Slaughtered by BHO
- Thread starter troutfly
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DreamTime
Member
Just a guess, but it could be that your oil isn't fully purged and it's still got some butane in it.Once again i'm dead, not sure how I'm typing this. BHO through an ICE hookah and it still tears my lungs up. Maybe I'm taking too big of hits? Feels like my lungs are freezing lolAny suggestions because this it the only form of cannabis that's strong enough for me right now...
troutfly
Member
Trust me its fully purged and some of the best medical BHO in Colorado... mountainmedibles.wordpress.com
DreamTime
Member
I went to their site, I only found one pic of their BHO, so my response is based on that one pix: To me, their BHO looks very similar to all the stuff I see at dispensaries here is SoCal.... waxy looking, and almost certainly made from trim instead of bud.
To be blunt, I wouldn't smoke anything that looked that waxy. Even if it's fully purged, there is no reason to have that much wax in your oil unless you use trim instead of bud, spray too much butane (because your trying to maximize on quantity instead of quality), or spray your bud/trim multiple times (again going for quantity over quality).
If the picture I saw looks like what you are smoking, and it's really more of an earwax as opposed to a nice translucent sap, then I would guess your lungs are getting torn up from the waxes and other impurities in the oil.
pharmacoping
Active Member
yup, and butane completely evaporates at room temperature very quickly. problem is, most people are using vector, not n-butane. 5 x filtered means the chunks of lead are mechanically filtered, .. Butane is purified by distillation, not filtration, and vector has more than 12 other gases in it, and an odorant, by law, and mercaptan, that do not evaporate with the butane.
this is what i use, and what oil should look like when cured
this is what i use, and what oil should look like when cured
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DreamTime
Member
According to the Material Safety Data Sheet for Vector, it only contains n-Butane, iso-Butane and Propane. It does not contain any other gases, and it does not contain mercaptan.
Link to Vector MSDS: http://www.vectorkgm.com/catalog/butane/Vector_Gas_MSDS.pdf
dankillerbs
Active Member
Where are you getting your info? Vector has 3 gases (n-butane60%/iso-butane29%/and propane11%) While it may not be as optimal as pure N, its still one of the best over the counter cans you can get.
Mr Miyagi
Member
yea, gonna have to agree...pharmacop u seem a lil misinformed...thats awesome u have a tami though, certainly what most people would rather use...vector def does not have merc in it tho..
also dream time...
regarding the whole wax in the plant material topic etc...
im not sure how i think on this one..
i know this, i use pure top shelf, and when its done vacing, its sap. period. clear semi viscous sap..which smells like the essence of the flowers its made from...
so this appears to not have a bunch of waxes etc...i mean its clear..totally beauty actually..
RIGHT?? WITH ME SO FAR??
FOLLOW ME..
now i take said sap and i stick it on a glass plate..then i slowly add some heat and commence whipping...
now we can assume that i am not mixing wax into my sap on purpose from some outside source...
so how to explain that after whipping it a while, then letting it cure for a bit, it completely turns into earWAX...like super waxxy consistency...which as someone eluded to is what many people like..it is more stable and many times easier to handle..
so now it has gone from a clear sap to waxy..so i would have to say that adding air and heat and changing its structure does not neccesarily mean waxes and or trim concentrate...
ive made bomb looking wax from trim and buds...stuff from buds just tastes way better and is prob a bit stronger...
so i think your statement can be true, in certain instances, i dont think its an absolute though, just like all bho is bad...all butane factories produce different mixes of gas, some with worse shit than others..
see the pluto flake in pic was total yellow/gold clear sap when started...then spread it dried it n scrapped it up...could roll it into a wax ball, but obviously didnt add wax...i think its actually just seems waxy...i dont think its always plant waxes..dried cured stuff can feel like a wax kinda..but the stuff in the pic was made from 100% pure top shelf nugs that tested at almost 22%thc...
anyways, my half cent..
also dream time...
regarding the whole wax in the plant material topic etc...
im not sure how i think on this one..
i know this, i use pure top shelf, and when its done vacing, its sap. period. clear semi viscous sap..which smells like the essence of the flowers its made from...
so this appears to not have a bunch of waxes etc...i mean its clear..totally beauty actually..
RIGHT?? WITH ME SO FAR??
FOLLOW ME..
now i take said sap and i stick it on a glass plate..then i slowly add some heat and commence whipping...
now we can assume that i am not mixing wax into my sap on purpose from some outside source...
so how to explain that after whipping it a while, then letting it cure for a bit, it completely turns into earWAX...like super waxxy consistency...which as someone eluded to is what many people like..it is more stable and many times easier to handle..
so now it has gone from a clear sap to waxy..so i would have to say that adding air and heat and changing its structure does not neccesarily mean waxes and or trim concentrate...
ive made bomb looking wax from trim and buds...stuff from buds just tastes way better and is prob a bit stronger...
so i think your statement can be true, in certain instances, i dont think its an absolute though, just like all bho is bad...all butane factories produce different mixes of gas, some with worse shit than others..
see the pluto flake in pic was total yellow/gold clear sap when started...then spread it dried it n scrapped it up...could roll it into a wax ball, but obviously didnt add wax...i think its actually just seems waxy...i dont think its always plant waxes..dried cured stuff can feel like a wax kinda..but the stuff in the pic was made from 100% pure top shelf nugs that tested at almost 22%thc...
anyways, my half cent..
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pharmacoping
Active Member
http://www.vectorkgm.com/catalog/but...r_Gas_MSDS.pdf
it's interesting that my butane lab analysis shows many gases in 99.5 n-tane, but it would appear(by an incomplete analysis msds sheet) that vector would be more virgin butane than 99.5 !!! bullpucky people. msds sheets are negotiated reprts of ingredients, not a lab analysis.
SECTION II- Summary of Hazards & Composition
SUBSTANCE: Butane Percent: 60.00
CAS#: 106-87-8 Synonyms: n-Butane, Tetrane
SUBSTANCE: iso-Butane Percent: 29.00
CAS#: 75-28-5 Synonyms: 2-Methylpropane, Trlmethylethane
SUBSTANCE: Propane Percent: 11.00
CAS#: 75-98-6 Synonyms: LPG, Dimethylmethane, Propylhydride
EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE! Keep away from heat, sparks and open flame.
60% butane kiddies, what do you think of this? 40% of something else is added to vector.
I attached a 99.5% pure n-butane and it has a shit ton of other gases in it, way less than vector though. there is no misunderstanding on my part concerning gases, or gas additives. problemis these gases do not evaporate at the same rate as butane, and can remain in your bho.
your msds for vector is simply a condensed version of the available gases--n-butane is has an allowable amount of other gases , such as propane.
http://www.vectorkgm.com/catalog/but...r_Gas_MSDS.pdf - it's 11% propane. So if propane has the mercaptans in a concentrate of 10 ppb......
mercaptan is not required to be listed on an msds...and often is listed as sulphur. I would use vector without concern, if I could not get 99.5 n-butane though. mercaptan is not harmful, just smelly. The lab reports no residuals in my tami oil with n-butane, but does show contaminates when I used any other canned butane in the tami !
I understand the need to be able to accept this debate in favor of easily purchased solvent, but we owe it to the forum to be honest about it, and then we each can make our own informed decision. In Oaksterdam U we learned exactly what this debate could possibly entail, including chemists and their drawings, presentations. Even the Vector rep strongly suggested we cannot use their product safely for this purpose, as it would require the refining of the contents to a much purer level, for the sake of health. I am not misinformed, dont want to argue or even debate.
I take this opportunity to share the truth. Some of these ingredients can kill a mj patient with contraindictions, and although that subject may be outside of most growers' experience, it must be my main focus by trade. Each of my patients are the real deal, and I work with their physicians, either during recovery, treatment, and hospice end care. There is no room for interpretation, and these physicians are much more intelligent than I, and supporting my lab results as well as patient results. I've been extracting for some time, am skilled in ancient nepali, lebanese, turkish and even the legendary canna-bosem oil, and bhang(kok) technique.
Just tryin to keep it real for any sick among us.
peace
peace
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pharmacoping
Active Member
yep, now look up the msds for propane....and notice that it is an organ targeting toxin, with inhalation being its route. Knowing that propane and butane do not evaporate at the same rate...it is possible for both the propane and its odourant will be in a vector blast. vector is not required to break down the individual named ingredients, as this is done, somewhat, by that msds.....a listed ingredient of n-butane will not require the sublisting of all the gases that are allowed to be present in the butane.
DreamTime
Member
@Mr Miyagi: Good points. I've never tried deliberately adding heat and whipping my oil to make wax, but I've read about that technique in many places. Assuming that is the case, then my concerns don't apply. In the context of this particular situation where the wax came from a dispensary, I'll remain skeptical for a couple reasons:
We know that extracts can be extremely pure (think TetraLabs PureGold which is around 95%). Now I wouldn't expect someone else's ear wax to be 95% pure, but I would expect it to be a more than the 60%-70% range I frequently see from lab tested dispensary samples. If a dispensaries wax is only 65% THC, then it's 35% something else.... and if it looks waxy, I'm inclined to assume that 35% is plant wax.
The other reason I suspect that the wax dispensaries sell is lower quality is cost. A dispensary could not afford to sell top quality oil that was extracted from top shelf buds for only $40-$50 dollars a gram. If your top shelf bud is %20 percent THC and you spray an ounce of that bud going for quality and not quantity, you won't get more than 5 or 6 grams of oil. Assuming that same dispensary could sell that same top shelf bud for $45 dollars an 8th, they could make $360 selling that oz as bud. As oil they would need to sell it for $60-$70 a gram, but they are not.... which leads me to suspect that their oil is lower quality.
Here's a though for the OP: Have you tried hitting some PureGold instead of the moonrocks? If PureGold tears up your lungs too, then my theory is full of sh*t, but if you can take a hit of PureGold without pain, then we might be on to something..... just a thought.
We know that extracts can be extremely pure (think TetraLabs PureGold which is around 95%). Now I wouldn't expect someone else's ear wax to be 95% pure, but I would expect it to be a more than the 60%-70% range I frequently see from lab tested dispensary samples. If a dispensaries wax is only 65% THC, then it's 35% something else.... and if it looks waxy, I'm inclined to assume that 35% is plant wax.
The other reason I suspect that the wax dispensaries sell is lower quality is cost. A dispensary could not afford to sell top quality oil that was extracted from top shelf buds for only $40-$50 dollars a gram. If your top shelf bud is %20 percent THC and you spray an ounce of that bud going for quality and not quantity, you won't get more than 5 or 6 grams of oil. Assuming that same dispensary could sell that same top shelf bud for $45 dollars an 8th, they could make $360 selling that oz as bud. As oil they would need to sell it for $60-$70 a gram, but they are not.... which leads me to suspect that their oil is lower quality.
Here's a though for the OP: Have you tried hitting some PureGold instead of the moonrocks? If PureGold tears up your lungs too, then my theory is full of sh*t, but if you can take a hit of PureGold without pain, then we might be on to something..... just a thought.
pharmacoping
Active Member
extract should aways be genty heated for decarboxylation to take place, before your lighter or nail hits it. This makes the extract ready for ingestion also, if desired. and will remove more contaminates.
Mr Miyagi
Member
hmm..no doubt dreamtime...them clubs be slingin sum shiat sometimes.....i do think to that while you can add minimal heat and agitate to create a budder, if you use stuff that has not been purged properly, the left over tane and impurities etc will create even more of a "waxxy" type substance...all that gas n shit still trapped in der...so i think it is actually pretty accurate what u said...
underpurged shit CAN be waxxy, because they aint got the shit out...
BUT just because something is waxy, does not unequivocally mean it is shit..
see THIS is the type of dialogue that helps other readers...not some moron coming on here like."NO MAN, UR WRONG!! THATS THE SHITTY WAY TO DO IT..BUT IM NOT GONNA TELL U THE GOOD WAY, (CUZ I DONT REALLY KNOW) "
thats the shit the plagues MOST of the other forums...this aint a pissing match, its an information forum where people come to disseminate and recycle info..
(and this isnt aimed at anyone involved w this post fyi) I just mean in general..too many lame sites where people think the fact that they dont really have a life and have a zillion posts makes them an authority on something other than typing..
most experienced people will have something decent to add to a thread...when your sifting through this stuff loooking for info on how to make ur shit, this is the kinda stuff people wanna read..
NOT some lame internet banter..
SO thanks to everyone that posts like pro.
sorry didnt mean to ramble, i just hate when forums get all phukt off, and even though i certainly have a pretty good handle on what im doing, i learn many things daily...
this site doesnt seem to be as corrupted by bs as some..
ciao
m
underpurged shit CAN be waxxy, because they aint got the shit out...
BUT just because something is waxy, does not unequivocally mean it is shit..
see THIS is the type of dialogue that helps other readers...not some moron coming on here like."NO MAN, UR WRONG!! THATS THE SHITTY WAY TO DO IT..BUT IM NOT GONNA TELL U THE GOOD WAY, (CUZ I DONT REALLY KNOW) "
thats the shit the plagues MOST of the other forums...this aint a pissing match, its an information forum where people come to disseminate and recycle info..
(and this isnt aimed at anyone involved w this post fyi) I just mean in general..too many lame sites where people think the fact that they dont really have a life and have a zillion posts makes them an authority on something other than typing..
most experienced people will have something decent to add to a thread...when your sifting through this stuff loooking for info on how to make ur shit, this is the kinda stuff people wanna read..
NOT some lame internet banter..
SO thanks to everyone that posts like pro.
sorry didnt mean to ramble, i just hate when forums get all phukt off, and even though i certainly have a pretty good handle on what im doing, i learn many things daily...
this site doesnt seem to be as corrupted by bs as some..
ciao
m
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troutfly
Member
^ what he said
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
I like.
Great post.
Wax. LOL. I make "wax" with ice water and bags... and I don't even whip air into it.
Also, over heated sap turns to wax, and glass transfers heat like a mofo.... just to fill that story out.
Emptied a few cans of vector today, smelled like sulfur to me, and my buddy.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
thank you for keeping it 100%. i dont agree with everything you write but you present the obvious truth that no one wants to admit.
torch lighter refills make BLFHO (butane lighter fluid hash oil) not BHO. BHO is totally a misnomer and overlooks the actual contents of the mixed solvents being used. few will ever switch to n-tane, master cases of lighter fluid are easier to get and cheaper.
pharmacoping
Active Member
,
awww man, was thinking all of us waxers agreed on everything. the more I know, the dumber I feel.
hands down, the absolute safest, and legal way to extract marijuana is eloquently described by Matt's contributions, and I thank him much for his time spent in educating the masses.
peace
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
thanks brah
the only part i disagree with is this. butane will not evap from cannabis resin if the resin is not warm. the viscosity of the resin needs to be reduced, to allow the tane to evap. this can be accomplished with the use of 180 degree water bath or hot plate.
- yup, and butane completely evaporates at room temperature very quickly.
For MR M. from an actual chemist
pharmacoping
Active Member
I'm not sure what kind of an asshole trys to mislead a forum, but bho needs to be warmed to enable complete evaporation of at least the butane gas.