Unprecedented Move! Norway Abolishes State Church

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
First I've heard about this! The first country has officially decided to abolish their state religion!

In an unprecedented move, the Norwegian Parliament has voted to abolish the state-sponsored Church of Norway with a constitutional amendment.
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The bipartisan measure to create a separation of church and state will officially be presented on Tuesday, reports Norway’s TV2. The nation will not have an official religion, and the government will not participate in the appointment of church deans and bishops.


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Svein Harberg, the spokesman for the Church, Education, and Research Committee stated that the decision “is historic both for the Norwegian Church and for the politicians in Parliament.”


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The Church of Norway began after the Lutheran Reformation in 1536, and was officially called the Lutheran State Church. The state meddled very little in church matters, only quelling unrest when it had to, chose high church officials, and financially supported the church. Opposition from secular groups arose in the 1970s when Norway’s economy boomed and the church benefited.
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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2012/05/norway-abolishes-state-church/


It's only a matter of time before the rest of Europe follows suit. Best news I've heard in a while!
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Very interesting and inspiring, Pad! Europe's all but there already, the positive trend continues and the zeitgeist spreads...
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
First I've heard about this! The first country has officially decided to abolish their state religion!

In an unprecedented move, the Norwegian Parliament has voted to abolish the state-sponsored Church of Norway with a constitutional amendment.
​

The bipartisan measure to create a separation of church and state will officially be presented on Tuesday, reports Norway’s TV2. The nation will not have an official religion, and the government will not participate in the appointment of church deans and bishops.


​
Svein Harberg, the spokesman for the Church, Education, and Research Committee stated that the decision “is historic both for the Norwegian Church and for the politicians in Parliament.”


​
The Church of Norway began after the Lutheran Reformation in 1536, and was officially called the Lutheran State Church. The state meddled very little in church matters, only quelling unrest when it had to, chose high church officials, and financially supported the church. Opposition from secular groups arose in the 1970s when Norway’s economy boomed and the church benefited.
​


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2012/05/norway-abolishes-state-church/


It's only a matter of time before the rest of Europe follows suit. Best news I've heard in a while!
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Maybe we will follow suit here in America too ...
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
Carne Seca said:
umm... we don't have a state sponsored religion.
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We don't? Not on the book perhaps but quick- name the first Atheist Elected Official that comes to mind?

WHY are they calling Obama a Muslim ?

And Ron's Flock, you all spout off at taxes - Why on earth should I have to pay taxes when those crooks don't? They don't even have the respect to Launder it, they do it right out in the open as if to say :finger: before they go back to :hump:
 
Dislexicmidget2021

Dislexicmidget2021

Well-Known Member
I wonder what finaly triggered Norways governing body to make the move for abolishment,its great to see.It seems like the idea of a post christian or a post religious society could be a beneficial example for the world to see.We need it in the U.S. more than ever,What precipice do we need to overcome so that it could start here in the U.S.?
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
the ego of some people is amazing. they see only what they want and insist that anything that doesn't go along with their narrow view of the world must be conspiracy. de facto state sponsored religion? since when has the u.s. government actually sponsored any religion? the favoritism shown to christianity (i don't doubt that's what you are referring to) is minimal and the natural reaction in a democratic society where the vast majority of its citizens are adherents to that creed. are christian churches given any special privileges above those of other religions? do we see government unduly influenced by the church itself or is it the people themselves, approximately 80% of whom identify themselves as christian, who make their will known?

while i'm certain that someone will take exception to my use of the term "conspiracy", this is exactly what is implied when we speak of "america's state religion". any religious favoritism, in a country where the separation of church and state is a founding concept, must be covert. we all too often see such accusations made when any minority is displeased with the actions of the majority, whether it actually affects them or not.
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
undertheice, Religion IS a conspiracy. The catholic church was created by the Powerful Few, Constantine? The Rulers as a way to control the masses. Religion demands unquestioning obedience to authority. They still use it very successfully today, you are the poster child.
Here are a few christian leaning priveledges:

Priests do not have to testify in a court of Law on anything Confessed

Priests don't go to jail for fucking boys

Every Federal Holiday pretty much

The catholic church pays no taxes, not even property tax. They are not a charity, they hoard land and only distribute their wealth among themselves. Then the Feds dish out even more to them.

Abortion Laws.

Abstinance Only Sex Education by Law most of the last decade.

Blue Laws

Dry Counties

No Gay Marriage

Swearing on the Bible in a court of Law
Creationism taught in public schools

Please chime in folks it goes on and on and on
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
...yes, religion is a conspiracy. You and the God within. And, all of the sht that happens in the world was happening before religious 'organization' - point the blame back to your big band then if you're going to spout off...there is no defining line - right?
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
MellowFarmer said:
Religion IS a conspiracy.
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by the very definition, everything is a conspiracy. only our most private personal moments can be considered to be completely devoid of interaction with others and even those may be subject to outside influences. now let's separate the conspiracies of individuals from those of organizations. are we supposed to believe that your laundry list is the result of the organized interference of religion as a distinct entity or, what is more likely, that it is the decisions of individuals within a democratic society that have enabled these things to come to pass? can religion remove choice?

once again ego rears its head and masquerades as reason. would you like me to tear down each item on your list? should we start with the fact that all religious institutions are to be exempt from taxation, that the rites of all religions are to be respected by governing authorities or perhaps that it is the ethos of the nation, the morality co-opted so long ago by the promoters of religion, that guides our approach to the law? no, what you choose to blame on religion is that the choice of the people so often goes against your own desires and wishes.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
the ego of some people is amazing. they see only what they want and insist that anything that doesn't go along with their narrow view of the world must be conspiracy. de facto state sponsored religion? since when has the u.s. government actually sponsored any religion? the favoritism shown to christianity (i don't doubt that's what you are referring to) is minimal and the natural reaction in a democratic society where the vast majority of its citizens are adherents to that creed. are christian churches given any special privileges above those of other religions? do we see government unduly influenced by the church itself or is it the people themselves, approximately 80% of whom identify themselves as christian, who make their will known?

while i'm certain that someone will take exception to my use of the term "conspiracy", this is exactly what is implied when we speak of "america's state religion". any religious favoritism, in a country where the separation of church and state is a founding concept, must be covert. we all too often see such accusations made when any minority is displeased with the actions of the majority, whether it actually affects them or not.
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Do we have national holidays for Muslims? Jews? Hindus?

How do you feel a Muslim would do running for president in this country? There may not be an overt recognition of Christianity by our government, but you would have to be blind not to see the bias.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Do we have national holidays for Muslims? Jews? Hindus?

How do you feel a Muslim would do running for president in this country? There may not be an overt recognition of Christianity by our government, but you would have to be blind not to see the bias.
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do we need a lesson in the basics of any society? look back to the origins of this nation and you will find predominantly christian ideology. nearly 80% of this country identifies itself as christian. is it any wonder that the natural bias should be toward christianity? what should also be remembered is that the holidays of other creeds are also honored and that no one is forced to participate in christian traditions. all you have managed to do is point out that the traditions upon which so much of our lives are based are the traditions of our forefathers, men who based their moral code on the ethics of their religion. of course there is a bias, it is the bias of a people for their own set of ideologies. it is the same bias any culture must embrace in order to survive intact.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
do we need a lesson in the basics of any society? look back to the origins of this nation and you will find predominantly christian ideology. nearly 80% of this country identifies itself as christian. is it any wonder that the natural bias should be toward christianity? what should also be remembered is that the holidays of other creeds are also honored and that no one is forced to participate in christian traditions. all you have managed to do is point out that the traditions upon which so much of our lives are based are the traditions of our forefathers, men who based their moral code on the ethics of their religion. of course there is a bias, it is the bias of a people for their own set of ideologies. it is the same bias any culture must embrace in order to survive intact.
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The same could be said for countries that have an official state sponsored religion. I don't see much difference here except for the formal acknowledgment by the government.
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Do we have national holidays for Muslims? Jews? Hindus?

How do you feel a Muslim would do running for president in this country? There may not be an overt recognition of Christianity by our government, but you would have to be blind not to see the bias.
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...how do 'white' people do when trying to become a part of another country's governing body? Has it ever happened?
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
The same could be said for countries that have an official state sponsored religion. I don't see much difference here except for the formal acknowledgment by the government.
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the difference is that one is based on the traditions of the people themselves and the other is a matter of laws enforced by the state. that "formal acknowledgement" makes all the difference in the world. no matter how close we may get, the people and the state are not the same thing. "the people" is made up of individuals, each with no more real power than any other. "the state" may represent the will of the majority or merely of those with the power to bend others to their will, but it cannot represent each individual. in either case, "the state" must always make use of force to achieve its ends. that force, when used to enforce the dogma of any religion, negates the free will of the individual. this is the worst case scenario of state sponsored religion. even in a less repressive society a state sponsored religion must unduly influence the actions of and receive preferential treatment by the state. though the end result may seem no different, the means by which we reach that result differ greatly. one is a matter of individual choices influencing authority, the other is a knee-jerk reaction of central authority.
 
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