A Tale of The Tape HPA vs 21st Century Flood and Drain

[dickkhead]

It's really strange to me, all the info is out there, to be able to do what A and tf do, but it seems everyone tries to put their own spin on it, or make it better before they even get it to work how it is proven to work, or perhaps cut a corner here or there. The problem is the info really has to be followed to a T in my book. Only then once you have gotten the results can you decide how to change things up or experiment. I guess a major part of it is that the methods and mindset for HPA practically go against everyting your mom ever told you about LP aero (if she was that cool- lol). So I think people that have never ran aero or hydro before likely have a better chance at going HPA successfully- although they're the least likely to subscribe to it.

It's painfully clear to me that you can't get HPA to work without an accumulator, or without a large enough chamber- or without the right nozzles, or without the right timer capable of the fractions of a second increments and short runs of JG line from the solenoids to the misters. For some reason everyone comes into this thinking they can get by without one or two of these things, and they end up with the world's most expensive and complicated sprinkler setup. I wouldn't be surprised if old fashined soil wouldn't outperform some of the frankenstein HPA system attempts out there I've seen.

This is so true my system that I bought didn't perform until I had added all of those variables and my chamber was still to small but I managed to get through my first grow!! one thing about chamber do you guys think it's best to have an insulated chamber? And sealed off tight? I'm using led lighting so temps are 75-85 deg

 

[PetFlora]

TB From what I am seeing, closely following your threads, it's a hard nut for you guys, too.

Not yet ready to scrap my stripped down hpa version, but miracles will need to happen in quality v my much simpler, and less finicky F & D.

In the end, we experiment to find what does/doesn't work for us. I would say without a doubt the stroll down hpa lane has made me a more knowledgeable grower

 

[Trichy Bastard]

TB From what I am seeing, closely following your threads, it's a hard nut for you guys, too.

Not yet ready to scrap my stripped down hpa version, but miracles will need to happen in quality v my much simpler, and less finicky F & D.

In the end, we experiment to find what does/doesn't work for us. I would say without a doubt the stroll down hpa lane has made me a more knowledgeable grower

Very true, we all get into this for more reasons than just growing, it's a love of experimenting and searching for the best way to do something. I know you have learned alot, and we have also learned alot from your posts as well, thanks for that.

I'm sure Bob didn't mean to offend you, let just move on and remember there are so few of us we can't afford to not get along.

Funny thing is, I thought you were calling him on (BS) but realized you were addressing his name- lol good chuckle over that one...

 

[Trichy Bastard]

This is so true my system that I bought didn't perform until I had added all of those variables and my chamber was still to small but I managed to get through my first grow!! one thing about chamber do you guys think it's best to have an insulated chamber? And sealed off tight? I'm using led lighting so temps are 75-85 deg

Having the chamber sealed is a good thing, no light should get in, and I noticed air coming in generally dried things out and threw them out of balance, but perhaps in a smaller chamber this is a good variable to help things dry out? Chamber temps are better around 65-70 and under 75f, but you're not too far off the mark. Perhaps just chilling your jg coils with some ice water could be an experiment to try and see what that brings your temps down to. Maybe some reflectix on top of the chambers will be enough to reflect the light's heat away, and the mist itself will pulldown the temps into a good range.

 

[PetFlora]

TB: Thanks for your thoughtful insight.

At the end of the day it's all about what works for the individual. Here, where this time of year RH inside the pod gets high, a bit of unsealed pod can be a good thing.

 

[PetFlora]

My 'quick & dirty' method is to lay down a layer or 2 of HD Aluminum foil to block any light coming in from above. I have lots of 5/8" holes around the sides from experimenting with mist head positioning, but they do not seem to let enough light in to be a problem. (EDIT: I decided to look carefully; too much light getring in the side holes, so I taped over them. Be interesting to see whether this had anything to do with roothairs.)

I also trim long runners from my roots without apparent set back

Now back to ME, I'm going to take a couple new pics.

The plants in hpa are not growing taller, but are filling in nicely.




The F & D plants shot up several inches + the leaves are much bigger than Friday's photo. The big one (hand photo) is now >8" above the high walls + the top is ~ 14" diameter.

 

[PetFlora]

HD/Lowes also carries foam backed 4 X 8 sheets with reflective material for < $25.

Now please, this conversation has nothing to do with MY journal

 

[PSUAGRO.]

The F&D diy system is working great......The babies are reaching up for that BB(good to see it back in working order)..........Good luck with your HPA setup pet....

 

[Trichy Bastard]

HD/Lowes also carries foam backed 4 X 8 sheets with reflective material for < $25.

Now please, this conversation has nothing to do with MY journal

Sorry 'bout that, just figured with all the updates about your grows on my thread that I was cashing in on some credit- lol... Then again, you're just getting this thing started here and my thread has turned into a catchall for all the random HPA news.

Definitely those plants are looking great pet- this is good stuff for you. Can't really get any healthier looking than that!

 

[PetFlora]

Yep, it is most satisfying when an idea comes together, but the signs were there from my last (first) F & D go round.

As to the hpa, it may well be that I would need to add all the other parts to see what it's fully capable of. Will wait until they hit mid-flower in my F & D before I decide to mothball the hpa after this grow, at least until such time that I get the urge. Hopefully the guys currently doing HPA & AA will post plant pics, so I can have something to compare against.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

cool. Have you ever seen g-love's journal? lots of pics...

 

[PetFlora]

Got a link?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Got a link?

You have to sign up as a new member and wait to be accepted a few days. Once you're in, use the search box to search for members "G-Love" and any of his posts have his sigs with links to all of his 4 diaries. You have been at hp too long to not be inspired by his journals, definitely take a look.

 

[dickkhead]

Yea once I read his threads it inspired my latest chamber size and to continue Hp aero In general

 

[The Lurker]

Hi PF,

Thanks for putting your recent efforts 'down on paper'. Always good to see others try to push the envelope a bit.

Only problem with implementing systems of increasing complexity is that they have a greater chance for something to go wrong also. If you can get them to work however, they can be very nice indeed.

Otherwise, if one can get 85-90% of the way there with simpler setups, it becomes a question of effort vs. what other things can be optimized also.

Kudos to you for trying.

-----

Also, nice to see more folks not trying to over-feed their plants. A common problem I've found, even among 'experienced' growers. Sometimes, less is more.


Cheers,

-TL

 

[PetFlora]

You have to sign up as a new member and wait to be accepted a few days. Once you're in, use the search box to search for members "G-Love" and any of his posts have his sigs with links to all of his 4 diaries. You have been at hp too long to not be inspired by his journals, definitely take a look.

Is he on 420? I got banned, and don't know why

 

[PetFlora]

Sorry 'bout that, just figured with all the updates about your grows on my thread that I was cashing in on some credit- lol... Then again, you're just getting this thing started here and my thread has turned into a catchall for all the random HPA news.

Definitely those plants are looking great pet- this is good stuff for you. Can't really get any healthier looking than that!

HA HA! Turn about is fair play BS was the primary problem, and I wanted to nip far off topic Q & A in the bud. On IC journals, the journalist controls the delete button

 

[PetFlora]

Hi PF,

Thanks for putting your recent efforts 'down on paper'. Always good to see others try to push the envelope a bit.

Only problem with implementing systems of increasing complexity is that they have a greater chance for something to go wrong also. If you can get them to work however, they can be very nice indeed.

Otherwise, if one can get 85-90% of the way there with simpler setups, it becomes a question of effort vs. what other things can be optimized also.

Kudos to you for trying.

-----

Also, nice to see more folks not trying to over-feed their plants. A common problem I've found, even among 'experienced' growers. Sometimes, less is more.


Cheers,

-TL

By overfeed do you mean ppms?

On my first go round with my prototype F & D, I was pushing ppms to 1500 without issue- barely burned tips. However, this time I wanted to compare methods as closely as possible. It's hard to imagine that doubling the ppms (twice the cost) would produce a better result than I am getting now.

Keepin an eye on the F & D: it grew another 2" since Saturday. Will likely reduce to 12/12 by Friday. Thinking to keep it there for about 5 days then head down to ~ 11/13... 10/14. Y/N?

Should I add some Red Lifes now, or wait until the flip? Currently using 2/6 FloraSuns + 2/6 AquaSuns+ 1/6 Quantum Grow + 1/6 Coral Wave.

Waiting on a replacement tombstone; it melted due to arms being too far apart when I assembled it. Tech talked me through how to correct (small strap under reflectors that goes across the spine- the holes are too small. I drilled them a little and now have snug fitting bulbs, but only 6/8 which is all I need to cover the canopy, until I flip; then 8/8 but for shorter hours.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Is he on 420? I got banned, and don't know why

yes, strange, can you just start a new profile for viewing the journals?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

By overfeed do you mean ppms?

On my first go round with my prototype F & D, I was pushing ppms to 1500 without issue- barely burned tips. However, this time I wanted to compare methods as closely as possible. It's hard to imagine that doubling the ppms (twice the cost) would produce a better result than I am getting now.

Keepin an eye on the F & D: it grew another 2" since Saturday. Will likely reduce to 12/12 by Friday. Thinking to keep it there for about 5 days then head down to ~ 11/13... 10/14. Y/N?

Should I add some Red Lifes now, or wait until the flip? Currently using 2/6 FloraSuns + 2/6 AquaSuns+ 1/6 Quantum Grow + 1/6 Coral Wave.

Waiting on a replacement tombstone; it melted due to arms being too far apart when I assembled it. Tech talked me through how to correct (small strap under reflectors that goes across the spine- the holes are too small. I drilled them a little and now have snug fitting bulbs, but only 6/8 which is all I need to cover the canopy, until I flip; then 8/8 but for shorter hours.

It seems most growers nowadays "tune" their nutes to as much as possible, just short of burning them. I have a different opinion and try to use as little as possible just short of any deficiencies. I think high ppms slow down growth and cause lockouts and the plant can only use what it can use... I think you run a good ppm level pet- the plants are telling us so.