

In addition... you took what I said, made it into something else and are arguing with me about it.

I did not say that I wont invest in real estate, it is nowhere in my post. Yet you want to create straw men to argue about because you are an idiot that cannot have a conversation on it's merits.

Next...

Really? Are you that fucking lost that you can't remember your own lying posts ?

"I said I wasnt going to try to make millions in real estate because of the governments shitty handling of the economy."

"No, those businesses you made up in your head. I am speaking of the real businesses I am running. I suck at landscaping and live in a desert you dumbass...

BTW, clearing more than 50K annually now. I am going to have to consider not taking more accounts very soon. Due to Obamacare and all the rampant regulation out there I dont want to hire any employees. Back when we started this conversation over a year ago I explained that the actions of Obama and the federal government had led me to choose smaller businesses with lower income and lower time investment. "

Youve stated that you're taxes went up in other posts here, I'm nit gonna dig but we all know they are there

 

[ink the world]

BTW,

Your small business that you made a $50000 profit from, how many employees do you have?

 

[canndo]

Dude, you can over analyze this all you want, but like your household budget, fundamentally, you can't sustain an economy by endlessly spending more than you take in.

Over analyze? not hardly - my houshold doesn't maintain an army, my household can't print money and when times are tight my household finds it best to earn more money.

 

[NLXSK1]

Really? Are you that fucking lost that you can't remember your own lying posts ?

"I said I wasnt going to try to make millions in real estate because of the governments shitty handling of the economy."

"No, those businesses you made up in your head. I am speaking of the real businesses I am running. I suck at landscaping and live in a desert you dumbass...

BTW, clearing more than 50K annually now. I am going to have to consider not taking more accounts very soon. Due to Obamacare and all the rampant regulation out there I dont want to hire any employees. Back when we started this conversation over a year ago I explained that the actions of Obama and the federal government had led me to choose smaller businesses with lower income and lower time investment. "

Youve stated that you're taxes went up in other posts here, I'm nit gonna dig but we all know they are there

No, I have never said my taxes went up. I have been starting a business the last 2 years, I have no income to tax... LOL!!!

I am not running a business INVOLVED IN REAL ESTATE. That does not mean that I am not investing in real estate, it simply means I am not doing real estate as my primary business.

• Your small business that you made a $50000 profit from, how many employees do you have?​
  
  
  
  

This is DIRECT evidence how stupid the average person is regarding business people. I said my revenue exceeded 50K. Obviously to someone clueless it means I am making 50K... That is before taxes, expenses, etc...

 

[Rob Roy]

Regarding the topic of this thread -The only thing good about this congress is Ron Paul and Barney Frank were trying to get the feds to lay off ganja, other than that not much good, just the same old same old wrestling for the gun in the room and who gets to tell people how to live their lives.

 

[canndo]

Regarding the topic of this thread -The only thing good about this congress is Ron Paul and Barney Frank were trying to get the feds to lay off ganja, other than that not much good, just the same old same old wrestling for the gun in the room and who gets to tell people how to live their lives.

Actually they weren't trying to get the feds to lay off of pot so much as they were trying to enforce those same state's rights that everyone seems to claim exist until those state's rights infringe upon ideology. Since when did the Fed believe it was their place to enforce state and local laws?

 

[Rob Roy]

Actually they weren't trying to get the feds to lay off of pot so much as they were trying to enforce those same state's rights that everyone seems to claim exist until those state's rights infringe upon ideology. Since when did the Fed believe it was their place to enforce state and local laws?

I don't think state's have "rights" nor do I think the Federal gov. does. People have rights. The most essential right is peaceful self determination. I agree with you people have blinders when it comes to their ideology. For instance some people purport to be for leaving others alone, then they want the government to act as their strongman to make other people do something they have no interest in doing. Odd huh ?