A Tale of The Tape HPA vs 21st Century Flood and Drain

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
how do you plan on making the concentrate? i can give some personal exp. with extractions since i mad one recently. i did burn the shit out of my plants but no mites so far they really dont like my mix(tomato leaves, garlic pressure cooked and strained +, pepper Cinnamon and rosemary alcohol extract + neem)

So far haven't burned my leaves, but see lots of black (cooked) bugs. Basically just took a couple hand fulls of jalapenos and slow boiled them into a concentrate. Mixed it with soap + borax. took a couple of spray's to see bugs turn black RIP fuckers
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
hell yeah never thought about adding borax good tip. well sounds like it worked i used a ver very concentrated version at first much more than pepper i believe it is the tomatoes leaves extract that is causing the burn on my plants but that organic spray shit works so long as its fresh. im glad to hear it worked out for you tho.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Since Big Girl F1 (Sat dom) thus far has refused to finish under a high red blend, I replaced one of the CWs yesterday with an ATI Special Blue Actinic. Will monitor and report
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
hell yeah never thought about adding borax good tip. well sounds like it worked i used a ver very concentrated version at first much more than pepper i believe it is the tomatoes leaves extract that is causing the burn on my plants but that organic spray shit works so long as its fresh. im glad to hear it worked out for you tho.
I used it to super wet the RO water in hopes that it would better penetrate the bugs. The Borax alkalinity did not cross my mind

Forgot to mention also dealing with Aphids. My bad for not inspecting the plant I finished for a friend last grow. Prior to that I never had pests indoors. Same Rx applies, but damn they don't die off that quickly.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
As a result of heavy spraying for SM + Aphids I neglected to rinse after a couple hours. This went on for several days. The 'primary' leaves that are left have dried to a crisp. This would likely be a disaster in any other medium than hydro/aero as the roots get multiple feedings each day.

I do think the Blue bulbs that I replaced the CWs with (though they are blue, too) has increased the height of the trics, and possibly the quantity
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Lighting

Found this on Rive's thread over at ic. It validates the need for green, with one important caveat that I think has bee missing from various threads/conversations/discussions both here (RIU) and elsewhere- other grow sites...

Actually, recent studies show that plants do use green light. This
utilization only kicks in when the blue and red have hit saturation levels.


 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Big Girl F1 gave it up today. I decided it was time, mostly because I had so damaged the leaves with a too strong chili juice concentrate to exterminate the aphids/spider mites. PLUS, I neglected to rinse it off after a few hours. I repeated this process for 3 days increasing the strength each time until I finally saw the aphids burn up. Probably 80%+ of the leaves were at least 50% crispy.

I do think replacing the 2 Coral Waves with ATI Special Blue Actinics did increase the trics, but they were only swapped out ~ 10 days ago.

The good news is the buds are big, heavy, and tight.

I trimmed the crispy leaves before taking these pics

IMG_1045.jpgIMG_1046.jpgIMG_1047.jpgIMG_1048.jpg


I have 2 plants left. The larger plant from the hpa and the older clone, which I placed into the F & D to see whether she will fatten up at this late stage.

I neglected to take pics. To late today- lights are off
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
Big Girl F1 gave it up today. I decided it was time, mostly because I had so damaged the leaves with a too strong chili juice concentrate to exterminate the aphids/spider mites. PLUS, I neglected to rinse it off after a few hours. I repeated this process for 3 days increasing the strength each time until I finally saw the aphids burn up. Probably 80%+ of the leaves were at least 50% crispy.

I do think replacing the 2 Coral Waves with ATI Special Blue Actinics did increase the trics, but they were only swapped out ~ 10 days ago.

The good news is the buds are big, heavy, and tight.

I trimmed the crispy leaves before taking these pics

View attachment 2273977View attachment 2273978View attachment 2273979View attachment 2273980



looks like me and you both ended up with a shitty yield from these fuckn bugs, i got a couple bud pics at the end of my thread. but hell the buds look nice and dank looks like it will be some decent smoke, you got to rinse good with these organic sprays they can leave a nasty after taste last week or 2 i rinse with water only daily almost. but i hope your bud turns out great check out my porn if you get the chance.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Yeah, after the damage was obvious, I heavily sprayed ~ 6xs a day to rinse

People who love spicy flavors will love BG F1 :fire:

Charging the camera battery. More pics in a few...
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Neither of these plants turned AS crispy as BG F1, so I decided to see how much they will recover under better growing conditions. The plant now in my F & D was hanging out in my tub bubbler. Both had SM/Aphids and were sprayed with chili juice, hence the damaged leafs.

HPA


This plant now has the pod chamber to itself. Hoping for more & better root hairs to develop further driving the plant. Notice the growth spurt along the top cola.

IMG_1049.jpgIMG_1051.jpg


F & D

This is a clone from the original mother that I used to make the cross. The hpa plant is from one of the cross seeds




IMG_1050.jpgIMG_1052.jpg



 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
lol "dilute" pf "dilute"

yeah i pop up a few pics of my crappier stuff but i got some of the same bad burning too most of those can probably recover give them a week or 2 maybe they will turn it around.
i tossed about 30 grams wet off of one plant because it was burnt up so bad.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
lol "dilute" pf "dilute"

yeah i pop up a few pics of my crappier stuff but i got some of the same bad burning too most of those can probably recover give them a week or 2 maybe they will turn it around.
i tossed about 30 grams wet off of one plant because it was burnt up so bad.
I started with a diluted concentrate, but aphids persisted, so I kept increasing without considering rinsing.

 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I almost forgot to check my root ball.

It is similar to my hpa root ball, but fluffier, which is a good thing. More surface area for nute uptake. No spaghetti strings.

I think the lp misting from the top made this happen. The result is quite a bit better than my first attempt, where apparently the Bellagio technique was providing too much flow; a ~ 10 second 'flood' provided 1+ liters of nutes.

My new method distributes < 0.5 liter in 1-2 minutes. This gentler cascading seems to be more conducive, creating an abundance of soft, fluffy roots


IMG_1053.jpgIMG_1054.jpgIMG_1055.jpg
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
thos are fucking awesome roots! did you ever see the pic of my roots from soiless all organic growing very fluffy too.

im not sure which page in my journal but it towards the beginning.

but thats how roots should look!
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
A brother-in-arms on another site has just posted some excellent GREEN nm info.Now, if I only understood what it means...

Active chlorophyll blocks penetration of blue and red to the inner chloroplasts, green makes it all the way to the middle.

This is a higher light intensity phenomenon, lower light levels do not activate the blockage. Although green has 1/15 the absorption rate of red, leaf reflectance gives each green photon 5 strikes before exiting the canopy. At 80% DLI levels green exceeds the energy absorption of blue.

HGL grow lights are 15% green, 10% blue, one of the parameters used for choosing the brand. I spent a year with a test room running spectrum and intensities past budding plants, overwhelming information load. I had to pick and choose, hopefully I chose correctly, this grow is the test.


Also learned more about green light in the real world of the grow room. This is third visit with green, getting stuck on an idea is sometimes a perk.

A review of lab work (not mine) on green light, only enough numbers for ratio's.

Red blood cells and chloroplasts, chlorophyl came first and hemoglobin copied the molecule atom for atom except the magnesium center, hemoglobin uses iron and transports oxygen, chlorophyl uses magnesium and transports hydrogen.
This is brought up for the color change blood goes through, veins are blue but bleeding is red, color change from blue to red when active. Not sure what color inactive chlorophyl is but activated it turns green. The inside of the leaf is bright green, no red or blue gets through the cloroplasts once they are fully active. The effect begins about 50% of DLI, Daily Light Integral, the maximum light a perfectly environed leaf can use.

That is the research condensed to basic. Test room did not bear this out, adding green at 800 umol eventually bleached the leaves but did not appreciably increase growth.

When the current LED's were put in the 15% green was a factor, spacing ended up at 750 umol as more did not increase growth. Green was added to the tune of 250 umol extra and yellow leaves came right back again. Green removed. Twice failed.

Research on a long day plant needing very intense light led to the tight beam Magnum's putting 1350 umol on the plant when the beams crossed. Surprise surprise surprise, a stray MJ plant adjusted and began growing.

300 watts per square foot, all previous tests stopped at 130 as the benefits quit there. 110 grew the same as 130 so no reason to go further.

Green was added to the 1350 umol, bringing it to 1577, more than the leaves could take. NO yellow, this time the green helped. Wattage grew to 380 watts per square foot and can only cool six square feet.

But the green breakpoint happens at 90% DLI when the red/blue blockage is almost total, in nature this happens midday if the sky is clear. Not overly practical inside a house.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
thos are fucking awesome roots! did you ever see the pic of my roots from soiless all organic growing very fluffy too.

im not sure which page in my journal but it towards the beginning.

but thats how roots should look!

Page 8 post #72? Yep, very efficient. The problem is, most people do not understand the saying "As Below, So Above"
Unless of course, you burn the tops with too hot chili juice. :fire:

A couple guys helped me learn about HPA roots, so I new what to work toward, but honestly, I had no clue, just an intuition that the lp mist heads would be better than my Bellagio idea. And FYI, the roots are orange/red due to the lava rock, not the nutes, which are clear

 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
red orange roots is normal probably from the run off chili juices or the rocks ive heard of stained roots from hydroton too.

like i say more roots more fruits. and or also, more shoots
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Tokengator: I guess you don't have enough posts for a PM.

Growing outdoors in FL is difficult due to extreme heat/humidity. If you live in the Gvlle area or north, you could get one outdoor grow in, BUT, you need to read up on mold, and bugs that are likely to infest your grow. DO NOT even consider aero until you have enough experience under your belt. My DIY 21st Century F & D is virtually fool proof and super simple.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
red orange roots is normal probably from the run off chili juices or the rocks ive heard of stained roots from hydroton too.

like i say more roots more fruits. and or also, more shoots
It's not the amount of roots that counts. DWC growers have massive roots, but they are extremely inefficient
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
It's not the amount of roots that counts. DWC growers have massive roots, but they are extremely inefficient
well they are feeder roots inefficient how? at nutrient absorption yes at water usage, no. i would depend on how you look at the system for the most par yes your right but you have to take in what ALL is going on, for those systems the root design is optimal.
 
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