canndo
Well-Known Member
Nowhere on this site has this been "proven".
saw a 99% and Obama bumper sticker on the same car
- Thread starter deprave
- Start date
Nowhere on this site has this been "proven".
InCognition
Active Member
You can think that no one goes to jail for tax related incidents, just because nothing happened to yourself, all you want. Your own personal experience does not portray the outcomes of all who have committed tax "crimes". To think that your experience is universal, is just being naive.
There is no theft in society demanding that I contribute? Wait, what are taxes? They are a forced monetary obligation, demanding that I contribute.
That doesn't mean that all taxes are theft, but to lump any fee the government mandates on a whim, under the classification of a tax, it should be easy for one to see why the government could impose an unjust tax, for the sake of funding the establishment and it's illegitimacies. It's well known the government doesn't just fund the establishment for the purpose of it's existence... it also funds it's irresponsibilities through what we call taxes. When I, or anyone else is paying for these irresponsibilities through the facade of a "tax", that is when a tax is no longer a tax, but more so a form of theft, established through the "legitimacy" of a tax.
Again not all taxes are theft, but it should be very easy for you to understand what I'm saying. Then again, you're the one who thinks that we are a Christian nation, so who knows where your head is at. If you've been under a rock for a while, roughly 50% of America is non-religious, and that percentage is on a steady increase for the non-religious portion. So on that note, we will never be a Christian nation, but you can have your pipe dreams as you wish, because those are free choice as well, and free-choice is actually what this country is supposed to be.
canndo
Well-Known Member
Agreed, anecdotal evidence is rarely worth much, but no one here has been able to show anyone who has gone to jail simply because they didn't pay their taxes.
This government could indeed impose what might be viewed as unjust taxes. You have recourse in this country by running for office, voting for those who feel the way you do or working for their campaigns. Not all taxes are fair but when you go to the zoo you don't get to pay less than the admission price because you don't like zebras and don't intend to visit them.
I don't think my taxes should pay for the military but I do enjoy the relative safety that military provides and the lack of threat by foreign governments tends to keep our economy on a realitively even keel - I profit from that, as do you.
InCognition
Active Member
While I'm not going to go searching around for solid, hard-fact evidence that a specific individual has been thrown in jail, for tax reasons, other than blatant fraud... I will say that in Washington, refusing to pay sales tax is classified in the court of law, as "theft of state property", in which you very well can go to jail for.
Of course the government tries to settle with people before jailing them, as the defendant can't pay taxes in jail. You have to understand though, all it takes is one bad judge, on a very bad day, to sentence someone in such a case to jail time, if their attorney is unable to defeat or lessen the charges in such a case.
The voting in this country is broken beyond a reasonable doubt, so me personally, I ignore that, as I just personally perceive voting in it's current state, to be nonsense. The whole zebra comparison with zoos, really has no bearing on the point I'm making.
The military is of course needed, just not anywhere near the size and location in which they are currently operating. The actual "threat" of foreign governments towards the USA is very small, and would be much more so non-existent had we not occupied so many countries on the premise of "safety", because it's obvious these occupations worsen the security of the USA. And the moneys derived from taxes in order to uphold and support this wide-spread military intervention, is purely bullshit conduct on behalf of the government.
canndo
Well-Known Member
Ok, so you maintain something that you are unwilling to prove - how about IRS statute that defines failure to pay as a crime punishable by incarcertion, that will do. I think you are talking about witheld sales tax, We are talking about income tax.
The zebra thing is accurate to the point I am making, that you cannot pick and chose, that one tax is theft yet another is not, you may not agree with one tax or another but they are part of the whole. Now I don't know about you, but my taxes are lower than they have been in 10 years or more, I can't figure out why all the whining, how low do you expect them to be?
I agree that the military is too big, so what parts are you going to claim are the parts that amount to theft and what parts are legitimate?
You are staying at a luxury hotel, the view is great, you have excelent security, the bed is turned down every evening, there is a candy on the pillow, you get every movie channel on the big flat screen, the elevator works, the service is great but because that guy downstairs in the basement is given scraps from the kitchen you don't want to pay your bill.
InCognition
Active Member
Likewise, you maintain something you are unwilling to prove. Tell me that no one has gone to jail for tax reasons... and prove it. I am talking about taxes period, you are now directing the topic to "income tax" only.
It's accurate to the point you're making because you point lacks to make much logical sense. The thing is, you directed the Zebra topic towards my argument, in which it holds absolutely no bearing, and is just a terrible comparison at best.
If taxes are lower than they have been in 10 years for you, that's great. I guess they should be even lower, because the government is still illegitimately raping you via taxes, whether you want to realize it or not. In all reality the taxes probably should be higher than they are, in an attempt to pay for this convoluted, financial, shit-fest the government has created. If they do that though, people will really catch on, so with 10-year lows, let's just assume you're getting a break.
I personally think that the occupation of all other countries are the avenues of theft, regarding the money derived from taxes, in order to fund these occupations. We should only defend our borders, airspace, and waters, while setting some ships up in the oceans further from our boarders for direct/immediate response situations, that is all.
The bogus political & private interest wars are undoubtedly theft too. Vietnam would be a prime example. The Afghanistan war would be another very good, current example.
I have no idea where this analogy is coming from. I'll answer it, though it seems to be entirely irrelevant...
I payed for the hotel room, I didn't ask for security, I didn't ask my bed be turned down, I didn't ask for candy, who cares about having all movie channels, the elevator is supposed to work - there are stairs which are fine as well, and the service is great because the hotel hired that guy for what he is willing to work for, and he does a great job. Yes, I do want to pay my bill, because I chose to accept a service from a company that was offering it. The employers offered a job to the guy in the basement, who accepted it. Again, what does this have to do with?
If you were trying to prove a point, it didn't seem to work, even though I fail to understand what it relates to.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
[h=1]PART I - GENERAL PROVISIONS[/h] TITLE 26, Subtitle F, CHAPTER 75, Subchapter A, PART I.
Sec. 7201. Attempt to evade or defeat tax. 7202. Willful failure to collect or pay over tax. 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax. 7204. Fraudulent statement or failure to make statement to employees. 7205. Fraudulent withholding exemption certificate or failure to supply information. 7206. Fraud and false statements. 7207. Fraudulent returns, statements, or other documents. 7208. Offenses relating to stamps. 7209. Unauthorized use or sale of stamps. 7210. Failure to obey summons. 7211. False statements to purchasers or lessees relating to tax. 7212. Attempts to interfere with administration of internal revenue laws. 7213. Unauthorized disclosure of information. 7213A. Unauthorized inspection of returns or return information. 7214. Offenses by officers and employees of the United States. 7215. Offenses with respect to collected taxes. 7216. Disclosure or use of information by preparers of returns. 7217. Prohibition on executive branch influence over taxpayer audits and other investigations. [h=2]AMENDMENTS[/h]
1998 - Pub. L. 105-206, title I, Sec. 1105(b), July 22, 1998, 112 Stat. 711, added item 7217. 1997 - Pub. L. 105-35, Sec. 2(b)(2), Aug. 5, 1997, 111 Stat. 1105, added item 7213A. 1982 - Pub. L. 97-248, title III, Sec. 357(b)(2), Sept. 3, 1982, 96 Stat. 646, struck out item 7217 "Civil damages for unauthorized disclosure of returns and return information". 1976 - Pub. L. 94-455, title XII, Sec. 1202(e)(2), Oct. 4, 1976, 90 Stat. 1687, added item 7217. 1971 - Pub. L. 92-178, title III, Sec. 316(b), Dec. 10, 1971, 85 Stat. 529, added item 7216. 1958 - Pub. L. 85-321, Sec. 3(b), Feb. 11, 1958, 72 Stat. 6, added item 7215.
[h=1]Sec. 7201. Attempt to evade or defeat tax[/h] TITLE 26, Subtitle F, CHAPTER 75, Subchapter A, PART I, Sec. 7201. [h=2]STATUTE[/h]
Any person who willfully attempts in any manner to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $100,000 ($500,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. [h=2]SECTION REFERRED TO IN OTHER SECTIONS[/h] This section is referred to in sections 5684, 7501 of this title; title 7 section 12a; title 8 section 1101; title 18 sections 1956, 3237. SOURCE
AMENDMENTS
EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1982 AMENDMENT
Is This Specific Enough For You?
canndo
Well-Known Member
deprave
New Member
Really? anecdotal evidence is rarely worth much, but nobody has any anecdotal evidence?
people go to jail for not paying taxes all the time, its not something rare.
canndo
Well-Known Member
I cannot prove a negative, you know this, I cannot prove that no one has been arrested or jailed on account of failure to pay, you must present instances where they have. And we have always been talking about income tax. I have stipulated that failure to pay child support or wages is grounds for arrest.
The zebra thing is a way of demnstrating that you can't pick and chose what you get for your money if it is a package deal. You don't get to decide that you don't like portions of that package deal and claim that you shouldn't have to pay. I don't like funding several federal programs but the fact remains that I either fund them all or none of them, and the only real way for me to refuse to fund them all is to not avail myself of ANY services, and the only way I can do that is to take myself and my investments to another country - where it is likely that I will again have to pay toward things I don't think I need.
No, you didn't ask for security and the bed or the candy, but you get them as a part of the hotel package. Some pay more for less, some get more and pay less. If I get my hotel reservations from Hotels.com and the guy up the hall paid full price, that doesn't mean I owe him anything because I got the better deal.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
so therefore i must post the entire US Code, as well as the Code of Federal Regulations and the Code of Regulations, Regulations of the Internal Revenue Service, the Opinions of the Attorney General, the Opinions of the Legislative Analyst's Office, and every trasnscript of ever supreme court hearing ever, in their entirety. and then youll TLDR it or try to weasel it into saying what you want despite the superior weaseling of the irs legal team and the biggest weasel farm in the world, the halls of congress.
thus i am left with only one option,
you must experiment. refuse to file your returns this year, then refuse to pay the bill sent later, then send the IRS a letter expressing your doubts as to their power (you might also wish to insult their mothers and compare their genitals to some diminutive object) and then wait for their response.
I Double-Dog Dare You!
canndo
Well-Known Member
I told you doc - I already did that. I filed two years, showed the amount I owed and didn't pay - ever, the total before taxes and penalties came to about 40k.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
and they havent gotten around to giving you all their steamy hot lovin yet?
meh, then you must be right, theyll never dare touch you.
give my love to Ronnie Duetsche when you get to your triple max slam where youll never see daylight again. dont forget, 30 mentol kools will get you a surgical shine job, so you can see who's sneaking up on you in the dark.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
? i do not follow? this is the us code and the irs code of regulations up there. Canndo may claim he can avoid paying taxes but for all we really know, he could be posting from the prison library internet terminal
Those would have helped a lot of less fortunate people.
sfttailpaul
Active Member
I have 1 Kennedy 4 president bumper sticker as well as 3 Nixon ones. Any takers? They'd look great on any 60's car...
canndo
Well-Known Member
Statute of limitations my friend, there is a statute of limitations on all monies owed the IRS. If you can avoid paying anything to them for 10 years, if they are unable to hit you for a dime during that period you are home free and so I am.
I'd take the Kennedy off your hands and even give you a Ross Perot sticker.