I just heard as of 2013 or something they are changing the laws regarding Medical MJ?

[beginner.legal.growop]

My buddy told me that he heard all medical marijuana laws are changing as of 2013 and all dispensaries are going to be shut down by 2014. They will still be keeping the laws regarding owning medical cannabis, but you wont be able to buy it? Basically he said that they were going to close the clubs, but still allow patients to receive medical marijuana through caregivers or you will have to grow it yourself? I am sure he is probably confused, or he may of just heard something about a bill that was trying to be passed, and he may have thought it was already being made law.

He thought maybe they were doing this because it would be the first step towards legalization of Cannabis?


If anyone has heard anything about this please let me know.

 

[Eksellent]

That would be great, but I have not heard of anything such as this.

 

[Dan Kone]

My buddy told me that he heard all medical marijuana laws are changing as of 2013 and all dispensaries are going to be shut down by 2014. They will still be keeping the laws regarding owning medical cannabis, but you wont be able to buy it? Basically he said that they were going to close the clubs, but still allow patients to receive medical marijuana through caregivers or you will have to grow it yourself? I am sure he is probably confused, or he may of just heard something about a bill that was trying to be passed, and he may have thought it was already being made law.

He thought maybe they were doing this because it would be the first step towards legalization of Cannabis?


If anyone has heard anything about this please let me know.

I'm unaware of anything like this happening. It contradicts all current state laws, so it would be major legislation. They would have to completely wipe out SB420, possible even prop 215, and reverse every single judicial decision ever made regarding medical marijuana. Seems like that would be front page news.

 

[beginner.legal.growop]

hmmmm, well I guess he was wrong.

 

[Dan Kone]

hmmmm, well I guess he was wrong.

Sounds like it. I don't think it's possible for the state government to get rid of the collective system in favor of a caregiver system. Prop 215 specifically uses the word collective, so collectives are protected under our state constitution. Voter initiatives in Cali are a form of direct democracy, which supersede decisions by elected state officials. It would require another ballot initiative to get rid of collectives. The only thing that supersedes a voter approved ballot initiative is federal law. But our state legislature is incapable of overruling prop 215 regardless of federal law.

 

[beginner.legal.growop]

The federal government could stop it at anytime they wanted. All they would have to do is stop funding those states with federal money. But yeah I guess he was wrong.

 

[curious2garden]

The federal government could stop it at anytime they wanted. All they would have to do is stop funding those states with federal money. But yeah I guess he was wrong.

Well no it's not as simple as that. Federal program funding of State programs usually has criteria related to the programs they are funding so stopping highway funds for example would not be legal etc.... Any Federal punitive action to the States would have a much higher bar and there would be immediate challenges by the States.

 

[itsaplant]

As things stand, clubs are fucked. Just like Vegas was ran by cowboys in the 70's and were kicked out.

Any one that tells you its not happening does not have a car or has no way of actually checking that clubs are closing down.

http://hopenetcompassion.org/home/ SF Bay

http://www.lakeconews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=25408:xxx&catid=1:latest&Itemid=197 Lake county

What you will have is thousands of micro grows in every yard. And I think this is great but people that cant grow will need safe access.

I dont want to google this crap but safe access to meds are in question, so http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2012/06/norml_ag_eric_holder_lied_to_c.php

And plus you cant trust any one to support OUR LAWS that we sood in the rain for DECADES to get passed http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2012/06/norml_ag_eric_holder_lied_to_c.php

Im voting this year! You bet! Im voting for my dog, one more vote snatched from democrats because they are not Democrats!

But no one will bother you for a few plants in your back yard but thats not what 215 was about, were supposed to band together collectively and funny enough thats actually what communism is when we become a corporative.

TIME FOR MOTHER FUCKING CHANGE,

 

[TogTokes]

I hope it happens.. Fuck stores and their 18 dollar grams on "Fire" lol!

 

[Dan Kone]

The federal government could stop it at anytime they wanted. All they would have to do is stop funding those states with federal money. But yeah I guess he was wrong.

Well the federal government can indeed arrest anyone at any time, ignoring state law. But neither the executive nor legislative branch can directly wipe out a state law, even through putting pressure on the state by cutting off funding. The only way they could get rid of the state law is to have the AG sue the state, and then make their case in the courts.

The reason this hasn't been done yet is because it would likely end up a supreme court case where the federal government would lose. The federal policy on medical marijuana is obviously absurd, inconsistent, and would be interpreted as violating not only states rights, but citizens rights. Bringing medical marijuana to the federal justice system would likely over rule the federal government policy on mmj all together.

Right now we possibly have the worst supreme court of all time. But one thing they would agree on is states rights when it comes to granting individual liberty. The liberal wing would support personal liberty when it comes to medical marijuana, and the conservative wing of the supreme court are essentially libertarians who would vote in favor of states rights. Both sides would agree and that would wipe out out federal policy. Probably wouldn't even be a close vote.

So yeah, the federal government can't really do anything in terms of reversing mmj law when it was approved by ballot decision. That's why they are just pretending there is no such thing as medical marijuana and busting people themselves. In federal marijuana trials the words "medical marijuana" can not be mentioned, so the feds are not running the risk of having the cases elevated to the supreme court.

 

[curious2garden]

......snip...... In federal marijuana trials the words "medical marijuana" can not be mentioned, so the feds are not running the risk of having the cases elevated to the supreme court.

Bingo! Well said. If there was going to be litigation on this issue it would have happened prior to 1998. But the last thing the Feds want is amicus curiae briefs being written and presented Federally on medical marijuana LOL. That's why the DEA has been unleashed on this, effective with plausible deniability written all over it.

 

[Dan Kone]

Well no it's not as simple as that. Federal program funding of State programs usually has criteria related to the programs they are funding so stopping highway funds for example would not be legal etc.... Any Federal punitive action to the States would have a much higher bar and there would be immediate challenges by the States.

You're correct saying it wouldn't be legal, but stuff like that is done all the time. As long as they don't say that is what they are doing publicly, there is no way to prove that's what they are doing.

However it would be pointless. By pressuring the state government to reverse mmj in Cali, the best they could do is get the state legislature to overturn sb420. But even if they did that prop 215 would still stand. Because prop 215 is not clear when it comes to the legality of store front dispensaries, it would likely end up back in the courts, which aren't vulnerable to federal government pressure in the same way the legislature is.

So even if the federal government pressured the state to get rid of laws like sb420, that doesn't necessary make dispensaries illegal. It could have the opposite effect, making them legal. The feds won't take that risk unless they know what they are doing will be successful.

 

[Hemlock]

Dan Kone One Smart Mother Fuker BOY!!!!!! Damn lay it down Brother

 

[Dan Kone]

Bingo! Well said. If there was going to be litigation on this issue it would have happened prior to 1998. But the last thing the Feds want is amicus curiae briefs being written and presented Federally on medical marijuana LOL.

Yep. They'd lose and they know it. Otherwise, they would have pushed for it already.

It's going to happen eventually. There are now 17 states with mmj (dc law is irrelevant here). 7 states have pending mmj legalization laws currently, most of those states have democratic controlled legislatures. If the total number of states with legalized mmj can get up to 26 (over 50%) I think the federal policy will have to be reversed.

But even with 17 states having it legal, the likelihood of a mmj case eventually sneaking out of the state courts and going federal is extremely high. It will happen eventually. And once it does, it's game over for the feds. I see this as inevitable. It's more of a "when" than an "if" at this point.

That's why the DEA has been unleashed on this, effective with plausible deniability written all over it.

Yep. It's the act of a wounded animal trying to defend itself. It's all they can do to postpone federal legalization of mmj. So far,they've been pretty successful. But federal LE has finite resources. They can't simply bust everyone. They don't have that kind of power. Even if they got rid of dispensaries, they can not get rid of private collectives. They don't have the man power for that. Not in Cali at least.

 

[itsaplant]

One must assume state law does not exist with this administration.

 

[Dan Kone]

One must assume state law does not exist with this administration.

Well the federal government is certainly pretending state law doesn't exist. They have to be extremely careful when playing this game though. If they go too far, it'll end up a federal case and then the federal government is fucked. That's why they are witting letters to landlords pressuring the landlords to evict rather than just raiding all these clubs themselves and arresting them. While clubs are getting raided by the feds, they are trying to avoid doing the raids themselves in most cases. And they are being extremely picky in which dispensaries they will actually raid themselves.

For example, they raided Richard Lee. But they aren't actually going to take him to court. Richard Lee was doing a lot more than running blue sky and Oaksterdam. I've been to 2 of his "measure Z" dispensaries which are cash only places and not officially approved by the city. It seems like they busted at least one of these measure Z spots. But even when they did, they didn't press charges on him for selling marijuana. They just had a little talk with him and he retired.

If you look at most of the clubs they've actually raided, the charges were almost never for just selling. Nearly all of them were either in violation of some state/local law, had IRS related charges, selling to out of state people, within 1000 feet of a school, or some other technicality. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think any of these raided dispensaries were charged federally only with distribution of marijuana. There was always some other charge involved. In the cases where distribution was the only charge, the feds might have participated in the raids, but they have local law enforcement make the arrest and file the charges.

Basically, Obama and Holder are being EXTREMELY careful about who they bust and what they bust them for. It's a tightrope walk. They are doing everything they can to bust as many dispensaries as possible while making sure the words "medical marijuana" never appear in any case that could potentially reach a federal court. If they make a mistake by going to far, this will all blow up in their faces.

 

[Hemlock]

Well the federal government is certainly pretending state law doesn't exist. They have to be extremely careful when playing this game though. If they go too far, it'll end up a federal case and then the federal government is fucked. That's why they are witting letters to landlords pressuring the landlords to evict rather than just raiding all these clubs themselves and arresting them. While clubs are getting raided by the feds, they are trying to avoid doing the raids themselves in most cases. And they are being extremely picky in which dispensaries they will actually raid themselves.

For example, they raided Richard Lee. But they aren't actually going to take him to court. Richard Lee was doing a lot more than running blue sky and Oaksterdam. I've been to 2 of his "measure Z" dispensaries which are cash only places and not officially approved by the city. It seems like they busted at least one of these measure Z spots. But even when they did, they didn't press charges on him for selling marijuana. They just had a little talk with him and he retired.

If you look at most of the clubs they've actually raided, the charges were almost never for just selling. Nearly all of them were either in violation of some state/local law, had IRS related charges, selling to out of state people, within 1000 feet of a school, or some other technicality. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think any of these raided dispensaries were charged federally only with distribution of marijuana. There was always some other charge involved. In the cases where distribution was the only charge, the feds might have participated in the raids, but they have local law enforcement make the arrest and file the charges.

Basically, Obama and Holder are being EXTREMELY careful about who they bust and what they bust them for. It's a tightrope walk. They are doing everything they can to bust as many dispensaries as possible while making sure the words "medical marijuana" never appear in any case that could potentially reach a federal court. If they make a mistake by going to far, this will all blow up in their faces.

So do you think they will go to far? I mean It might be the old end around?

 

[Dan Kone]

I hope it happens.. Fuck stores and their 18 dollar grams on "Fire" lol!

People forget what it was like before dispensaries.

When I was in college, you got bud by going to your dealer. He charged $20 per gram, $65 per 1/8. He had one strain available. Sometimes it was good, sometimes it was not. A few times a year he had a real treat, hash made out of year old stale outdoor trim. Maybe once every year or two you could get purple goop hash oil for $60 per gram.

There was no choosing between 50 different strains. There was no multi-tiered pricing. There were no 10 strains of wax to choose from. No tinctures. No edible selections. No wide variety of clones. You couldn't simply go on weedmaps and find whatever product you were looking for 365 days per year. And yes, in the summer time sometimes your dealer would go dry! Then you were really fucked. You'd have to buy from a friend of a friend of a friend. In that case you wouldn't even be able to see the bud before you bought it. You gave a guy some money, and he'd give it to another guy who'd come back with some bud. And that guy who got the bud would pinch a bud out of your sack, then that guy and your friend who called that guy would all expect to be smoked out. When it was all said and done, you ended up with half an 1/8 of usually shitty bud for $65.

I don't really want to go back to that. The "good ol' days" always seem better because we selectively remember the good parts, forgetting about the downside. While it is shitty for dispensaries to sell over-priced bud that probably shouldn't be top shelf at all, they usually have cheaper options that are usually just as good. There really are worse things in the world than dispensaries selling $17 grams.

Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!

 

[Dan Kone]

So do you think they will go to far? I mean It might be the old end around?

I don't know. Obama and Holder are pretty good at their jobs. They've been pretty successful at shitting all over state law without violating the constitution technically. But it does seem like they are pushing real hard. A mistake could easily be made or a judge could give an unexpected ruling. They are definitely playing with fire right now, but they also seem to be pretty good at it. Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[itsaplant]

And all along cheap Meth, Cocaine and cheap harrowin are flooding the streets of the USA.
More pure then ever in history, (Thank Afghanistan and ships fill of "pod Goo")

We have to thank some one for this?

While the blue hared haters clap when the local city governments hand down 3 plant limits and dispensary bans we have streets full of Zombies high on anything but cannabis.

Facts will tell when clubs are shut down crime can escalate by 60% Rand study.