How much MAM-2201 to herb ratio?

[Stillbuzzin]

Just thought Id bring this thread back for this:http://thechronic-le.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-they-make-so-called-synthetic.htmlIts a video on how to make it. Its easy, you mix the MAM 2201 in an acetone solution and simply evenly spray it onto damiana leaf. Im ordering a gram of mam 2201, and an ounce of damiana leaf on tuesday to try this. This makes for a 1 gram - 1 ounce rationwhich is very strong. your supposed to do 750mg - 1 ounce. But Im no pussy Plus I sorta have a tolerance so its okayIll keep you guys posted haha

Please tell me your kidding

 

[Nullis]

How's this for irony... Heroin has been around and in use for well over a century; morphine and related compounds (i.e. raw opium) for much much longer. Heroin\morphine have been used extensively and researched quite extensively within the medical\scientific community for the past several decades such that we know how such compounds work and what kind of effects present with short-term\long-term usage. We know that morphine and related compounds are psychologically and physically addictive (stopping abruptly after prolonged use results in a physical withdrawal syndrome). We know morphine is a depressant; it slows breathing and heart rate and can do so to the point of death at high doses and in less tolerant individuals. We know morphine will cause your pupils to constrict, it also causes constipation which can be severe. Morphine in particular may also possess some degree of hepatic and renal toxicity if used long-term, perhaps more-so in those who already have liver\kidney disease. And we also know what morphine\heroin do not typically do... such as cause brain damage, damage to the heart, or any other major organ (this is one reason why it is so frequently used in medicine).

These research chemicals, on the other hand, have not seen such wide-spread use (not even in lab animals!). Some of these chemicals may have been first administered to humans less than a decade ago. Their long term effects, especially with frequent use, are entirely unknown!

 

[high|hgih]

Yes, but here is something to think about. Morphine is isolated out of opium. Then is engineered to make heroin. Morphine and heroins long term, and short term effects are quite similar. Yet heroin is so much more illegal because since it comprises of more components, there are generally more side effects. Also they used to use heroin as a pain medicine and cough syrup until morphine was made.

Now these research chemicals are not to shy of original drugs. They are analogues. Mescaline is a phenthylamine, mushrooms are tryptamines(DMT). Most RC's mimic their chemical structure and produce similar effects. It would make a lot more sense if the long term and short term effects are at least similar to that of their illegal drugs. Of course some of that would also have to do with HOW similar they are.

I doubt this goes for the cannabinoids(well not cannabinoids anymore, the AM/MAM compounds are tryptamines). At first it did. I doubt jwh 018 is near as harmful as AM 2201. JWH is more subtle, like marijuana. Now AM/MAM or some of the newer ones will rip your mind to shreds.
I think the health of these is more determined by the indivisual. Ive read things about people using synthetics for years and they are fine. I used synthetic marijuana for the longest time. I recently kicked the habit so this thread is obsolete unless you yourself want to learn how.

In that case its all in the thread your a thousand-aire.

 

[cannabineer]

Yes, but here is something to think about. Morphine is isolated out of opium. Then is engineered to make heroin. Morphine and heroins long term, and short term effects are quite similar. Yet heroin is so much more illegal because since it comprises of more components, there are generally more side effects. Also they used to use heroin as a pain medicine and cough syrup until morphine was made.

Now these research chemicals are not to shy of original drugs. They are analogues. Mescaline is a phenethylamine, mushrooms are tryptamines(DMT). Most RC's mimic their chemical structure and produce similar effects. It would make a lot more sense if the long term and short term effects are at least similar to that of their illegal drugs. Of course some of that would also have to do with HOW similar they are.

I doubt this goes for the cannabinoids(well not cannabinoids anymore, the AM/MAM compounds are tryptamines). At first it did. I doubt jwh 018 is near as harmful as AM 2201. JWH is more subtle, like marijuana. Now AM/MAM or some of the newer ones will rip your mind to shreds.
I think the health of these is more determined by the indivisual. Ive read things about people using synthetics for years and they are fine. I used synthetic marijuana for the longest time. I recently kicked the habit so this thread is obsolete unless you yourself want to learn how.

In that case its all in the thread your a thousand-aire.

Two instances of dissent:

The bolded is incorrect. Heroin is a single-component drug as is morphine. Its regulation has to do with its very fast effect when injected or smoked.

Also MAM-2201 is not a tryptamine, but a 3-alpha-napthoylindole. cn

 

[high|hgih]

Morphine effects are very fast when injected, Ive never smoked morphine so I don't know about that..
Why would it make morphine so much more used? I bet 99% pure heroin would be much much more prevalent at killing pain. I know for a fact some high quality dope will have you more painless than a rock.

Same goes for morphine really though...

But hmm, I read somewhere that AM 2201 was a tryptamine I guess thats wrong too? Then I was just assuming that MAM would be one as well. I mean all it has is an added methyl ring

 

[Nullis]

Heroin is diacetyl-morphine... it is merely a molecule of heroin with the addition of two acetyl groups. The acetyl groups increase is permeability through the blood brain barrier, but once inside the brain heroin breaks down rapidly into morphine (after 6-monoacetyl-morphine). Experiments with ex-addicts have supposedly shown that there is no subjective difference between heroin and morphine when equipotent doses are injected. I tend to disagree, as personally whenever I've injected morphine (from tablets) I seem to experience a greater histamine release, pins and needles in the spine and neck which at the very least distracts from the enjoyment of the rush.

 

[Skuxx]

When I used to make it, I would get almost 2 ounces of plant material for every 1 gram JWH-081. It was pretty strong stuff, too. I'm not sure how potent MAM-2201 is as I quit spice a while ago... but I assume it's the same process with acetone and a spray bottle pretty much. 2 ounces per gram is the same as 20mg/gram... which is not gonna freak out newbs, but it's still decently strong.

it's good money.

 

[high|hgih]

Damn! MAM 2201 is VERY potent. As far as it compares to JWH, I think its much much more... Fun jwh can have the same effect though with higher dosages. AM, and MAM are just incredibly strong.

I might have said this in this thread already but a friend of mine made his with AM 2201, and some JWH compound all put into one spice. We were smoking it one time and my other buddy wanted to try some. He was told no because he'll freak out and could die since he'd never smoked spice before. Well guess what? He smoked it anyways, surprised he didnt have a fuckin heart attack he looked pretty gross.. But he was fine like an hour and a half later

 

[RawBudzski]

wait, so you're unable to grow good pot yourself so your next best idea is to concoct some home made smokers choice pack? After a week of you making this "bank", they will realize their money is better spent on mexibrickweed.

 

[Nullis]

Here's a very good real-world example of why ingesting research chemicals you got in the mail likely originating from some laboratory in China might not be the best idea (I can't believe this didn't come to mind before)...

Once upon a time a grad student named Barry Kidston realized that reversing the ester of the meperidine skeleton yielded a synthetic opioid drug just about as potent as morphine. The drug was Desmethylprodine (MPPP) and at the time was not a controlled substance. This was all well and good... but Kidston failed to realize that, at high reaction temperatures and under acidic conditions, the intermediate tertiary alcohol tends to dehydrate. So when he used propionic anhydride (an acid) at an elevated temperature to esterify the intermediate, he unknowingly formed significant amounts of MPTP as an impurity.

Even MPTP itself isn't very toxic, and it crosses the BBB. However, the enzyme MAO-B will metabolize it into 1-methyl-4-phenylpyridinium (a cation, MPP+) which is very neurotoxic. Basically, the MPP+ selectively kills dopaminergic neurons in the region of the brain known as the substantia nigra, and after just days symptoms of Parkinson's disease become apparent. The damage and the symptoms are permanent, though the symptoms are some-what treatable. This is what happened to Kidston and several of his friends with whom he shared his drug; they began experiencing serious Parkinson's-like symptoms a few days afterwards. It has happened to others in isolated instances as well.

Interestingly enough, testing the compound on rats generally fails to show such significant toxicity or development of Parkinson's-like symptoms due to differences in how rat-brains metabolize MPTP (they have less MAO-B).

The point is just because chemicals are analogs or share the same basic skeleton\structure, that should by absolutely no means be any assurance that the new[er] compound is as 'safe' as the parent\better known compound. It's still a huge unknown as to how the new drug differs in pharmacology and physiology. The negative effects may not be as pronounced, severe or quick to show up as was the case with MPPP\MPTP, but there is still great risk involved. And as the MPTP example illustrates, the problem may not even lie with the new compound itself as advertised, but some metabolite of that compound, some impurity of origin or manufacture or even a metabolite of such an impurity. Unless you have access to a lab with GC\MS or other analytical chem equipment there is no way for you to even know exactly what compound(s) you were sent or what kind of impurities might be present.

 

[dirtsurfr]

really???? Wouldn't it be easier to just tell the OP he's a dumb ass??
1/2 the people here have no idea WTF what that says...

Here's a very good real-world example of why ingesting research chemicals you got in the mail likely originating from some laboratory in China might not be the best idea (I can't believe this didn't come to mind before)...

Once upon a time a grad student named Barry Kidston realized that reversing the ester of the meperidine skeleton yielded a synthetic opioid drug just about as potent as morphine. The drug was Desmethylprodine (MPPP) and at the time was not a controlled substance. This was all well and good... but Kidston failed to realize that, at high reaction temperatures and under acidic conditions, the intermediate tertiary alcohol tends to dehydrate. So when he used propionic anhydride (an acid) at an elevated temperature to esterify the intermediate, he unknowingly formed significant amounts of MPTP as an impurity.

Even MPTP itself isn't very toxic, and it crosses the BBB. However, the enzyme MAO-B will metabolize it into 1-methyl-4-phenylpyridinium (a cation, MPP+) which is very neurotoxic. Basically, the MPP+ selectively kills dopaminergic neurons in the region of the brain known as the substantia nigra, and after just days symptoms of Parkinson's disease become apparent. The damage and the symptoms are permanent, though the symptoms are some-what treatable. This is what happened to Kidston and several of his friends with whom he shared his drug; they began experiencing serious Parkinson's-like symptoms a few days afterwards. It has happened to others in isolated instances as well.

Interestingly enough, testing the compound on rats generally fails to show such significant toxicity or development of Parkinson's-like symptoms due to differences in how rat-brains metabolize MPTP (they have less MAO-B).

The point is just because chemicals are analogs or share the same basic skeleton\structure, that should by absolutely no means be any assurance that the new[er] compound is as 'safe' as the parent\better known compound. It's still a huge unknown as to how the new drug differs in pharmacology and physiology. The negative effects may not be as pronounced, severe or quick to show up as was the case with MPPP\MPTP, but there is still great risk involved. And as the MPTP example illustrates, the problem may not even lie with the new compound itself as advertised, but some metabolite of that compound, some impurity of origin or manufacture or even a metabolite of such an impurity. Unless you have access to a lab with GC\MS or other analytical chem equipment there is no way for you to even know exactly what compound(s) you were sent or what kind of impurities might be present.

 

[cannabineer]

I for one appreciated the bit o'history. cn

 

[dirtsurfr]

History?? It's news to me.
So will this make me eat someones face if I smoke this?
Turn you into a Zombie or just a comma?

1 more reason to legalize pot.

 

[Grojak]

If pot is legal and you smoke a lot of it that is laced you'll get munchies and love control and eat faces!!!

 

[cannabineer]

History?? It's news to me.
So will this make me eat someones face if I smoke this?
Turn you into a Zombie or just a comma?

1 more reason to legalize pot.

The MPTP debacle was a tale of cowboy medicinal chemistry made exceptional by the nastiness of the outcome. Fortunately it was isolated, so unless you can score some fake smack from the 70s you're pretty well protected. cn

 

[Nullis]

History?? It's news to me.

It started in 1977 when Kidston came upon a research paper by Albert Ziering, who worked for Hoffmann-La Roche pharmaceutical company. The compound MPPP was first synthesized way back in the 1940's as an analgesic. Other instances happened throughout the 1980's as other clandestine drug manufacturers saw it's potential as a legal heroin substitute and failed to recognize the sensitive nature of the synthesis.

 

[Florida homeGrown]

Yes, but here is something to think about. Morphine is isolated out of opium. Then is engineered to make heroin. Morphine and heroins long term, and short term effects are quite similar. Yet heroin is so much more illegal because since it comprises of more components, there are generally more side effects. Also they used to use heroin as a pain medicine and cough syrup until morphine was made.

Now these research chemicals are not to shy of original drugs. They are analogues. Mescaline is a phenthylamine, mushrooms are tryptamines(DMT). Most RC's mimic their chemical structure and produce similar effects. It would make a lot more sense if the long term and short term effects are at least similar to that of their illegal drugs. Of course some of that would also have to do with HOW similar they are.

I doubt this goes for the cannabinoids(well not cannabinoids anymore, the AM/MAM compounds are tryptamines). At first it did. I doubt jwh 018 is near as harmful as AM 2201. JWH is more subtle, like marijuana. Now AM/MAM or some of the newer ones will rip your mind to shreds.
I think the health of these is more determined by the indivisual. Ive read things about people using synthetics for years and they are fine. I used synthetic marijuana for the longest time. I recently kicked the habit so this thread is obsolete unless you yourself want to learn how.

In that case its all in the thread your a thousand-aire.

Just to stop you there heroin was not used until morphine was invented.morphine was discovered first.you have to have morphine to make heroin.it's the same drug it just metabolized faster as heroin,which after crossing blood brain barrier turns right back to heroin.heroin is only morphine processed with acetic acid.diacylmorphine is chem name of heroin.heroin (pure) has been shown to cause no damage to body or brain tissue.it's only not medically used in USA because of addictive properties and stigmata from govt past.now they make oxymorphone which is same shit.so don't compare our greatest accomplishment by the Bayer pharmaceutical company heroin to spice.by way bayer 2nd wonder drug invented was aspirin.which kills liver more than any other drug dam near.

 

[vro]

Why not jusrt sell oxys people will kill someo.e just to get their next fix

 

[Florida homeGrown]

Why not jusrt sell oxys people will kill someo.e just to get their next fix

Because even here(Tampa bay where 90 percent of the country's oxy are written) they are selling for $30 a pill (30mg) and you have to go to 20+ pharmacy s to find them.last year everyone was switched to dilaudid,then those rose to 25 for 8mg.so everything was too expensive.only alternatives,heroin or methadone.heroin is king but heroin dealers don't take medicaid.so either quit, sell heroin,sell pu$$y for dope or get on methadone.most people do a mix of all these options.or move to Puerto Rico where bag of fire heroin cost 3 dollars lol

 

[Florida homeGrown]

But Google newest research chemical aka legal drug (for moment) example spice n bathsalts, it's called acetylfentanyl and is ten times strong as heroin and legal for moment.