farmers markets

[FatMarty]

I think it should be totally legal like vegetables or wheat..I mean I can grow it so leave it alone...jeez...anyway....then they would be fine...but alas it is not the way of things yet...

Actually the SCOTUS upheld the governments ability to deny you both the right to grow wheat AND marijuana in two past cases that are now being used as arguments in the health care act case before the Court right now.

The 4 Best Legal Arguments Against ObamaCare[h=3]Why the president's sweeping health care overhaul should be struck down by the Supreme Court.[/h]Damon W. Root | March 24, 2012
(Page 2 of 4)


3. The Individual Mandate Cannot Be Justified Under Existing Supreme Court Precedent
Defenders of the individual mandate will tell you that of course Congress has the power to compel every American to buy health insurance from a private company. “Under an unbroken line of precedents stretching back 70 years,” argues liberal University of California law professor Erwin Chemerinsky,“Congress has the power to regulate activities that, taken cumulatively, have a substantial effect on interstate commerce.”

It’s true that the Supreme Court has greatly expanded Congress’ regulatory powers. In the 1942 case of Wickard v. Filburn, the Court held that the Commerce Clause allowed Congress to forbid an Ohio farmer named Roscoe Filburn from growing twice the amount of wheat permitted by the Agricultural Adjustment Act and then consuming that extra wheat on his own farm. In 2005, the Court reinforced this decision, holding in Gonzales v. Raich that medical marijuana cultivated and consumed entirely within the state of California still counted as commerce “among the several States” and was therefore open to federal regulation.

Yet neither of those precedents stretched the Commerce Clause so far as to allow Congress to regulate inactivity—such as the non-act of not buying health insurance. As the National Federation of Independent Business argues in its brief, “uninsured status neither interferes with commerce or its regulation nor constitutes economic activity. Instead, the uninsured’s defining characteristic is theirnon-participation in commerce.”

The Supreme Court has never before granted Congress the unprecedented power to regulate inactivity under the Commerce Clause. If the Court sticks to its own precedents, it won’t do so now.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/03/24/4-best-legal-arguments-against-obamacare/1

I know this is a bit off-topic; but it is the governments ability to strongarm US when they don't want to follow the law or the Constitution and our timid responses that enable it.
After getting away with it for awhile they feed US ObamaCare without regard for law or even severability clause.
Here in Michigan the government does all it can to not implement the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act and the current AG is a zealot who sure doesn't fear a few potheads.

Unfortunately before Joe Cain was MMMA - back when this law first passed - guys like Bob were MMMA, and they were afraid to face AG Cox with a request for finding of fact on the law.
The Governor was a Democrat and she was opposed to the medical law and did nothing to help.
Cox was the Republican AG and all the activists thought he would be a Bill Schutte type.

Cox recently came out and said the medical law was meant to shield and should be implemeted as intended with dispensaries, and clear rules for participants.

It's not Bobs fault - most everyone was scared - and watching Bill Schutte is indeed an education in how far we've fallen.
I remember everyone going to Lansing and demanding that Cox act.
This was in the first days of MMMA.

Cox sent a letter to the MDCH telling them he needed a formal request to make any finding and that he needed specific questions to investigate.
I brought that up to the management and was told it was a ruse and that I was falling for a fake attempt from Cox to look like he would do his job.
Too bad. He was willing to do what no one else has been willing to do since.

Point of this little story is that you fuckers screaming at everyone and demanding shit need to shut the fuck up and let the adults sort this out now that you have fucked everything up beyond recognition.

Have a nice day.

 

[jonnynobody]

Sorry bout the presumption there glad. Damn buddy had me all fired up.

Bliss: and the hospitals are run by high ranking doctors And who are the hospitals in bed with? The insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies. Couldn't imagine who the puppet masters are that are tugging the strings.

 

[jonnynobody]

fatmarty, not sure that I grasped the point of your rant but I enjoy your enthusiasm.

btw, the raich case was a piece of shit decision by the SCOTUS upheld by bullshit fascist ideology. It was by no means based on constitutional authority. Then again all that crap goes back as far as the new deal legislation and fdr...shit I've gone and depressed myself. Time to "medicate">>

 

[bob harris]

I agree Glad. Exactly why I chose chiropractic, exercise and cannabis at the tender age of 14, over oxys, a knife and a scare from my asshole to my head. And dammit all, that dumb choice allowed me to have to work the majority of my life, though through pain in doing so...


And i ll be damned if I still can work, though with a little help from our green friend. but in the world according to bob, even if i qualify, im a criminal, cuz im not confinded to my home like an invalid ready to die, who has been blessed by Bill Schuette and bob with the ability to utilize a little cannabis as I Die in the next few weeks.

How Honorable of them to allow me this reprieve.

There ya go again....I'm not defining anything...the law, as written, defines the conditions eligible for medical cannabis. The only qualifying condition change that I'm aware of, is the bill already passed excluding glaucoma..which I am against, as it's probably the most documented illness that cannabis helps. Now, it would still have to gain a super majority to pass, but if you want to fight a bill..that's one you should.

 

[bob harris]

Can you afford them bob? No. so what about the guy that wasnt as fortunate as you with your life, career, or ability to make lots of money while you COULD work?

Ive worked my entire life. I have zero in savings, and no job, no ins, at the moment, but I have it lucky. What about about those not even as fortunate as I am bob?

by your logic, they should be imprissoned due to the inability to live UP to your Standard of human existence. Perhaps we could bring back those warm ovens from 1944 Germany, that could bring the FINALE Solution you seem to be seeking here.

My Dr bills are a huge burden. I lost everything when I became ill. I have no savings. I am fortunate to have Disability payments, but they are not that much money. I have simply learned to survive with what I have. Your logic seems to be more of the warm the ovens type..sounds like that's where you want to put anyone who is or has been successful..including politicians.

Tell me, where on this earth would you move to to have more freedoms than you do in The United States? What time period was better in all of history? You must have an answer, because if you don't, then your complaining that the freest country in the world, with the overall best standard of living, is screwing you...help me understand what you'd like?

 

[Timmahh]

There ya go again..There i go again stateing Facts and Truths. Damn me and my just ways.

I'm not defining anything.you are defining, you are defining everybody is guilt but you, the guy that openly admits to growing Pot before the 08 MMM Act. the law, as written, defines the conditions eligible for medical cannabis And you willingly ignore much of it. The only qualifying condition change that I'm aware of, is the bill already passed excluding glaucoma.WRONG, Incorect, FUCKING NOT CORRECT, Not TRUE, False and a TOTAL Misunderstanding of how your FUCKING State Governmnet works. Bob you should turn off the computer before you hurt yourself, or worse SOMEONE ELSE. THIS IS NOT A LAW< IT IS NOT A FACT< IT IS NOT PART OF THE ACT< NOR CAN IT NOW EFFECT THE ACT you FOOL. This bs BILL, not a Law, but a god damn motherfucking bill by that fucktard Senator Rick Jones of GR (VOTE THIS BITCH TO THE CURB), got through the Senate. No it needs to to go the HOUSE, WHERE WE HAVE BEEN BUSTING OUR MOTHERFUCKING ASSES, Laying our dicks out on the fucking Judicial Bench of the House of Reps, beating the fucking war drum to maintain 5 to 6 no votes from the Mi House of Reps.....Understand how your fucking government works before you purpose to speak the fact about the Law, which you are severely darylic in understanding.


which I am against. We can agree on something atleast. as it's probably the most documented illness that cannabis helps. Now, it would still have to gain a super majority to pass, but if you want to fight a bill..that's one you should.

Um Bob, in all your wisdom, maybe you should shut the fuck up, set back, MEDICATE YOUR SELF< and watch the House of Reps Videos.
I don't need someone that obviously has no clue on how shit works, telling me how shit works.

 

[Timmahh]

My Dr bills are a huge burden. I lost everything when I became ill. I have no savings. I am fortunate to have Disability payments, but they are not that much money. I have simply learned to survive with what I have. Your logic seems to be more of the warm the ovens type..sounds like that's where you want to put anyone who is or has been successful..including politicians.

Tell me, where on this earth would you move to to have more freedoms than you do in The United States? What time period was better in all of history? You must have an answer, because if you don't, then your complaining that the freest country in the world, with the overall best standard of living, is screwing you...help me understand what you'd like?

if everyone puts there head up their ass, and just accepts what the government tell us to do, nowhere bob. thats my goddamn point. We are LOSING the only fucking bastion of purposed freedom on the fucking earth, and your wondering where else i would go. in two or 3 more fucking years bob, its not going to fucking matter. pull your head out of your tuckus and look the fuck around you man, Good God.

 

[bob harris]

if everyone puts there head up their ass, and just accepts what the government tell us to do, nowhere bob. thats my goddamn point. We are LOSING the only fucking bastion of purposed freedom on the fucking earth, and your wondering where else i would go. in two or 3 more fucking years bob, its not going to fucking matter. pull your head out of your tuckus and look the fuck around you man, Good God.

Timmahh..seek psychological help, for your own good. You are just angry and anti everything.

 

[Timmahh]

not quite bob. I have a purpose and I stand up for it.

 

[bob harris]

Um Bob, in all your wisdom, maybe you should shut the fuck up, set back, MEDICATE YOUR SELF< and watch the House of Reps Videos.
I don't need someone that obviously has no clue on how shit works, telling me how shit works.

Well. it appears you may not know how 'shit" works.

You see, when a law is voted in, there are only so many days allowed before it must be enacted. Therefore, the law is vaguely written, and put in place to meet that dead line. After that, bills are voted on to clarify and flush out the law. That's what's happening now..was totally expected by anyone that knows 'how shit works' and should be no surprise. Rather than yelling "no bills", which is just ignorant, as there have always been and always will be new bills to clarify laws,(because that's how shit works) you should be concerned with how those bills are worded...BEFORE they get to vote.

I'm writing my rep ENCOURAGING bills...like the definition of A "PLANT" Id like to know if a cutting is counted before it has roots. So I can obey the law. I'd love to see a bill that defines how access and distribution is supposed to work, something setting guidelines for a dispensary model. I'd like to see a bill asking for testing and certification of cannabis made available for patients is medical grade..and not fungus covered mite filled swag.

All you do is bitch about everything..you have no suggestions to make things work better. You offer nothing that shows even a willingness to discuss the inevitable changes that are coming.

Then you say, there is no place to move with more freedoms than you have in the United States, and seem to agree that overall living conditions here are the best they have ever been anywhere for all of history, but that's not good enough for you....WTF do you want?

 

[Timmahh]

ok bob, when you can convince all the courts in all of the state, including the Court of appeals, that Bill Schuettes opine is not law (which only the MSC Seems to undertand, and a good handfull of circut courts) then maybe something can be tweeked. until then, any change winds up with you in jail...

Bob, Did you read the proposed Act presented by B Schuette's "Clearing the Air" on the MMM Act ALMOST STATE WIDE Private Meetings, errr seminars,, err Discussions, but they certainly wernt guided paths to prosecution, that would be unconstituional?

Have you read HIS Opine of what you voted for on November 7th 2008 in Proposal 1?


you seem to apparently be ok with your rights being subjugated from you, but me, im not so keen on it.

 

[FatMarty]

fatmarty, not sure that I grasped the point of your rant but I enjoy your enthusiasm.

btw, the raich case was a piece of shit decision by the SCOTUS upheld by bullshit fascist ideology. It was by no means based on constitutional authority. Then again all that crap goes back as far as the new deal legislation and fdr...shit I've gone and depressed myself. Time to "medicate">>

Yeah Raich mention was to show how screwed up we are - we accepted that decision without much unrest and now the governent is using it to push ObamaCare on US.
Whether you like the ACA or not matters little - it's the principal of the thing and the results of ignoring the law when it is convienant.
If you stop it at wheat - it goes no further. If you stop it at medical marijuana - it goes no further.
But if you ignore the truth and work on falsehoods and profit - it gets US to today where the Court must decide why 500 elected Lawyers 'forgot' to insert the severability clause. They didn't forget - you rubes.

Sometimes the idiots still get me fired up.

What caused my rant is the fact that had the MMMA.org simply followed AG Cox suggestion we would have answers to all of these grey areas and most likely would have the dispensaries that are regulated like Bob seems to like.

I pointed it out to them, (MMMA.org), before they were even home from Lansing: AG Cox has responded and is willing to work if the proper legal channels were followed.
I explained my limited legal knowledge of the process to them, and they called me a fool who is easily fooled.

Still - I hammered the point home that if you don't face the AG and get a decision, good or bad, you can't move forward for the State.
They responded that 'local control' was the key to this and that it didn't matter what AG Cox did or said.

So I guess it doesn't matter what AG Scheutte says or does either?

We are almost 3 years from the moment when AG Cox offered us up the solution to our plight, and these morons are still arguing over who is best qualified to lead Michigans Medical community.

Joe Cain is making a living telling lies and running 'Farmers Markets" while attorney Able is making a decent living off the CONFUSION that still surrounds this Act.

Now I know that when all this went down that the sheep farmer got scared of success and the ex-cop got gold fever; so there was definately a deficit of leadership at that time.
But the ignorant 'activists' that took the MMMessA they left behind have only alienated most of the community while lying and cheating and talking shit like they care.

In fact the only reason these 'activists' showed up here recently is because NO ONE IS LEFT at the Mess.
I can read every post from a month in ten minutes.
Been that way for a while over there.

It is a failed organization that is run by imbeciles and crooks.

And it has cost Michigan card holders untold grief.

 

[FatMarty]

ok bob, when you can convince all the courts in all of the state, including the Court of appeals, that Bill Schuettes opine is not law (which only the MSC Seems to undertand, and a good handfull of circut courts) then maybe something can be tweeked. until then, any change winds up with you in jail...

Bob, Did you read the proposed Act presented by B Schuette's "Clearing the Air" on the MMM Act ALMOST STATE WIDE Private Meetings, errr seminars,, err Discussions, but they certainly wernt guided paths to prosecution, that would be unconstituional?

Have you read HIS Opine of what you voted for on November 7th 2008 in Proposal 1?


you seem to apparently be ok with your rights being subjugated from you, but me, im not so keen on it.

AG Bill Schuettes findings are in fact the same as law UNTIL OR UNLESS a Court overturns his finding.
It is precedent that local authorities follow the AG's findings unless overturned.

You sure don't understand the process worth a shit.
Thanks for your help; but no thanks.
Your help has made it much worse.
Please stop while we are behind.

 

[gladstoned]

One question rollitup.org and members. One guy came on here and started a thread selling some bullshit portable vaporizer, his thread was deleted cuz you can't sell shit on here. Well why the fuck has Timmahh been on here for over a month selling the 3MA. Most people know how to get to their site and none of us are there. I believe the majority of members think it is a failed group that has isolated itself from the rest of the community, and doing more damage as we speak. Why is the 3MA bullshit allowed, but a guy can't promote a vaporizer. I don't think I could promote a thread about THCfarmer being so awesome and how rollitup members are idiots that want to go to prison. I am not searching for topic to fight about all day, just simply want to know why this is tolerated.

 

[jonnynobody]

Me thinks this thread is shot.

 

[tomcatjones]

There ya go again....I'm not defining anything...the law, as written, defines the conditions eligible for medical cannabis. The only qualifying condition change that I'm aware of, is the bill already passed excluding glaucoma..which I am against, as it's probably the most documented illness that cannabis helps. Now, it would still have to gain a super majority to pass, but if you want to fight a bill..that's one you should.

Sec. 5. (a) Not later than 120 days after the effective date of this act, the department shall promulgate rules pursuant to the administrative procedures act of 1969, 1969 PA 306, MCL 24.201 to 24.328, that govern the manner in which the department shall consider the addition of medical conditions or treatments to the list of debilitating medical conditions set forth in section 3(a) of this act. In promulgating rules, the department shall allow for petition by the public to include additional medical conditions and treatments. In considering such petitions, the department shall include public notice of, and an opportunity to comment in a public hearing upon, such petitions. The department shall, after hearing, approve or deny such petitions within 180 days of the submission of the petition. The approval or denial of such a petition shall be considered a final department action, subject to judicial review pursuant to the administrative procedures act of 1969, 1969 PA 306, MCL 24.201 to 24.328. Jurisdiction and venue for judicial review are vested in the circuit court for the county of Ingham.



WE SHOULD IGNORE THE BILL AND ARGUE TO THEM THAT THE ACT ITSELF HAS INTENT TO ONLY BROADEN THE SCOPE OF THE ILLNESSES AND QUALIFYING CONDITIONS. THE LAW ITSELF IT SET UP TO MAKE SURE IT HAS A SOLID FOOTING TO EXPAND UPON.

 

[bob harris]

sec. 5. (a) not later than 120 days after the effective date of this act, the department shall promulgate rules pursuant to the administrative procedures act of 1969, 1969 pa 306, mcl 24.201 to 24.328, that govern the manner in which the department shall consider the addition of medical conditions or treatments to the list of debilitating medical conditions set forth in section 3(a) of this act. In promulgating rules, the department shall allow for petition by the public to include additional medical conditions and treatments. In considering such petitions, the department shall include public notice of, and an opportunity to comment in a public hearing upon, such petitions. The department shall, after hearing, approve or deny such petitions within 180 days of the submission of the petition. The approval or denial of such a petition shall be considered a final department action, subject to judicial review pursuant to the administrative procedures act of 1969, 1969 pa 306, mcl 24.201 to 24.328. Jurisdiction and venue for judicial review are vested in the circuit court for the county of ingham.



We should ignore the bill and argue to them that the act itself has intent to only broaden the scope of the illnesses and qualifying conditions. The law itself it set up to make sure it has a solid footing to expand upon.

that"s a pretty good argument>>>

 

[Timmahh]

ya think? G, why didnt i think of that and start making posts about how the Mi government is Ignoring the Law passed by the Will of the People.

Seems such a much easier thing to do... lol

 

[bob harris]

ya think? G, why didnt i think of that and start making posts about how the Mi government is Ignoring the Law passed by the Will of the People.

Seems such a much easier thing to do... lol

Yes..why didn't you? You tell ranting stories of injustices carried out by the nazi secret police to quietly rid the world of all cannabis smokers, medical or not, in the country...But you never seem to have a valid point, or to provide something posiyive to work for.

The government isn't going to fall tomorrow...someday maybe, but a true "take up arms" revolution isn't coming soon. Why don't you concentrate on working to improve within the system...rather than preaching "overthrow the system" ?

You may not like the system, but it's the one we have.....There will always be some form of government. Be it a war lord ruling with violence, a democracy, a dictatorship...Timmahh...what would you propose as a system to govern a nation of 350 million? How would you pay for infrastructure...you do like roads don't you? You'd abolish all Police? Because, even though I'd just as soon not talk to them, I'm glad they are around...keeps thugs from taking over..feel much safer.

So Timmahh, lets hear your "ideal" way to run a State, or Country? Please..after all..you keep pointing put what an intelligent guy you are, and how your fighting for the underdog...Tell me how your going to restructure the system..you must have a thought....

 

[jonnynobody]

Shit where's a moderator to close this damn thread? This is not a productive conversation anymore...damn near enough to make me grab a cold one outta the fridge.