tent environment

420forme

Active Member
Ok, well i've been looking around and this is what i've come up with. I will need a new dehumidifier, mine is just not cutting it. Can you recommend a good one, that's not too big?
For my lights, I like the fresca platinum that can utilize my current hoods. Then I'll use a ice box on my fan/filter to scrub, recirculate cooled air. Plus I'll need a 1-1 1/2 HP chiller, with a 200gal. res and tubing. A 1056gph pump for the res. And another external one to run the output? Its starting to look more like $2500. No AC should be needed correct? Where is a good place to get equipment.
Later on I'll upgrade to a water cooled co2 gen. as soon as I figure out how to run off my natural gas line, and everything else is dialed in.
So how close am I?
 

phillipchristian

New Member
Ok, well i've been looking around and this is what i've come up with. I will need a new dehumidifier, mine is just not cutting it. Can you recommend a good one, that's not too big?
For my lights, I like the fresca platinum that can utilize my current hoods. Then I'll use a ice box on my fan/filter to scrub, recirculate cooled air. Plus I'll need a 1-1 1/2 HP chiller, with a 200gal. res and tubing. A 1056gph pump for the res. And another external one to run the output? Its starting to look more like $2500. No AC should be needed correct? Where is a good place to get equipment.
Later on I'll upgrade to a water cooled co2 gen. as soon as I figure out how to run off my natural gas line, and everything else is dialed in.
So how close am I?

You are still a ways off buddy. You definitely do not want to use the Fresca Sol's or Liquid Lumens. I know some guys have success with these products but in my opinion they are not very good and will lead to a ton of problems in the future. You are dealing with a totally different theory in cooling. Yes, they both use water but the Liquid Lumen and Frescal Sol lack one KEY element that the Ice Box has, a heat exchanger. Those two liquid chambers do not work efficiently at all. Plus you are adding a ton a possible problems in the future should one shatter, leak, etc... It's completely up to you but I would recommend against it. If you do decide to use them then you are going to need to oversize your chiller because they are not as efficient as the Ice Box.

As far as a dehumidifier I always use Danby but Sunpentown and Delonghi also make great units. The smallest dehumidifiers are usually 30 pint which is WAY oversized for your tent; but check this one out (http://www.allergybuyersclub.com/sunpentown-sd652-mini-dehumidifiers.html?itemId=2859). I think that would be perfect for your room.

I am not sure where you got a 200 gallon reservoir from but that is not right. I would say you could probably get away with a 35-55 gallon reservoir. The more efficient the chiller the smaller the reservoir can be. In that thread I posted that guy was cooling 3,000 watts, 2 Co2 generators, 2 Ice Box spot a/c's, and a nutrient reservoir with a 2hp chiller and a 55 gallon reservoir. My 12hp chiller has dual reservoirs and pumps; one for the air handlers and one for the manifold line. Both reservoirs are 30 gallons. I would say 55 gallon to be safe in your case. Also, you only need 1 pump for the entire chiller system. I would recommend a FloTec pump just because they have multiple ports and save you from having to buy seperate pumps for the manifold line and the line to the chiller. I think a 1/2hp will do just fine.

Send me a PM and i'll get you in contact with my distributor. This way he will give you my discounted price on this stuff and ship everything direct to your house. Plus we can talk a little more about your setup and how to get it dialed in.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
The dehumidifier is what seems weird to me. That really shouldn't be running all the time. Are you sure it isn't just on a recirculating setting or that it is maybe just the fan running all the time but the dehumidifier only comes on periodically? As for the a/c; with that much light in that small of a space I DO NOT think it is weird at all. When the lights are on that is entirely too much load for that a/c so it has to work all of the time. A 1000w hood that is air cooled still requires 4,000btu of cooling to offset the heat that it generates in your room. Plus if your ballasts are in the room they add another 2,500btu of cooling per 1000w ballast. And your dehumidifier is adding heat to the room and probably requires around 1,000btu of cooling. Seems to me you are just at the limit with that a/c unit. If you switched the lights to 600w the amount of electricity you would save would actually be greater than the added cost of putting that newer 12,000btu a/c in there. Something to think about.

I have a totally different situation than you. I run water cooled equipment and I have a 5 ton (60,000btu) water cooled air handler in my flower and another for my veg/clone/mother/drying/workspace rooms.


HEY,

ITS IS the DEHUMIDIFIER they put out alot of heat up too 12k BTU worth!!!!! I can cool six lights one 12" Can FAN and a 14k BTU Portable NP, but add a Dehumid and NO Workie!!!


2 lIghts a 4000BTU AC and a single 6" can fan and you should fine.... Dehumidifiers are my BANE!!!

we built a special water cooling coil that one of dehumid blows the exhaust over to cool it, and it still will give problems...

The real trick is to get the AC to hold the Humidity below 50, it can above but the AC needs to do the work....
 

420forme

Active Member
Yeah i've noticed when the AC is on the humidity drops pretty quickly, but I still don't know where all the humidity is comming from
Ooo
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
Most a/c can handle 6 lights worth of plants humidity.. I have found that when people add DEHUMIDIFIERS It causes the plants to TRANSIPRE faster...

Which is a good thing, because it lets you water more often and get better growth, but requires a HUGE A/C to comepnsate or a Dehumid Chiller as I described.

It can get wierd tho when you put in 45 gallons to your plants and in three days you pull out 45 gallons through the dehumid!!!
 

phillipchristian

New Member
Just reuse your dehumidifier water. Keep a reservoir for it and use it for nutrient feedings. The water from your dehumidifier is usually around 20-40ppm anyway. Super clean. I have a 70 pint dehumidifier and it does not generate near 12,000btu of heating. Maybe more like 6,000btu. Plus I just helped setup an 8x8 tent with a 1000w light in it and a 70 pint dehumidifier (overkill but he already had it). The whole tent is cooled by 1 Ice Box on the light and 1 as a spot a/c. His outside temps are 95 during the day and 75-80 at night year round. Adding a dehumidifier does not mean you need a HUGE a/c at all.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
Just reuse your dehumidifier water. Keep a reservoir for it and use it for nutrient feedings. The water from your dehumidifier is usually around 20-40ppm anyway. Super clean. I have a 70 pint dehumidifier and it does not generate near 12,000btu of heating. Maybe more like 6,000btu. Plus I just helped setup an 8x8 tent with a 1000w light in it and a 70 pint dehumidifier (overkill but he already had it). The whole tent is cooled by 1 Ice Box on the light and 1 as a spot a/c. His outside temps are 95 during the day and 75-80 at night year round. Adding a dehumidifier does not mean you need a HUGE a/c at all.
No but SIX Lights plus a DEHUMD equals HUGE AC...

1 light a dehumid and a AC should just about balance....

6k BTU of heat from a dehumidifier IS RIDICULOUS!!! they are not reccomended for anything less than a 4 light setup unless your in like flordia or something where the air is over 60% naturally.

I say avoid dehumidifiers and let the AC do the same work, while a AC can actually dispose of its heat.
 

phillipchristian

New Member
You keep saying an a/c but you don't specify the size. If you are running an air cooled and exhausted hood general calculation is you need 4,000btu per 1000w of lighting. Plus 40btu of cooling for ambient room temps for every sq.ft. and 30btu of cooling for every pint you dehu is rated for. All of this is theoretical anyway. Every room, environment, insulation, etc... is different.

Where are you coming up with your numbers? The OP doesn't have 6 lights. 6,000btu of heating coming off a 70 pint dehumidifier is probably an overstatement. Where you came up with 12,000 I don't know but your numbers are WAY off. There are TONS more places in this world where your grow environment WILL require a dehumidifier; no matter if it's 1 lights or 10. And YES! It would be great to have the A/C do the work but the OP here is in a 5x5 tent. Where is the A/C you are talking about? Plus, there are plenty of places where your A/C can't handle the dehumidification load that you need removed from the air. Plus, a lot of A/C's don't really run during the night cycle and therefore can't dehumidify. That's the sole reason a lot of people have them in the first place.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
a good 65 pint - 70 pint is capable of negating up to 12k BTU of a PORTABLE LOW EFFIECIENY AC... It will not always run at this level.... and not all are made the same... (really just a high end figure because it is possible to go this high, but these new $250 65 PINT DEHUMDIFIERS are just Crazy to Control in grow rooms, and usually mess with a/c systems)

This means that if you have a 12kBTU-14KBTU cool AC and you are running both you are negating some/all the cooling of the a/c....

Believe me, by having PLANTS in a room with these two devices you are providing unlimited Humidity to both devices, and they will just run, run, run....
While the lights although AIR cooled do not remove 100% heat therefore you end up at HIGH 80's while thinking you have done everything perfect...


Again y advice to the OP was to allow the A/c to attempt to do the work and remove his dehumid, thus lowering his temps as he stated he was running hot.

I do not beleieve he 100% requires a Dehum and A/c ESPECIALLY with one light only!!!

If you go past 60% Humidty you can add the dehum back for a day, then remove again... Hope that helps!
 

phillipchristian

New Member
a good 65 pint - 70 pint is capable of negating up to 12k BTU of a PORTABLE LOW EFFIECIENY AC... It will not always run at this level.... and not all are made the same... (really just a high end figure because it is possible to go this high, but these new $250 65 PINT DEHUMDIFIERS are just Crazy to Control in grow rooms, and usually mess with a/c systems)

This means that if you have a 12kBTU-14KBTU cool AC and you are running both you are negating some/all the cooling of the a/c....

Believe me, by having PLANTS in a room with these two devices you are providing unlimited Humidity to both devices, and they will just run, run, run....
While the lights although AIR cooled do not remove 100% heat therefore you end up at HIGH 80's while thinking you have done everything perfect...


Again y advice to the OP was to allow the A/c to attempt to do the work and remove his dehumid, thus lowering his temps as he stated he was running hot.

I do not beleieve he 100% requires a Dehum and A/c ESPECIALLY with one light only!!!!
I don't know what dehumidifier you are using but you are for sure the only one in the owrl who has one.

First off, NO 70 pint dehumidifier produces or negates the 12,000btu of cooling in a room. You are giving the OP just plain incorrect advice. Also, air which is at a lower relative humidity is easier for your A/C to cool so adding a dehumidifier actually reduces the load on your A/C. I agree, portable A/C's are very inefficient; especially how the OP is using it. He is probably exhausting the hot air from the A/C right back into the tent when it should be exhausted out of the tent. This has NOTHING to do with the dehumidifier. The reason they are probably running non stop is because the A/C is being exhausted back into the tent. And how can you say that he does not require a dehumidifier? Most portable (if not all) A/C's have little to no dehumidification because they cannot be drained. Plus you have NO idea where he lives or where the tents are in the house. Maybe they are in the basement of a house in Ohio where from May till September it is 65-70% humidity just in the basement. I think your comments are incorrect but everyone is entitled to theri opinion. I am a real estate developer and I build high end homes for a living. I have tons of experience with A/C units and dehumidifiers and you couldn't be more wrong with most of your statements. I have several properties in the tropics (Costa Rica, Panama, Honduras) and we use dehumidifiers in them all of the time. I have put plenty of 70 pint dehumidifiers in rooms with 12,000btu A/C units with no problem whatsoever.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
THE OP stated:

he had a grow room
It was running Hot
1 Light
1 Ac (he didnt mention size)
1 Dehumidifier (Big+ he thought it was really hot for some reason)
Last two devices just keep running running runnning all the time.


I told him:

Dehumdifiers and A/c's can work against each other when provided with unlimited humdity+heat

Try taking away the dehumid once in a while, this allows him to stay sealed and not convert to a intake/exhaust system.

Is better...


AND actually a 70 PINT DEHUM can negate a 12k BTU AC dont believe me fine... Just what I see from 1 light grows to 32 light rooms and weve built them all, and guess what the Dehumidfiers always mess up the logic.

Especially with the advances they are making in dehumidfiers as they were actually not that great until recently however performance was gained but Heat Output has Increased.

Again The biggest Problems occurs with 4 or more lights of extra heat in addition to the Dehumidifier, however as the OP stated he is even having problems.

Also Portable A/C's can be drained and most come with hoses or evap kits.... My Commercial Cool 14BTU removes almost 60 Pints a Day through evap into the hot air exhaust...

Dehumidifiers are last ditch extras that make CGE Rooms hotter... If you cant get the A/C to do the work, then you better be running at 75 because adding that dehum will put you past 80 or worse..

ESPECIALLY in a small tent. How is any of that WRONG ADVICE??? These things put out HEAT and there TWO FUNCTIONS Fight each other...

I get that many growers will continue to use flawed logic because they think there right, but realize that it is possible that less is more sometimes...

Any A/c over 5k BTU should be able to remove all the humdity of one Lights worth of plants... I just dont see why he has to have the DuHUM!!! Its one friggin light and he's running hot...

And I dont get how your expierience owning dehumidfiers in houses qualifys any respect in this situation..... I own like 35 Dehum's in Like 12 Different flower rooms from 6 lights to 32... Do Your "Houses even have GROW LIGHTS buring in them or are you just trying to say that you put dehumdfiers everywhere.. "Who CareS?

GO put a 65 Pint Dehum With A 12k Portable AC oh and 8 LIGHTS and 32 6' Plants... and watch what happens...

The logic is there but your not gonna have alot of fun with your temps as your 12k of cooling will disapeer so fast its not funny.... K

If you are the type of grower who likes to control your temps not accept whatever your dealt, then my advice is for you.
 

phillipchristian

New Member
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yours just happens to be grossly incorrect.

First off, relative humidity is relative humidity. It doesn't matter if it's in my living room or in your grow room. The same principles apply when you are trying to reduce it. Stating that the "logic" is off because there is a dehumidifier in the room is extremely incorrect. Please explain to me how it is that his portable dehumidifier is going to remove moisture from his air efficiently when the air the a/c is passing over it's coil is from the room outside? The reason portable a/c units are inefficient in grow room operations many times is because growers are using them incorrectly in tent applications. A/C's are designed to be recirculating heat pumps...this means they are designed to remove heat from the existing air and recirculate that air. In this situation he is constantly cooling one area and then pushing that air into a closed environment in which the air is then heated again. The a/c never has a chance to "catch up". So, by doing it this way of course the a/c will run all the time. You can moderatly make this more efficient by putting a thermometer from the a/c to the tent but I am not sure too many portable a/c units come with thermostat probes.

I too have had my fair share of grow rooms and have built even more. I currently have 8,000 watts in my flower. I have used dehumidifiers in every grow up I have had over 12 years of growing. From tents to 1500 sq.ft. buildings and I have NEVER seen a dehumidifier negate the cooling of an a/c. I just built a grow tent for a good friend who has a journal on this forum with 1000w of lighting and a Co2 generator. He only has a 6500btu a/c and a 70 pint dehumidifier. His tents are in a tool shed that has no cooling and a tin roof. Temperatures where he is are 95 during the day and 80 at night with 85-90% humidity all year round. So if a 70 pint dehumidifier puts out anywhere close to 12,000btu of heating then why is it that his 8'x8' tent can easily be cooled by 6500btu that is only running 50% of the time? How is it that his other tent with 2,000w of lighting can do the exact same? Both of his dehumidifiers run almost 60-70% of the time because of the severe humidity where we are.

You keep talking about the OP's situation like it is one of your rooms. He doesn't have a mini split on the wall or a portable a/c in the room. His a/c is outside of the room. All of this is beside the point. Running a dehumidifier in a room actually makes an air conditioner more efficient. This is common knowledge to anyone who has built a home or worked with HVAC units. Why do you think they build dehumidifiers into a/c's? It's common sense. The less water in the air the easier it is to cool that air. What you are stating is TOTALLY incorrect.

Here is a link to an HVAC forum (http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=174832) with actual professionals discussing the heating produced by an 90 pint dehumidifier (estimated to be 5,500btu) and the beneficial use of an a/c in conjunction with a dehumidifier. I am sorry but your information is incorrect in almost every aspect here. If you experienced problems with a 70 pint dehumidifier and an a/c unit then they were because of something else and not the dehumidifier.

Stating that "any a/c with 5,000btu of cooling" would be able to remove the humididty from 1,000 watts worth of plants is just ignorant. You have no clue what the grow environment is or what the dehumidification needs are. You are using specific instances in which YOU encountered issues as broad solutions to everyone's problems. The climate control issues for anyone's grow varies depending on 100's of factors.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
Ok 5000 BTU/h Dehumid at 12 hours running on compressor = 60k BTU' HOURSs
8 Lights at 5000BTU with 4000BTU BEING SWEPT AWAY INTO AIR COOLING = 8kBTUx12hours = 96kBTU And thats low because most 1000W will realease far more than 1k BTU's per hour into the rooms.

One 12kBTU HOUR AC That cycles but well say a total of about 120k BTU HOURS of cooling. 156k BTU HOURS oF HEAT with OnLy 120KBTU HOURS OF COOLING...

So If you run at Night and assuming you have NO LOSS/ are using outside air only for air cooling and ac operation you will run 25% hotter than static air and exhaust air or around (70/120) = ~82.5 Degrees iF LUCKY.

You can decrease that a bit with no Insulation... but watch out for a hot day, again your just living with whats given to you...
 

phillipchristian

New Member
Actually, since I am using water cooled air handlers I don't have any dehumidifiers in my flower room anymore. The air handler can actually dehumidify without cooling the room. Plus I have a completely sealed room. Both rows of lights are vented back to the plenum return on the air handler. I had a few extra Ice Boxes lying around so I put them inline after every 2 lights. So in reality the air being fed back to my 5 ton by the lights is only slightly above ambient room temp. My Co2 generators are also water cooled. My 5 ton only works about 15 minutes of every hour. This will change when we add 2-4 more lights to the room. But trust me, I could have that room like meat locker if I wanted to. As of now I am also using ducting from the air handler to cool the workspace area and the electrical room and she still is only running at 50% load.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
Not to mention Portable A/c's also make some heat, ducting in rooms gives off more heat... people dumbly put like 4 lights in a single chain heating each bulb as is goes down, causing crazy hot spots...

also found https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/513512-12-000-btu-enough-sealed.html You make alot of my point in this thread!!!


Even for a 1 light setup you have this scenario with a Dehumidifier.

Dehumid 50-60k BTU HOURS at full blast
LIGHT 1k/BTU PER HOUR = 12k BTU HOURS or more


With a 8k BTU HOUR PORTABLE @ 10 hours run time on compressor 80k BTU Cooling

Your practically at a 0% Margin any problems and your screwed not to mention in sealed systems how hard it is to get a room to catch up/cool off.

I just dont think your getting that being this close on the margins isnt helping the plants, just making a hot sauna enviroment they can live in...
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
Actually, since I am using water cooled air handlers I don't have any dehumidifiers in my flower room anymore. The air handler can actually dehumidify without cooling the room. Plus I have a completely sealed room. Both rows of lights are vented back to the plenum return on the air handler. I had a few extra Ice Boxes lying around so I put them inline after every 2 lights. So in reality the air being fed back to my 5 ton by the lights is only slightly above ambient room temp. My Co2 generators are also water cooled. My 5 ton only works about 15 minutes of every hour. This will change when we add 2-4 more lights to the room. But trust me, I could have that room like meat locker if I wanted to. As of now I am also using ducting from the air handler to cool the workspace area and the electrical room and she still is only running at 50% load.
Sounds BAD ASS!!! I love the sound of that.
 

420forme

Active Member
Let me clear a couple things up. I have 2 lights in this 5x5 tent. They are 1000w, but i'm running them now at 600w. I have a 9000btu portable AC, it sits outside the tent, and is ducted in. The AC exhaust is ducted to outside window. My dehumidifier is only 30l and I can feel the air comming out of it is quite warm. The tent is controlled by chhc4, set at 86' daytime, 74' nighttime. Humidity set at 55. Co2 @ 1500.
I'm gonna try shutting off the dehumidifier for a while and see what happens.
 

nuglets

New Member
there is NO residential dehumidifer that puts out more than 5,000btu of cooling and with the added efficieny gained by your a/c it's basically a wash.
 

420forme

Active Member
Ok so I turned off my dehumidifier for a while and this is what I got. The temp slowly climbed to 86 and 83% humid. Then AC kicked on and dropped it to 83'/71% before it shut off (3' deadband) It seems to hover around 84'/82% for a while then slowly climbs to AC activation point again.
 
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